Discussion Topic |
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10b4me
Trad climber
California
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 14, 2006 - 01:54pm PT
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Yosemite National Park (CA)
Fatal Fall From Half Dome
On about 1:30 p.m. on Wednesday, November 8th, Valley District rangers, SAR personnel and trail crew members responded to vague cell phone reports that there’d been a fall with serious injury from the Half Dome cables (in October, the cable hand lines are laid down on the rock and the stanchions which hold the cables up are removed to prevent them from being damaged by avalanches). Responding personnel had to hike up the nine miles of trail and the slab approach to the northwest face due to marginal flying conditions. Orders were placed for several helicopters; two eventually made it into the Valley but were unable to transport crews to the site of the accident due to low clouds surrounding the dome. The medical hasty team arrived on scene at 5 p.m. and found the body of Emily Sandall, a 25-year-old New Mexico resident and graduate of the University of Montana, at a spot about 300 feet below the base of the cables. According to her hiking partner, Sandall was descending the cables when she slipped on the wet rock, lost her grip on the cable, and slid out of sight. Her body was flown out by long line under a helicopter the following day. [Submitted by Leslie Reynolds, Valley District Ranger]
my condolences to her friends and family
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 14, 2006 - 02:12pm PT
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I hate seeing this stuff.
When we build roads into the mountains and canyons just for the view, and make outdoor adventure culturally heroic it seems inevitable that enthusiastic people become overextended with tragic results.
I almost think there should be mandatory orientation for a backcountry permit, but what would REALLY help is to hold people financially reponsible for rescue costs. People would behave far more conservatively if their OWN wallets were on the line.
Werner, ball park, what were the costs of this recovery?
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maculated
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Nov 14, 2006 - 02:14pm PT
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I am surprised it doesn't happen more often.
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Doug Hemken
climber
Madison, WI
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Nov 14, 2006 - 02:38pm PT
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Ron wrote:
"but what would REALLY help is to hold people financially responsible for rescue costs"
Has this approach reduced the number of highway accidents and ER visits? So people have fewer accidents in states where insurance rates are higher? Or are you suggesting that we do away with the concept of "insurance" altogether?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Nov 14, 2006 - 02:43pm PT
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very sad, my condolences.
ron, i doubt emily really gives a sh#t at this point what the cost is.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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Nov 14, 2006 - 02:51pm PT
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My heartfelt condolences to the family of the deceased.
There aren't always answers Ron.
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pda2540
climber
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Nov 14, 2006 - 02:51pm PT
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This is a person who gave a lot more than she took from society. I do not think the cost of this is even worthy of discussion.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Nov 14, 2006 - 02:56pm PT
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Anybody can slip.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 14, 2006 - 03:00pm PT
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Doug, I said not one word against insurance, a business that earns me money, but the premiums still come out of our wallets.
Too bad people don't seem to appreciate that fact.
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Anastasia
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Nov 14, 2006 - 03:19pm PT
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Condolences...
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reddirt
climber
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Nov 14, 2006 - 03:39pm PT
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"Werner, ball park, what were the costs of this recovery?"
did someone really pose this question?
was this question asked when Todd Skinner fell?
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
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Nov 14, 2006 - 03:49pm PT
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No matter how many rules we are still gonna die... All of us.
I am sad for her family, and I am happy she was able to see the view off the dome at such a pretty time of year.
The world is a great place when people do what the WANT to do when they WANT to it.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Nov 14, 2006 - 04:00pm PT
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I was coming down the cables after the regular route and this tourist was frozen with fear halfway down. It seems everytime I do the cables I am helping someone.
I find the cable scary.
JDF
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couchmaster
climber
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Nov 14, 2006 - 04:14pm PT
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"did someone really pose this question?
was this question asked when Todd Skinner fell?'
The correct framing of that question should be "How many times does this get noted on every other accident"?
BTW, maybe not the best place to put the question, but it is very worthy of discussion IMO.
I'm sure that all of us feel bad to hear of this kind of a thing anytime or anyplace.
