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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Apr 23, 2016 - 08:13am PT
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For some, it seems, chalk might be ceremonial.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Apr 23, 2016 - 08:27am PT
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When your byotch of a teacher is making you write sentences
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 23, 2016 - 02:26pm PT
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95% of chalk use is psychological.
Everytime I take a kid on an FA they always arrive at the belay shocked - shocked - at the necessity of actually watching the leader's movements on a pitch. They invariably say "I've never climbed a pitch without chalk on it before and didn't know what to do or where to go!". So as bad as the psychological crutch of dipping is, the cumulative effect over years of unconsciously climbing-by-the-dots is even more insidious.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Apr 23, 2016 - 04:08pm PT
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^^^Agreed.
Back in the '70s in Arizona there were guys putting up 5.11x and 5.12. And, that was in EBs, swamis, hexes, and no chalk.
I think Bernd Arnold has put up 5.13 without chalk (and cams, nuts, and shoes for that matter).
We commodify the climbing experience too much methinks - we confuse a larger number with a better experience.
There is a certain beauty of climbing without it - though I get the fun and coolness factor of climbing with it and have done that, too. Seems like it helps in The Valley, especially the smoothed out boulders around Camp 4 and in the greasy flare fests.
The playground just looks better kept without it.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Apr 23, 2016 - 04:21pm PT
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95% of chalk use is psychological
IMO not true. Depends upon the climber, the rock, the humidity, the temperature. I recall trying to climb at Devils Lake in the summer of 1959, with the slick rock, the heat, and the humidity. Some climbers have no need of chalk if their hands don't sweat, but I'm not one of them and chalk was essential for me. Maybe not for Joe or Mark.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 23, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
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Not sure DL is a good example given that rubber, skin andr chalk don't really stick to that sh#t.
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couchmaster
climber
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Apr 23, 2016 - 06:23pm PT
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Randisi said, quote: "I love it when climbers who have hands that don't sweat much criticize those whose hands do."
Really? You love that?
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Apr 24, 2016 - 10:18am PT
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Chalk, if not dusted on too heavily, improves most people's grip. Some folks with especially dry hands might not see much benefit. Chalk also prevents a build-up of skin oils on holds, which in popular areas would probably become extremely greasy without chalk. Personally, I think this is the primary and best reason for chalk use.
Dusted on heavily as most climbers seem to do, chalk might actually decrease grip, while creating horrible white blotches all over the rock. The esthetic effects have been devastating in some areas, and the marking of the way seriously diminishes the role of uncertainty in climbing challenge.
I wouldn't say chalk use is psychological so much as habitual. Dipping into the bag is an essentially unconscious tic without purpose and probably in many cases without actual benefit. But sometimes it is a component of a calming routine, or a preparation routine for a big effort, and in that sense might be viewed as psychological, although the psychology involved is more ritualistic than based on any expectation of higher grip strength.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Apr 24, 2016 - 11:55am PT
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Rich, Your advocating the chalk ball seems like a good compromise and lessens the visual impact and loss of discovery.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Apr 24, 2016 - 01:49pm PT
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It might interest you to know a few factiods about how it all started. In my gymnastics class at Ga Tech in the fall of 1954 the 20 foot rope climb was still a legitimate event. The heavy natural fiber rope would become unclimbable with bodily oils were climbers to avoid the chalk conveniently placed close by. If anyone tried this he would be shouted off and required to chalk up.
In the mid 1950s when I would go up on a climb in the Tetons, like the Jenson or the Southwest Ridge on Symmetry Spire, I would usually wear a flannel shirt with a breast pocket where I would slip a small block of chalk, using it occasionally. On the boulders at Jenny Lake the smooth pegmatite was much easier to climb on with a little chalk, as was the warm limestone at Blacktail Butte. Again, mostly a small block carried or set on a nearby rock.
Before I brought chalk to the scene at Jenny Lake, the guides and rangers would pat their hands in the forest duff before trying a boulder problem. In the Needles, Jan and Herb Conn would would use pine cone dust for this purpose. In Europe Pierre Allain and other Bleusards used resin - probably for footholds. I suspect the pioneers of the sport of rock climbing in the 1880s had some little tricks as well, although I never came across that in my historical research.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Apr 24, 2016 - 06:22pm PT
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I had the same experience as Jon with a gym climbing rope, and it forms the basis of my claim that not using chalk would make the rock greasy.
I used gym climbing ropes regularly for years at the West Side Y in NYC and the gym at SUNY New Paltz. They were frequently used and were usually impossible to climb the way I was doing it; skin oils deposited by many users made them too slippery. The first thing I had to do was to climb the ordinary hand over hand way to the top, and then, using my feet, slowly descend, chalking every inch of the rope on the way down. Only after that could I do my workout.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
Of THIS World (Planet Earth)
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Apr 25, 2016 - 06:21pm PT
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Pouring rain.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Apr 25, 2016 - 09:00pm PT
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I recall working out on a chinup/highbar in a park back in the 70s. I think I was doing one arm chin-ups. I remember putting chalk on my hands at one point and the grip was so good I ripped the skin off my palm or palms.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 26, 2016 - 01:08am PT
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I would expect nothing less than a rousing defense of chalk, despite the fact it is estimated that the incidence of palmar hyperhidrosis is way less than 5% of the population of the United States. Go way out and give it 20% have issues or, hell, let's get way out on a plank and say 50% - that's still a matter of a serious addiction.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Apr 26, 2016 - 08:18am PT
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been using a chalk ball for years. helps to reduce the use as someone else mentioned and no more chalk dumps
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Apr 26, 2016 - 11:11am PT
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Back in the '70s in Arizona there were guys putting up 5.11x and 5.12. And, that was in EBs, swamis, hexes, and no chalk.
Well, I'm afraid you're going to have to provide me with the names of those climbers and routes before I'll believe that. Most of the hard-core AZ climbers I know certainly used chalk back in the day.
Curt
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Apr 26, 2016 - 11:13am PT
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I would expect nothing less than a rousing defense of chalk, despite the fact it is estimated that the incidence of palmar hyperhidrosis is way less than 5% of the population of the United States. Go way out and give it 20% have issues or, hell, let's get way out on a plank and say 50% - that's still a matter of a serious addiction.
Actually, I think the "rousing defense of chalk" probably comes from the fact that it works so well.
Curt
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Apr 26, 2016 - 12:26pm PT
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Curious, does anyone here not use chalk when they go to a climbing gym?
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Apr 26, 2016 - 12:27pm PT
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Not that you were asking me sir but I don't go to climbing gyms
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Apr 26, 2016 - 01:04pm PT
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Well, I'm afraid you're going to have to provide me with the names of those climbers and routes before I'll believe that. Most of the hard-core AZ climbers I know certainly used chalk back in the day
Steve Grossman and Paul Davidson. There were others roughly in that range if the pro was good, but these guys were standouts.
Steve is from Tucson and he was really passionate about not using chalk. The crews from Prescott and especially Flagstaff were carrying the flame for that super clean style. A lot of that was due to inspiration from Scott Baxter, the pater prima of the Syndicato Granitica.
Routes of 5.11x - Lucky goes to the Creamery, Coherent Excitation,...there are more, but they don't come to mind at hand.
I could do well protected 5.11 and "easy" 5.12 in that style on a good day. None of that X stuff for me unless it was 5.5!
Steve and Paul were so way out of my league....
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