cold conditions climbing shoes advice sought

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ecdh

climber
the east
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 28, 2016 - 04:26pm PT
looking for rock shoes for extended use in cold places where boots/crampons are not optimal.
soecs:
 climb to about 5.10
 warm enough for long (granite) pitches a fair bit below zero. can swap to boots for belays if warranted.
 sportiva feet. may extend to scarpa but no wider/bulkier
 want something either versatile enough to use as both approach and climbing OR bulk-less enough to stash easily.

have been using LS Ganda's which are warm enough and climb well enough (+/-5.10ish) BUT are heavy/bulky, the leather sucks and they are terrible as approach shoes, ie not very versatile.
other approach shoes ive not found rigid enough but open to suggestions.

have found regular rock shoes (TC pros etc) dont size up enough to be insulated much, tho am open to modifying them.

are there any LS Mega Max still about? were they good to begin with?

anyone done a good mod to oversized regular shoes (neoprene inner, over boot, gaiter etc)?

or suck it up like in days of yore, accept frozen cramped toes or just wear crampons like a man?
Rock!...oopsie.

Trad climber
the pitch above you
Apr 28, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
Yer gonna......




















































lose yer gaddam toes,
































and then die.
ecdh

climber
the east
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 28, 2016 - 05:00pm PT
I can accept that.
But i wanna go out with the flashest gear possible.
ecdh

climber
the east
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 29, 2016 - 03:05pm PT
Unfortunately i lack the reserve of a 1950s scotsman so need to cheat by using shoes. Youth of today eh? Getting soft.

Have just noticed LS do a new approach shoe, TX3, that may tick some boxes.
Anyone worn a pair to comment?
Coach37

Social climber
Philly
Apr 29, 2016 - 03:06pm PT
Some company used to make a double-boot system that the inner boot was essentially a rock shoe. The idea was that you could ditch the outer for rock pitches, and use the full rig for cold belays or where you need to climb snow/ice with or without crampons.

Can't remember the name of the model, Sportiva made them I think.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Apr 29, 2016 - 03:06pm PT
How long of a route are you looking at and where/when? Use trail runners for the approach?
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Apr 29, 2016 - 03:16pm PT
Boreal makes the "Fire Invernal;" see http://www.borealoutdoor.com/en/products/details/fire-invernal

It has a waterproof-breathable membrane and thinsulate insulation. Board-lasted and stiff. Doesn't look like it will be much good for approaches though.


ecdh

climber
the east
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 29, 2016 - 03:33pm PT
coach37: hmmmm, that sounds interesting. some ideas in that. i notice LS once did a range of esoteric such things that all seem to have been lost to the backwaters of cascadeclimbers sale forums.

johntp: multiday routes / alpine mixed with large granite faces. at altitude (4000m - 6000m) early winter conditions, asia.

not my first time doing this stuff and have found in the past that:
a) rock shoes too cold
b) trail shoes not up to the approach nor good enough for rock
c) boots/crampons only make rock pitches harder than needed
d) approach shoes too adapted to the climbing end of the spectrum (gandas, tennies etc) lack the tread to be good on approaches and the suede uppers woeful if they get wet

what im dreaming of is either a warm enough, big enough rock shoe thats worth carrying (and using a separate approach shoe or light boot), or ideally an approach shoe that has decent tread (ie a heel, vibram-ish tread on the aft etc) but can double as a rock shoe up to about 5.10.

open to ideas about modifying / chopping up gear, buying esoterica, being told to harden the f*#k up etc.
not man enough tho to go scottish barefoot.
ecdh

climber
the east
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 29, 2016 - 03:36pm PT
rgold: now we are talking! those ninjas look good too. thanks for the link and highlighting a blindspot in my searches.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Apr 29, 2016 - 03:40pm PT
^^ Thanks for the info, rgold! Interesting.