Climb safe
Bill
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coloclimber
Big Wall climber
colorado springs
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Nov 14, 2006 - 04:46pm PT
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Ron, sometimes even the best fall or make a mistake or something else that costs them their life. If we stopped to think, we have all taken calculated risks that could have gotten us killed, but we made it out ok. This doesn't always happen. To presume that Emily should not have been where she was is an insult to her and her family. This statement does not make any mention of fact that might clue us in. I consider myself very compentent in the BC. But I slip once and a while, I've just been lucky enough to not slip with any real fall potential.
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G_Gnome
Boulder climber
Sick Midget Land
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Nov 14, 2006 - 05:47pm PT
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My condolences to all concerned.
Usually these 'cost estimates' are not real numbers anyway. Most rescues are by people who are being paid to be on the job and they are often using exactly the same resources when training as they do when participating in a rescue. So chances are this rescue didn't 'cost' anything that wasn't already spent.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 14, 2006 - 06:15pm PT
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Wrong ......
The costs go way up for the use of helicopters and it becomes a "major incident" on the accounting scale. I don't know the actual costs.
This was actually the second time this happened within a month or so except the first one the guy who slipped stopped on a flake and was able to hang on until a SAR response secured him. He basically came out pretty good and just suffered minor hypothermia due to inclement weather while waiting for his rescue response. It was raining at the time also.
The girl fell much farther and and died due to her injuries from her fall. It was raining during this incident also.
5.10 rubber on someones soles would have been a contributing factor for better adhesion on wet slabs. They work fairly good on wet rock. Her shoe soles were most likely poor for wet rock. Most of you know how poor non sticky rubber on wet slabs is, almost equivalent to wearing roller skates.
Very sad accident and everyone felt bad about her unfortunate fate.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 14, 2006 - 06:15pm PT
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People are right.
I chose the wrong place for this, but it is worthy of discussion.
Foremost it was a tragedy, but the point is it also constitutes one of the hidden costs of the adrenaline addiction we deem to admire.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Nov 14, 2006 - 06:40pm PT
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The friends and family of Emily Sandall have my condolences.
When the cables are "down", some segments go off the "beaten path" and the rock there is not nearly as polished and slippery as the rock on the path. At least that was my experience. Stepping back from regular rock back onto the polished rock of the path, I noticed a big difference, even with rock shoes. I can only imagine how much more slippery it would be when wet. The wet cable was probably slippery also.
Edit: This could happen to anyone. I think most people who go up the cables when they are "down" appreciate the risks and I hope the answer isn't just to ban climbing the cables in the off-season. If anything the least bit risky was banned, we wouldn't be able to climb anymore. We climb because the rewards are more then commensurate with the risks.
2nd Edit:
"I crawl through the corn, like a child
which in a way is who I am in the fields
the roots of who I am--woven in the earth and its rhythms"
 Emily Sandall, http://www.talkingleaves.org/taxonomy/term/131
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tonym
climber
Oklahoma
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Nov 14, 2006 - 07:40pm PT
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Comments about costs of a rescue during this time and on this thread are whacked to say the least. Who cares about costs someone has just died get a grip!
My condolences to Emily's family and friends.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 14, 2006 - 07:43pm PT
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I think deleting posts is usually bogus.
I said it. I regret it . Get over it.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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Nov 14, 2006 - 07:48pm PT
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I get skeered coming down those cables when the stancions are up.
RIP
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 14, 2006 - 08:18pm PT
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Our local version is Angel's Landing.
There are signs posted, but wintery conditions can render it a very serious proposition.
Still, the last three fatalities I heard of were in fair, warm weather.
Another element I haven't heard discussed is approach committment that can obviate the minor perception of risk.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 14, 2006 - 09:31pm PT
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Sounds like the somebody of the sort the world could use more of.
I hate to hear of this.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Nov 14, 2006 - 09:45pm PT
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Angels Landing and Half Dome get my vote for top two hikes in North America.
I watched my friend die of cancer last week.
JDF
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Indianclimber
climber
Las Vegas
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Nov 14, 2006 - 11:31pm PT
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Angels is better to do with no chains they throw of your balance.
Most of the tourists dont have the brains to pick a spot to pass
and are pushing past eachother Scary..
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 14, 2006 - 11:42pm PT
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True.
