New Yosemite Valley traffic regs

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overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jul 12, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
Trying to avoid other climbers is my first guess
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 12, 2016 - 01:39pm PT
kev is right in a sense that the Valley is probably best avoided in the summer, if you have that option. However, Cragman's post seems to have come from the same place my initial one did, which is why doesn't there appear to be any effort to accomodate? Yosemite is a city in the summer, but it's run by a bunch of folks who cling to the notion that it's a quaint backwater. The concessions aren't run that way, so why are things like traffic?

Plus, if you read the link that someone posted from the local paper, the park spokesman indicated that the primary reason for the lane changes was to permit tour buses to drop off passengers and that access for emergency vehicles appeared to be secondary. Werner's recollection of only a single instance where emergency access was compromised (for what sounded like an out of state tourist who thought he was having a heart attack) wasn't too persuasive.

At this point, I'm kind of inclined to adopt kev's position and just avoid the place, though John's observation about the lack of an EIR has the lawyer in me sparked.
WBraun

climber
Jul 12, 2016 - 01:42pm PT
single instance where emergency access was compromised

No ...

That was one example.

You seem to want to project to make your arguments hold more water then there is ......
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jul 12, 2016 - 03:34pm PT
I'm not going to throw any opinions about as I really don't believe there's an easy or straightforward answer. Unless it's "a little bit of each of the above"

So on Sat July 2 we came "down" to the Valley after 2 really fine days camping outside the Tioga entrance. We had two 17 year old lads from Bahston visiting and we wanted to show them Real Mountains. They had never been west of the Mississippi.
The previous day I took them up the approach to the North Ridge of North Peak. A lot of sun cupped snow and fast flowing water between lakes. They had a ball. I think. I've never met two less demonstrative kids in my life! Is this due to their leisure time lives largely existing in the virtual world?

So on the 3d Sarah and I took the chance of showing them The Valley. I mean what self respecting kid could go back to his peers and say he'd been in Yosemite and hadn't seen El Cap?
The logjam started at Tioga Pass. It was bumper to bumper from TPR to the pass. Then easy going even through the meadows.
Not even too bad getting into The Valley. At the Bridalveil Valls junction there was a line coming from the Fresno direction. Found a spot to park and hiked up to the falls. Planned to take them around the valley. 30 minutes later we finally arrived at the ElCap Bridge jct (less than 1/2 mile). The rangers had been struggling to keep cars out of the right hand lane even though it was clearly marked. If they had stopped anybody to write them up it would only have made things much worse for those stuck behind. Tour buses and sight seeing wagons went through as quickly as they could.

So tired of making about 1 mile per hour and seeing the folly of our plans, we bailed across El Cap Bridge. After all we still had to get the bloody car out of the Valley. We had the obligatory view and photos of boys in front of El Cap and skedaddled back to the 120 Jct. All went well until we got to the Big Oak Flat entrance. About 1 PM. We had no trouble, after all, we were fleeing the mayhem. But the inbound lane was bumper to bumper and mostly stopped for 4 miles! At least one car had croaked and was pulled off to the non-existent shoulder with hood up.

It is clear that on big holiday weekends, Yosemite capacity cannot meet the demand. From other posts here it appears it also cannot meet demand even on "regular" summer weekends. Even if there were sufficient transit to move people through the valley, that begs the question of how to get all the bloody cars in/out and where to park them?

This is a tough one.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Denver CO
Jul 12, 2016 - 04:47pm PT
Which raises the question, has the NPS filed an environmental impact report for the one-lane road rework? If so, where do I find it? If not, anyone interested in a "private attorney general" suit to enjoin the conversion because they failed to produce an EIR?

That would most likely be the local highway/roads department. I can't tell you the exact name since I'm not californian. In CO it would be called the Dept of Public Works. If the traffic backed up to a state highway, then maybe the state agency would be involved.

If the NPS believes that it has discretion to make these kinds of rules, then I think you would need to exhaust your administrative remedies. You would need to follow whatever internal procedures they've devised for dealing with public complaints, then appeal, just write to the agency head if there seems to be no other procedure. The Dept of Interior has some kind of process for this, although I could not get them to ever respond (on other issues). Then give them a few months to ignore your correspondence, and leave at least one voice mail message for someone, then you can file an APA claim in Federal court.
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Jul 12, 2016 - 05:31pm PT
Kev....those of us that live right outside the Park, sometimes HAVE to travel through it to get anywhere....thus, my post.

Cragman, I'm NOT trying to be a dick hear but I'm gonna call you on the above quote - I believe that you're wrong and here's why. I'm not arguing that whatever happen at Crane flat didn't suck but the OP thread is about the valley proper.

1) You live on the eastside we're talking about the valley. Even if you're passing through from the east side you wouldn't be going through the valley proper where the traffic sh#t show is that this op posted about.

2) If you live in the park off 41 (aka wawonna, yosemite west, etc) you might be screwed IF AN ONLY IF you're driving to the east side on a summer weekend. Chances are you're heading up to the high sierras on the west side so there's no issue.

3) If you live outside the park off 140 you are not affected at all heading to the eastside. You'd drive as if you were heading to Reeds and avoid the valley sh#t show.

4) If you live off the 120 on the west side you have no issues to get anywhere.

Again not trying to be a dick even if I sound like one - I'm pre-apologizing

kev
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Jul 13, 2016 - 10:20am PT
Be happy you can climb in that beautiful park. How come everyone always looks at the negative?
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2016 - 11:07am PT
No ...