I didn't realize Boreal has quite a few models of shoes for cold weather and altitude.

http://www.borealoutdoor.com/products/climbing

under Winter, listed are:

Fire Invernal Guetre
Ninja Invernal Guetre
Fire Invernal
Big Wall
Ice Mutant
StefanS

Trad climber
Leavenworth WA
Apr 29, 2016 - 04:49pm PT
Hey ECDH
I have an older version of those and love them. Got them larger sized to be able to wear socks.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Apr 29, 2016 - 04:59pm PT
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/566782/Got-Klettershoe Was not able to make contact There is a Insulated version.
These (with a 1/4 re-sole, on the toes), fit to wear with socks
ecdh

climber
the east
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 29, 2016 - 11:42pm PT
cool. this is all good stuff. have looked into the Boreals but not available where i am and the Boreal importer - well they wont import. bastards.

will keep trawling the net. good to know its not a nutjob request - but what happened in the 90s to stop sportiva producing this stuff? economics, or climbers just got boring.

spotted mr jimmy chin with a pair of mega maxs in the (older) Meru film. if anyone knows of a pair gathering dust somewhere (size 44/45) im up for it.

StefanS: how do the boreals size compared to LS?

(apologies for always carrying on about La Sportiva, but 99% of the time they fit me perfectly)
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Apr 30, 2016 - 08:02am PT
I'm sure you can get the Boreals from Europe, but there does seem to be a vendor in the US:

http://www.silvertipmountaincenter.com/silvertipmountaincenter_i13025769.html

(800) 863-0807.

I've never heard of them and, as many people know with 123Mountain, some bad scams are possible. Edit: WyoRockMan says they're good.

For European orders, the usual sizing problems from ordering by internet will apply, and returning things to European vendors will be costly. Way BITD, I used to order RD's from France (Au Vieux Campeur) well before you could buy them in the US. First time around I ordered a three-size spectrum and managed to sell the two pairs that didn't fit.

A cursory glance at the internet finds, for example,

http://www.bergfreunde.co.uk/boreal-fire-invernal-climbing-shoes/ (UK so English is spoken) A less than enthusiastic German reviewer says "Fits more like a narrow mountain boot and should be worn with socks."

Other possibilities are the Boreal Ninja Invernal Guetre and the Boreal Fire Invernal Guetre, the latter apparently also carried by Silvertip.
WyoRockMan

climber
Grizzlyville, WY
Apr 30, 2016 - 08:40am PT
Silvertip is a legit business. I've had good experiences with them.
Tricerabottoms

climber
Tri County Fairgrounds
Apr 30, 2016 - 02:12pm PT
Sportiva xplorers mid gTx was ideal but hey quit making them. May still be your size floating around..... Good luck
Tricerabottoms

climber
Tri County Fairgrounds
Apr 30, 2016 - 02:14pm PT
I've switched to the sportiva hyper mid gtx and it is pretty damn close to the xplorers mid. Def cabable of climbing 5.10.
ecdh

climber
the east
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 30, 2016 - 03:41pm PT
Thanks rgold, appreciate the screen-work. Will follow it up. Im in Japan so may need to have resent thru a US address.

Re explorers: have a pair and whilst decent approach shoes i find them too flexible. That said they do tick enough boxes to not be off the table (good heal, fairly light, non-leather, ok rubber etc).

Anyone worn the LS Tx3 that seems to have replaced both the ganda and explorer?
ecdh

climber
the east
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 30, 2016 - 04:30pm PT
Thats a good point.

Ive found trangos ok for climbing rock once the rubber wears a bit. Seems the Mega Drus lace and are unlined (?) more like a rock shoe. Still hefty to carry tho but contenders.

The Rock jocks were a good option but confined to the back catalogue along with the others.
StefanS

Trad climber
Leavenworth WA
Apr 30, 2016 - 05:23pm PT
Hey ECDH

I,ve only worn Boreal stuff so dont know the comparison. When I got these Invernals was wearing the Boreal Ballet. I got them a half or whole size larger, so I could wear socks. With the insulation they are comfy, I can wear mine all day.

They are wider than normal. It make wides less painful and there is more fiction for slabs.

I got them from Barabees store in Spain, they have a gray leather upper and look just like the Fires did. Just with a wider footprint.

I am going to reup this year and get the new one.
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