I did it recently and people stopped, expecting to be passed at the WORST possible spots instead of using half a brain.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 14, 2006 - 11:47pm PT
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Sorry to hear about Emily. Even though she wasn't on a technical climbing route, I'm sure she had to summon the courage and fitness to get up Half Dome.
In fact, I bet there is a lot more courage that has to be summoned a the base ofhte cables than at the base of the NW Face.
I grateful that we still have the opportunity to go on trails where a mistake can obviously cost us our lives I do it. Emily did it. It makes our lives richer and brighter. It's sad that some of us lose the bet now and then, but that's the price we pay. Let's keep paying it.
Love and Respect to those who will miss Emily as she goes on the next great adventure.
Karl
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Nov 15, 2006 - 01:46pm PT
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http://www.couchsurfing.com/profile.html?id=98CXD5
Current Mission: "To have intention behind what I do."
Personal Description
I am an adventurer. I try to live simply and consiously, and enjoy the company of those I am around. I am playful, messy, love creative expression and exploring.
Interests
Backpacking, hiking, sustainable living, dancing, human rights issues, farming, playing guitar, singing, writing
Music, Movies, Books
Music, anything with a lively tune for stomping around. Movies, my favorite is Amelie and the Newsies. Books....it's been awhile..but really like Frank McCourt's books.
Types of People I Enjoy
Down to earth, genuine people. Also, enjoy folks with quirks and a sense of wonder.
Personal Philosophy
I hope to live my life in a way that allows others, the land, the natural world to breathe a little easier.
One Amazing Thing I've Seen or Done
I've seen the Bitterroot Wilderness on fire, as I wandered through it for 24 days.
References
Fun
From MIGHTY_ME_MOUSE Jul 19, 2006
Emily Sandall is a very fun, vibrant and easy going person. She tells great stories and lives life in a full and good way. I always enjoy myself when she is around and know that she gets along with almost all people.
Mountain Dog
From LUKEVANHELDEN Jul 19, 2006
Yes, Emily can be seen atop many a mountain. She lives there mostly. For a special treat, Emily made her famous coffee cake. Also a fan of tricks, we set up a scavenger hunt for a few friends. It ended up with Bridget chasing us in her car as we escaped after leaving a note by her door. Emily will be a great guest.
Bailando Salsa and Batucada
From PUNCHTEXANO Jul 19, 2006
during the carnival it was great to see how much energy she has while she was dancing salsa and batucada!!! she is very nice, and she likes to eat huge empanadas!!! cheers Emily!!
Fun, funny, friendly
From MYALINO Jul 19, 2006
Emily is an amazingly interesting, compassionate, funny, and sincere person. She has lots of great adventure stories to tell. If you come her way she will also sing you beautiful songs and lullabys. I couchsurf with Emily everynight I get a chance.
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gazela
Boulder climber
Albuquerque, NM
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Nov 16, 2006 - 12:33am PT
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Emily was a close friend of my friend Rod's daughter Jenny, and she had just sung and played guitar at Jenny's wedding reception at my in-laws' house in Albuquerque about a week before the accident. Needless to say, Rod's entire family was distraught at the news of Emily's death.
I don't know if I'll ever go to Yosemite, but if I do, I think I'll steer clear of Half Dome. I hiked to the top of Angel's Landing in Zion a few years back, and my acrophobia/vertigo had me clutching the chains all the way up and back.
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ricardo
Gym climber
San Francisco, CA
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Nov 16, 2006 - 01:30pm PT
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wow! .. sad story ..
.. the cables also spook me ... last time i descended them (in rock shoes and good weather) -- i clipped a runner to the steel cable .. dont feel so bad about doing that now ..
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Rock!...oopsie.
Trad climber
pitch above you
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Nov 16, 2006 - 01:44pm PT
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ricardo-
better than nothing, but unless you are not moving very fast by the time the biner and runner hit a stanchion you are gonna be in for a nasty stop at best (think internal organ damage) or a busted biner and a continuation of the ride at worst.
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menoge
climber
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Nov 22, 2006 - 09:06pm PT
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Others have said it, but asking about the cost of this rescue was incredibly inappropriate and, due to the subject of this particular forum, disrespectful. To open a discussion about the high costs of rescues somewhere else on this website is legitimate, but to pose the question "Werner, ball park, what were the costs of this recovery?" to be publicly displayed under a news story called "Fatal Fall from Half Dome" was tasteless.