That was one example.
Werner, my apologies if I misconstrued your comment. That wasn't my intent. However, that was the only example you provided. I would have guessed that if you had a more compelling one, you would have shared it with us.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Jul 13, 2016 - 12:14pm PT
Thread summarized - whine like baby because 1000's of other schmucks won't get out of your way during busiest time of day at busiest park on planet - and too stupid and lazy to find another option.
aspendougy

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jul 13, 2016 - 12:22pm PT
Just enter and leave the park from 1 a.m. until 4 a.m. in the morning, you will do fine.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jul 13, 2016 - 12:44pm PT
Be happy you can climb in that beautiful park. How come everyone always looks at the negative?

My short answer: Because we don't compare our current situation to a zero starting point. Being able to climb in the Valley at all certainly beats being unable to do so, I doubt any of us faced such an inability. So don't be surprised when, e.g., we don't view the proposed new campgrounds in the Valley plan as an improvement, but a reduction from what existed in 1995, and view that and not zero as a benchmark. Similarly, if we're used to having two lanes of traffic and we now have one, why would anyone expect us to say "Thank goodness we don't have zero?"

If there's any trend in Yosemite Valley, it's been to reduce as many accommodations as possible for people who don't take tour buses or stay with the concessionaire. There were two lanes of traffic (admittedly two-way) on both Northside and Southside drive in 1950, for heaven's sake, and there were large parking places at Happy Isles and the Village, among others, that are gone now. Yes, the annual visitor count is up (although I suspect tour buses have a lot to do with that), but how much of the crowding is due to increased private vehicle traffic, and how much to a conscious decision to make that traffic as inconvenient as possible?

And don't think this doesn't affect climbers and the future of the Park Service. The people arriving by private vehicle are, by and large, ordinary working families whose desire to support the parks depends, in part, on their experience. They can see what's going on -- particularly those with any memory. They know that there were service stations at Camp 4, Yosemite Village, Camp Curry, Chiquapin and now Tuolumne Meadows that are gone and never replaced. They know there used to be many more campsites in the Valley and elsewhere that are gone and never replaced.

And now, they see a road system with half the capacity of what existed 60 years ago. Why should they not conclude that if the NPS wants to declare war against their visitor experience, maybe it's time to declare war against the NPS?

Just to make it clear, I still see the need for access for emergency vehicles, but the impassable traffic jams at the beginning and end of the lane restrictions belie the idea that the lane restrictions help in that matter. Someone needs to re-think the Valley traffic patterns, and that probably includes, sad to say, new infrastructure. Otherwise, I can think of few better ways to alienate the public.

John
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Jul 13, 2016 - 02:51pm PT
Man, getting rid of the cars and a Disneyland style tram around the park would be an awesome improvement.

Car only permits if you have a campsite or lodging reservation.

But it would suck for those pre-dawn starts for big climbing objectives.... hard to figure out how to make it all work.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jul 13, 2016 - 03:06pm PT
hard to figure out how to make it all work.

I'd start by making more campsites available to cut down on the day use traffic.

John
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 13, 2016 - 03:11pm PT
Traffic, camping, the general quality of life in the Valley...it's not going to get any better, to the contrary, a downward spiral seems inevitable.
gstock

climber
Yosemite Valley
Jul 14, 2016 - 11:48am PT
JE, what time period should the development benchmark be set at?




hellroaring

Trad climber
San Francisco
Jul 15, 2016 - 09:39am PT
I guess I was lucky, but I drove into the valley on July 4th for 5 days of camping with the family, with some pre planning we had a hassle free trip: drove in late afternoon, all the gridlock was headed out. When we left we drove out early in the AM. Bringing 6 bikes was a pain but it was worth it. Parked the car at the campsite & never used it the whole time we were there. Saw lots of people stuck in cars but we weren't one of them. And finally we brought all our food, coffee, beer, etc. The only time I stood in a line was to get ice for the coolers. It was 5 days of biking, hiking, picnics, and swimming in the river. All in one of the most beautiful places on earth. It was really nice!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 15, 2016 - 10:04am PT
GOP Platform Proposes To Get Rid Of National Parks And National Forests

Simple solution to parking problem, remove the attraction......
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jul 15, 2016 - 10:08am PT
"Car only permits if you have a campsite or lodging reservation"

If you're staying in a hotel, you have no more need for a car than many day users.
John M

climber
Jul 15, 2016 - 10:31am PT
Imagine in 10 or 20 years when 5 million people a year visit Yosemite. It will be gridlock for 5 months of the year.

cars make life easier. I have only a few problems with people using autos. Its when demand exceeds a limited supply, that we have problems.

the park added to the limited supply of parking by closing parking spots.

The only solution that I can see is to limit the number of autos allowed into the park. They in part do that by having limited entrance stations. But that just creates long lines. Once you limit the number of autos in the park, then most traffic issues disappear.

Half reservations and half first come first served is my solution. Plus they could have outside the park parking lots with shuttles into the park. And then add more valley shuttles.

by allowing autos into the park up to a certain point which would have to be determined, they would reduce the size of outside parking areas needed.

The last study I saw on how many buses they would need to service Yosemite if no auto were allowed, or only those with camping and hotel reservations, it was over 450.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 15, 2016 - 02:20pm PT
No good answers, glad I am pretty much finished climbing there. A seven mile long valley the whole world wants to see. A lottery system, or similar, is inevitable somewhere down the road.
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