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johnr9q
Sport climber
Sacramento, Ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 27, 2016 - 07:06am PT
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I started a thread a while back asking the question: Is climbing the best training for climbing http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2779166&msg=2779819#msg2779819 but it quickly went to hell. I even developed a poll. In the past I have done a number of weight lifting, pulling, pushing, machines, hangboarding etc to improve my climbing and the results were dismal. I was very dedicated and worked them for at least 2 months. I rested at least one day between each workout session. One of the programs was even supervised by a well known climber who is also a Personal Trainer. About 2 months ago, I started a program where I climb hard, doing some climbs at my limit, 3 days a week either in the gym or, preferably, outdoors. I am now climbing harder than I ever have. I don't think it makes any difference but I am 71 years old. For me, anyway, the results are in, climbing is the best training for climbing.
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nathanael
climber
CA
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May 27, 2016 - 07:38am PT
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Do you even lift?
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JohnnyG
climber
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May 27, 2016 - 07:52am PT
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I would have swore by the thread title that this was going to be a Donini creation.
same age group ;-)
but very useful info nonetheless
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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May 27, 2016 - 08:14am PT
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Mostly true for the easier grades, less so maybe lower 12 and up. If you're a lardass, then losing weight is going to help the most.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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May 27, 2016 - 08:43am PT
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It the most fun way to train
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 27, 2016 - 08:46am PT
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I'm an old lard ass currently. The strongest I ever got for climbing was from bouldering, no feet rope climbing, dips, and swings and plyos on monkey bars. The trick on the rope is to do longer and longer reaches and one arm lock offs while reaching.
But, I was climbing six days a week, too, then....
Have fun!
Yeah, just climbing is the best....
....if you're can do it enough.
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johnr9q
Sport climber
Sacramento, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2016 - 08:55am PT
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fivethirty: I forgot to include hangboarding but edited my original post to add that because it is was an important part of my training - but no more
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Coach37
Social climber
Philly
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May 27, 2016 - 09:12am PT
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I believe it is easier to get strong by doing other things like hangboarding and targeted lifting, than by random climbing. But you need climbing time to be able to apply that strength and some things like 'thumb-muscle' strength for long stretches of jamming is difficult to train without climbing.
Hangboarding aslso doesn't help you engage the entire kinetic chain in a way that helps climbing, but it will get your fingers, and to some extent your back and shoulders, very strong.
After each period of hangboarding, usually a month in duration, I am measurably stronger, but not bouldering any harder until I've had about three bouldering sessions. Climbing involves a different kind of 'try hard', and getting the right body parts to fire at the right time, like having your core tighten in timing with the move.
My biggest jumps in ability have come from hangboaring. So my answer is that you need both. I even noticed a big jump in my slab ability from getting stronger in my core. But I need regular outdoor climbing to coordinate the movement, not overgrip holds, and establish good pacing and a relaxed mental state. For me, on the pure physical end, there are better and safer ways to get strong that 'just climbing'.
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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May 27, 2016 - 09:56am PT
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You can't prescribe one thing for everyone at a point in time.
^^^^this^^^^
And because of that, you can't McTrain, you actually have to work out the recipe that works/fits you. This is the fun part!
However there are 2 endeavors that would work for everyone regardless of age, genes and the temporal element...
*Stretching
*Resting
Some folks seem forget how important resting is to any regimine, at least that is my experience with a lot of my friends that train for their funness.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 27, 2016 - 10:12am PT
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One hand lock offs while rope climbing get your hands really strong and train your hands for jamming strength. Standard rope size is 1 1/2" and if you can one hand lock off on 2" you're a beast. You can also do chin ups while hanging onto towels looped over the top of the bar.
Gets your whole hand stronger, trains for open hand hangs, and is easy on your hands and fingers.
This is the king of grip training for competition jujitsu. Those guys have serious grip strength.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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May 27, 2016 - 12:24pm PT
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FYI:
Competitive Rope Climbing
I discovered over fifty years ago, however, it's not a very good training device for rock climbing. Does very little for the fingers, for instance. And speed climbing became a matter of skill vs strength. Rgold had somewhat different experiences.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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May 27, 2016 - 12:49pm PT
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Maybe not all that different. I trained for strength, not speed, and ended up being able to climb one arm at a time, doing non-ballistic one-arm pullups on each arm and locking off at the top of each pull. This did involve quite a lot of gripping, but I can't say the increased grip strength had any climbing carry-over.
Having a super-solid lockoff made it possible, occasionally, to place gear at full reach on overhangs and ceilings, but didn't really seem to add that much to actual climbing, where technique is far more important and a simple dead-point substitutes for the lock-off most of the time.
All in all, if you are pressed for time and want to do a small number of exercises away from rock, rope-climbing is one of the best, and I think considerably better than a bachar ladder.
As for certain types of lifting, I think its value increases as the genre becomes more and more alpine, big wall, and expeditionary. For pure rock climbing and sport climbing in particular, I doubt it is the best thing to do with your exercise time.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 27, 2016 - 01:04pm PT
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Climbing requires both specific types of strength and skill. Certain types of exercise build strength but only climbing hones the skill. Pros in skill sports like tennis and golf spend the majority of their time hitting the ball to hone their skill.
To optimize your climbing I believe that you both need to do specific exercises and climb with the emphasis on the climbing.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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May 27, 2016 - 01:04pm PT
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Climbing intelligently is the best training for climbing.
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ecdh
climber
the east
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May 27, 2016 - 02:22pm PT
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I agree for regular rock climbing and probably bouldering. Its pretty straightforward stuff really until it gets very hard - as shown by the gullich model.
At a basic level with anything just doing it beats diversions to other stuff. Climbings not special in that.
Other sorts of climbing like alpine, ice, walls etc seem better trained by adding other stuff. Id even call regular rock part of the training for that.
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Rolfr
Trad climber
La Quinta and Penticton BC
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May 27, 2016 - 08:13pm PT
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Periodic sport specific climbing. structured Indoor bouldering is the best training for climbing, But that doesnt train the head space. ONLY being on the sharp end of the rope trains your head
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Hoots
climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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May 27, 2016 - 08:25pm PT
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True, though like mentioned above the real gains from a well thought out training regimen show up in alpine climbing, etc.
I have found that I have been able to climb WAY harder, when I don't solely go out and do one kind of climbing. Little bouldering here and there, clip some bolts, ride the mountain bike for endurance, maybe a wall or alpine route... All leads to better overall performance.
I did like Steve House's book, and used it to form some training regimens, but it is easy to over train if you're not factoring in the climbing you are already doing, so I consistently overdid it.
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