Also, since Emily Sandall was my friend, I feel compelled to set the record straight. This was not a case of "enthusiastic people becoming overextended with tragic results;" she has been leading trips for years as an Outward Bound instructor and for a wilderness tripping camp for teenagers (where I worked with her). She hiked for a living and taught countless people how to be safe in the backcountry. She was a professional with proven judgment and skills but that's just the point: when it comes down to it, sometimes none of that matters - it could happen to anyone. Anyone can slip.
Don't assume that people are dumb tourists who don't know what they're doing, or that a "mandatory orientation for backcountry permits" or even people "behaving conservatively" could have prevented this accident - sometimes there aren't any answers. Maybe there were contributing factors in this case, or maybe there weren't and it was just a nonsensical act of nature - either way, it was an accident and a tragedy where questions of money and experience are both irrelevant.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 22, 2006 - 09:48pm PT
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I have gotten a raft of sh#t for my first post, not only on this thread but in emails from graniteclimber as well.
Let me clarify that my first post was not intended to suggest that cost considerations should supercede consideration of the tragic nature of this incident.
Rather I was suggesting that we ALL might act more carefully if we look in depth at the potential comsequences of our actions.
For graniteclimber to write me (and I quote):
"As for the chopper crew, no one is holding a gun to their heads. If they don't want to take the risk, they should work in another profession. Besides longlining out a body is not urgent and should not involve particularly risky flying."
I think that strikes me as an attitude both cavalier and callous.
As if to underscore this yesterday here in Utah a SAR chopper searching for a missing woman crashed in the Green River with two on board. Both were critically injured. The pilot, Brian Grayson, from Reno has died.
edit; apparently I was misinformed. It was the passenger by the name of Orr who is deceased.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Nov 22, 2006 - 11:06pm PT
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EDIT: My response to Ron Piton has been moved to the "congrats" thread: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=284684&f=0&b=0
It has been pointed out, correctly, that by responding to Piton Ron here I was only taking this thread further down a path that I don't think is appropriate.
Again, the family and friends have my condolences. I'm ashamed and embarrassed that they have to see this and the rest of the thread.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 22, 2006 - 11:35pm PT
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Thank you so much for clearing that up.
Happy Thanksgiving.
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marky
climber
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Nov 23, 2006 - 02:51am PT
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that one guy's "nonconfrontational" email to piton ron was lame; lamer still was posting the back-and-forth here.
But I was entertatined, so thanks for posting. And happy thanksgiving
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Nov 23, 2006 - 11:06am PT
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I agree with Ronbo. Deleting is lame.
Leaving it and making amends is much better, and I think any frineds or relatives would appreciate the apology more than a deletion.
Anyone can screw up. That poor girl did. Ronbo did. Quite a few Ronbo castigators did. It's all sad.
At the very least Ronbo came right out with a flat, unqualified apology, and said he was wrong. I'll put more stock in Ronbo than in his attackers.
I still love ya Ronbo, although, I must admit, I'm having baked lizard for Thanksgiving!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 23, 2006 - 11:54am PT
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That's not what I heard Dirt. Rumor is that everything you produce is half baked!
Actually, when Junior gets feisty I show him my lizardskin wallet and belt and that usually straightens him out.
Truth is, the local indians used to consider chuckawalla a delicasy, but they are largely herbivorous while Junior is a hardcore carnivore likely making him tough and bad tasting.
Dontcha like the way GC wants me to delete then posts the whole mess. I don't think that it shows his comments in fairer light but I understand. He is angry with the tragic news and feels that I was criticizing his friend.
My condolences to the deceased's family. Hopefully some good can come of this if others benefit from knowlege of the hazards.
This has been a rough season. Already I've lost three friends. We should focus more on making what time we have left more worthwhile.
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David Nelson
climber
San Francisco
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Nov 23, 2006 - 12:03pm PT
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I agree with Ricardo, and used a runner when I went down the cables after the Regular Route. I had a pack on, lots of gear, a bit tired and rushed due to lightning strikes in the distance. A bit of safety on the downclimb seemed like a good idea at the time, still does. You must might give it a thought if you are descending, as a single slip (rare as it might be)can be the end.
Truely sorry about Emily.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 23, 2006 - 12:13pm PT
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Firstly, condolences to the young lady’s family and friends.
Secondly, I agree, deleting threads is lame. If you have written something that in hindsight perhaps you shouldn’t have or regret, there are other ways of dealing with it. When you delete a thread that other posters are referring to, it can be, confusing, for better lack of a term, to see what people are talking about.
There have been several times, especially when I first came on this forum, that I have regretted writing something (for example, castigating posters who like guns and starting a small flame war until I backed off, but I didn’t delete) but I don’t mind wearing egg on my face, as I am only human and as such, prone to mistakes.
Thirdly, I didn’t take Ron’s post to be callous or insensitive, just inquisitive. Was in appropriate on a thread like this one? I won’t judge that, if some of you want to that’s your choice.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 23, 2006 - 02:46pm PT
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Blinny, Sue Crawford? I knew her, if it is the same Sue that hung out in Cedar Ridge/Twaine Harte/Crystal Falls with Pam Falkenstein (née Moran), and I think went out with Dale Bard for a while.
Is that the same Sue? I think her surname was Crawford, but I could be wrong (senile dementia?).
Jaysus Werner, I don't think I have ever seen the cables as crowded as some of those pix on Google.
EDIT
No I am thinking of Sue Wilson, I think.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 23, 2006 - 02:49pm PT
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Now I am confused if it was Crawford or Wilson. If it is the same Sue I climbed with her several times, and she use to hang out in Cedar Ridge, at the time going out with a mate of Fiddler's, Keating's and mine - Steve Matthews - who owned the house we lived in. I gave Sue a lift down to the Bay Area several times, if I recall the south Bay (Milipitas, or somewhere like that, that is, if I recall correctly).
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landcruiserbob
Trad climber
the ville, colorado
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Nov 23, 2006 - 03:05pm PT
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I've never seen the cables that crowded. Holy crap that is a nightmare waiting to happen.I have run into maybe 10 people on them. I'm sure NPS has a 20 person evacuation plan figured out because one lightning strike could wipe out a bunch of people.rg
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Nov 23, 2006 - 05:40pm PT
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SANDALL -- Emily Sandall, 25, a 1999 graduate of Eldorado High School and University of Montana graduate, died in a hiking accident in Yosemite National Park, on November 8, 2006. She leaves behind loving and grieving communities in Albuquerque, Missoula, MT, Red Lodge and Dixon, MT, Minnesota, and Oaxaca, Mexico. Emily lived a life full of adventure and service. In high school she won numerous athletic awards and SAGE magazine's "Making a Difference" award. She worked with street children in Mexico and Nepal, led teens on backpacking trips for Voyager Outward Bound in Montana and on wilderness canoe trips in Minnesota and Canada for the Y Camp Menogyn. Emily loved to dance, play the guitar, sing, write, camp, and run. She was known for her laughter, her pranks, her sparkling smile, her friendship, her love of life. A minimalist in her life style, she was generous with her concern, her attention, and her bright and shining personality. Emily's family, parents, Rebecca and Paul, brother, Barry, and sister, Laura invite you to celebrate her short but exceptional life at a Memorial Service on Saturday, November 25, 2006 at 10 a.m. at the First Unitarian Church, 3701 Carlisle NE (at Comanche). To honor Emily's work with disadvantaged youth and her hopes and plans for the future, a foundation to fund projects and scholarships is being organized. In lieu of flowers, contributions can be sent to the Emily Sandall Foundation, 13000 Rover Ave., NE, Albuquerque, NM, 87112 or to your favorite charity. In grief and joyful sharing we honor Emily's life, her dreams and aspirations, and hope that in some small way we can fill in the blanks that remain with her passing.
http://obits.abqjournal.com/results?o_date=2006/11/16
More at http://www.abqtrib.com/news/2006/nov/16/remembrance-young-woman-was-humanitarian/
Remembrance: Young woman was humanitarian
By Maggie Shepard (Contact)
Thursday, November 16, 2006
In one of the photographs Emily Sandall's family shares of her in these weeks following her death, she is posed triumphantly before a glassy, glacial lake, a snowy peak in the distance fogged by the cream-clouded sky.
She's smiling, not her normal, big smile that is in all the other pictures, but a satisfied smile - or maybe a sly smile.
In her bare hand is a snowball.
It wouldn't have been a shock if she'd lobbed it at her companion or figured out another way to laugh and revel in such a glorious location.
That was her way for all 25 years of her life, enjoying nature, loving, helping and laughing with other people.
Sandall died Nov. 8 when she fell hundreds of feet off Yosemite National Park's famous Half Dome after a rainstorm created slippery footing.
Her death left family and friends digging into their souls looking for ways to honor her young, full life.
"The things she did in this short life I think are phenomenal," said Sandall's former teacher at Eldorado High School and dear friend, Joan Goessl. "She filled every corner. So many of us talk about the `I shoulds,' but she lived her life doing those things."
Just after graduating from Eldorado High School with a 4.0 grade-point average in 1999, she traveled to Nepal and Mexico, where she worked with homeless children to organize a school and raised money to support organizations opposing child labor.
There, she also forged a fair trade alliance with a group of women in Oaxaca, Mexico, and connected them with a market in Albuquerque.
Her parents, Paul and Rebecca Sandall, plan to continue this trade arrangement. The women, who called Emily "their sister," will be told of her death via e-mail, Rebecca Sandall said.
"She always looked out for the underdog, and she would kind of explain it as the people who might be forgotten," Rebecca Sandall said. "She was always beyond her years that way. But she had this playful side that kept her very pure and young."
Emily Sandall graduated from the University of Montana-Missoula in 2004 and most recently worked as an outdoor guide with children's camps in Montana.
She hoped to open an organic farm for battered women and had taken two months off work and school to help rebuild areas in Katrina-ravaged New Orleans.
Her parents, along with her siblings Barry and Laura, are creating a foundation in Emily's name to fund tuition to the outdoor children's camps Emily cherished.
"She was a light for lots of people, a pretty unique person," Paul Sandall said. "I think everybody admired her sense of adventure and sense of humanitarianism."
Sandall was also an accomplished athlete, a runner. In 1998, she was selected as The Tribune's athlete of the year in Cross Country.
At that time, she answered The Tribune's questionnaire:
"My advice is: I hope everyone out there has a reason to smile that outweighs your reasons to frown.
"What people don't know is: I hate shopping. I always feel guilty getting new things when I'd much rather have homemade things or hand-me-downs. And, I like cheese."
This sense of humility, hopefulness and playfulness were always a part of Emily, friends and family say.
"Her death is causing me to reflect on the way I live and looking at this legacy," said Goessl, "her legacy of true beauty in every moment of every day."
Edited to add text of article.
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Nov 23, 2006 - 07:08pm PT
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Very sorry for her family.
The last time I did snakedike and was coming down the cables( with my climbing shoes on) a couple of youngsters( 20 year olds in tennis shoes) came running down the cables without using any hands, crazy those cables are scary.
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landcruiserbob
Trad climber
the ville, colorado
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Nov 23, 2006 - 09:47pm PT
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What a wonderful person.God speed.rg
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 24, 2006 - 08:55am PT
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Hey Kath, check your e-mail.
On topic, yeah I really never liked coming down those cables.
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mscarberry
Social climber
Albquerque,NM
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I would really like to comment about Emily Sandall. I have known Emily since the 4th grade and we grew up together. She is not only my best friend, she was a sister to me.
Emily is one of the most selfless human beings ever to have graced this earth. Her passions included helping others, dancing, writing, and nature. She had traveled to multiple countries and worked in the most awful conditions to help the disadvantaged. She tried to live a sustainable life style with minimal impact on the environment. She loved nature and was an experienced outdoorswoman who recieved extensive training at Outward Bound. Although adventerous, she was not careless. She would never put herself or anyone else in known danger. What happened to her was purely a freak accident.
I've read many of the comments about the "cost issue". To Ron's credit he apologised for his comments and I thank him for that.
It is not a matter of cost. Her friends, family and the countless people she touched could care less.
However, let us all try to think about how the words that we say might affect others before we say them. Emily's death is a pain in my soul that will never heal.
For all those who go on adventures, please be careful.
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Anastasia
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Don't mind them... I know a few climbers that drink and type on this site. Please don't let them bother you. Also please don't believe that these negative remarks represent us as a whole. Many of us are disturbed and saddened about this incident.
I have always thought going down the cables is scarier than climbing the face. I am very sad to hear that my worst fears were realized by someone so special. I am deeply sorry for your loss.
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mscarberry
Social climber
Albquerque,NM
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Anastasia,
Thank you for you kind words. Please understand I don't mean to intend that everyone uses words carelessly. But frankly when I saw the post about "costs" ,I was angry. Emily always stuck up for me,and I for her.
I try really hard not to catagorize a entire group of people based on the actions of a small percentage. If Emmy taught me anything, it was not to pass judgement too quickly on others.
Thanks,
M
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Beta Boy
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Terrible accident and tragic loss. Emily sounded like a wonderful person.
Also sounded like she was very experienced in the backcountry, so it seems like she made a choice knowing full well the potential consequences.
I've done the cables on a nice, dry day, stanchions up, and that was after having done East Buttress of El Cap two days prior. I remember thinking, I'd much rather handle the raps off of the East Buttress than deal with those cables. While 9 year old boys were sliding along the cables (on the OUTSIDE to avoid the bottlenecks) it just seemed to me too easy to slip, come off the cables, and face a long, horrible slide.
My hiking partner then, told me of the time he and his wife hiked out in the spring before the cables were put back up. Back then, they had taken a look at the wet rock and cables ... and turned around. I probably would have done the same.
To each his own decision. That's the way it should be.
I will say this, though, the few times I've gotten into major trouble climbing or hiking, it had more to do with confidence and less about ignorance.
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SeyeKo
climber
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Why don't they just have people wear mandatory harnesses that attach to the cable (down or up). At least if you slip you wont fall far?
Anyway, I'm not a climber, I'm a helicopter pilot. I feel bad for everyone. Death sucks.
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hatestocarry
climber
gunks
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I'm astonished there aren't more cable accidents. I've come down them three times after various Half Dome routes & the cable descent crowded with tourists has always been the hairiest part of the adventure, especially carrying a pig.
People won't like me saying this, but I feel the cables should be removed. Tourists assume they are safe ("the Park service wouldn't allow us up here if it wasn't safe? right?") -actual quote from a tourist
But climbers know different. Maybe just a series of rappel anchors? Too bad it takes someone getting killed to galvanize the NPS into action.
What worries me is the possibility of a lawsuit by some tourist which very well might cause the NPS to further restrict climbing in general.
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flyin spider
Sport climber
Atlanta, GA
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Regarding helicopter costs, if we are going to focus on that: There are access fees to get into the park so the park should consider having big rocks - and the accidents they will inevitibably play host to - to be a cost of being open to the public...and use access fees to help cover that - helicopters and all. Last I heard, something like 4 million people a year pay $20 per week to go there. I know I just spent $40 myself just to get in on a recent multi-week trip. That's a lot of cash that I'd rather see go somewhere besides a bloated beauracratic machine.
As climbers, too, we often talk about hikers as people who have "less business" being up there than we do, somehow....but this is not at all true.
This is a sad event, and I grieve for her family as much as I can for someone I don't know personally, but we all need to accept that accidents happen in this world. Let's not fall into the legalistic view that when such things happen that there is some fault to be ascribed to someone. The world is not safe. Never has been, never will be.
May God bless and comfort her family.
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elcapfool
Big Wall climber
hiding in plain sight
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Well, there it is, the mother of all bolt chopping challenges.
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flyin spider
Sport climber
Atlanta, GA
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I am again agast and ashamed about some climbers' amazing ability to start talking about themselves and flaming each other in the midst of something this sad. Thankfully, they are in the vast minority, but to all of you flamers and gossipers....this is not AT ALL about you.
I lost the Best Man from my wedding on Mt. Whitney in 1998. I'm glad I wasn't reading the forums at that time.
Marc
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Mscarberry, condolences about Emily.
Marc, condolences about your best man.
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wombat
Trad climber
NY, NY
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My condolences to Emily's family and friends on what appears to be the loss of a generous soul far too soon for the good of this world. But at least give thanks for a life well lived which can be considered far better than a one long and mispent.
I have only climbed the cables once and they scared the crap out of me more than the Tuolomne runouts. I was frankly surprised that people were allowed on them in this day and age in America. I wont to add to the list the reckless behavior I witnessed on that one day but I am amazed there are not more accidents. I would not suggest that they be removed and access limited but I was certainly surprised.
While Ron's comment could have been better phrased, he owned up and apologized. To those who say that it is inappropriate for the topic to move to issues of access, cost and responsibility I would suggest politely that these forums are preceisely what they are for. This is a site for the discussion of climbing issues. The death of Todd Skinner sparked forthright and useful discussion of the state of his gear and perhaps may lead to a saved life - i know that I checked my harness and so did all my friends. Perhaps something similar may be achieved here. Accidents and rescues are issues that often complicate the relationship of climbers when preserving access so any incident such of this is of natural concern to the climbing community. While climbers (mostly) may be more aware of the risks they are taking and may hold a bias against certain other users, to the government, one accident or lawsuit is pretty much the same as another and climbers are not immune from either.
What I think is inappropriate is the criticism of the morals and posting "ethics" of other people. All of us have lost loved ones and their, and Emily's, memory is better served by an honest discussion of access than pointed recriminations about posts and deletes.
Peace
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wally Fox
climber
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Well, I must tell you that Emily was a person who had a lot of experience traveling in the backcountry. An Outward Bound instructor in the beartooth mountain range, she was a beautiful person and showed compassion to all around her. She was not driven by money or ego, only by living her life to its fullest.
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TRAIL MOMMA
Mountain climber
United States
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Jun 16, 2009 - 02:51pm PT
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My heart breaks for the family.
Some believe that we chose our exit prior to birth. I can only hope that mine will have as satisfying enterprise and as beautiful a view.
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Josh Nash
Social climber
riverbank ca
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Jun 16, 2009 - 04:51pm PT
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I second or third what someone said. The cables are scary and slick. They are hard enough with appraoch shoes. I can only imagine what it is like with cross trainers or running shoes.
Crazy...
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Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Jun 16, 2009 - 10:21pm PT
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It was June in 1966, I was preparing to do an ascent of Half Dome's NW face and I hiked my family into Little Yosemite to cache some hardware for the climb. I figured as long as we were all in there why not climb the cables.
So the next morning my two daughters (age 12 and 9), my son (age 8), and my wife (a non-climber) started up the cable route. I tied all my kids together with 1-inch tubular nylon and anchored them to me for the ascent and descent which went went with no hesitancy nor problem.
Last year, after climbing the Snake Dike, I was descending the cable route with the cables down. Forty-two years had passed and I found myself asking, "What were you thinking?"
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fourmiletrail
climber
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Jun 17, 2009 - 04:59am PT
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With the present-day popularity of the thing , the park service will either have to remove it , or provide a (high tech upgrade) seperate UP ladder and Down ladder with no slack or raised cable and no loose poles etc as there has always been . It needs to be something like Tom Sawyer's Island (Disneyland) or nothing at all .
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kiwirussell
Boulder climber
London
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Sep 15, 2013 - 09:51am PT
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Having just walked over the dome (now called the o2) in London it got me thinking of when I climbed the half dome. Twice, in 1983 in summer (easy and fun) and in 2003 in winter (still fun but the scariest thing I've done)! I'm not surprised that the half dome has claimed lives as it could easily have been me. We were staying at Wawona Hotel and my wife wasn't well so I decided to drive back to Yosemite valley and reprise my 1983 walk. It was 2.30 by the time I got to the cables and the last person had just descended. I was totally on my own with 2 and a half hours of light. i probably shouldn't have gone up but couldn't stop myself. Half way up i took a breather where there was a 6 inch ledge to rest on and made the mistake of looking down! Not fancying the descent I decided to keep going to the top. It was amazing at the top. 3pm on a lovely sunny day and noone else there but i didn't spend long there as I feared the descent. In fact the descent was easier (as with no poles raising the cables, going up was hard on the arms). I just concentrated 100% but did not look down. I was so euphoric when I got off the cables i practically ran the 10 miles back down to the road. Next time I'll take a torch!
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