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john hansen
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 23, 2016 - 08:02pm PT
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Here is a photo by Tom Frost showing the equipment on the first ascent for the Salathe wall in 1961.
I noticed there are two pulley's by the four hammers.
Here is a crop.
Was this an early Robbins hauling experiment? I wonder what type of set up they used back then?
Wondering about the evolution of ways to haul stuff.
All and any hauling stories are welcome.
What are the most modern techniques?
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Apr 23, 2016 - 08:13pm PT
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What are the most modern techniques?
You fix from the top "for the photo crew".
Then you get the support crew to do the hauling.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Apr 23, 2016 - 08:35pm PT
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This is captioned as gear for the second ascent of the Nose, in The Vertical World of Yosemite, p.102. However, it also says 1959 in the caption when I believe it should say 1960, so it could be wrong.
I wonder what type of set up they used back then? On the 2nd ascent of the Nose, the hauling technique was to tie the bag to your waist harness and prusik up the fixed rope.
According to Camp 4, by Steve Roper, p.190, the "modern" hauling technique with a pulley and 2 Jumars was first used in Yosemite in Fall 1963, by Royal Robbins and Glen Denny on a recon of the North America Wall. (I just looked in the index under hauling).
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Apr 24, 2016 - 12:29am PT
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What are the most modern techniques?
I heard that John Salathe and Anton Nelson pioneered the modern Yosemite Big Wall Method, of the belayer jugging the rope while the leader hauled the pack. This was for their 1947 ascent of the Lost Arrow Chimney, America's first Grade V climb. Salathe and Nelson only had prussik knots, so their hauling system was probably rather cumbersome. It may have been that the second wore the pack, and the leader took a nap.
In the early 1960's a rope ascending device for bird-watchers called a Jumar was introduced from Switzerland. It became an immediate hit in Yosemite. It was used for both ascending ropes, and for hauling up supplies. It's arrival was right about the same time as the FA of the Salathe Wall, but maybe not in time for that ascent.
A pulley wheel on a carabiner, and an upside-down Jumar stabilized with a handful of pitons was high-tech BITD.
That concept has evolved into various hauling devices. These are combinations of a pulley and a ratcheting mechanism to prevent the rope from slipping.
A hauling device is the most basic, necessary element of a modern hauling system.
Most of the common hauling devices, like the Wall-Hauler and the Pro-Traxion above, are too weak for serious big wall hauling duty. They are fine for conventional, light-duty hauling on NITD routes. But, if your loads are big enough to require a modern hauling technique, you will need a modern hauling device.
The Kong Block Roll is one of the best.
It is technically a rescue device, with a ball-bearing pulley and a 30kN rating. It is not a toy, like its little baby sister, the Kong Futura Mini Block. The Kong Block Roll, or its equivalent, is necessary for serious, heavy-duty wall hauling duty. It's list price is $20 more than the Pro-Traxion toy shown above.
There are various modern methods of hauling big loads, like space hauling, simul-hauling, far-end hauling, 3:1 Chongo Ratchet, etc.
Here's just one way to get multiple heavy loads up quickly and painlessly. PTPP and I used this many times, and it was always my favorite for speed and ease of use. If you have to haul two or more heavy bags up the same pitch, this is the way to go.
With this Remote Simul-Space Hauling System (RSSHS) 200+ lb (100+ kg) bags can be hauled up a full rope's length in about ten minutes. Rewinding the rope loop and connecting a second haul bag takes another two minutes. The hauling effort is minimized for both climbers, and it is not as debilitating as the full-body, weight-lifting workout of conventional big wall hauling.
NITD people need not apply. This system is for serious Big Wall Campers only.
- - - - - - - - - - - REMOTE SIMUL-SPACE HAULING SYSTEM - - - - - - - -
Two haul ropes are connected at two places to form a big loop. A first climber hauls the load from an upper belay station using a pulley mechanism, while a second climber counterweights the load by ascending a rope coming down from the first climber. The second climber remains close to the lower belay station.
At the upper belay station, the #1 rope goes through a very strong ratcheting pulley hauling device, like a Kong Block Roll. A locking carabiner on the rope backs up the hauling device. The belay anchors must be very strong.
The upper rope connection is just below the downstream side of the ratchet. The lower rope connection is two butterfly knots clipped together under the haul bag. The loop hanging down should be just large enough to accommodate the jugger's yo-yoing. The excess rope is stored in rope bags. The haul bag gets clipped to the #1 rope by a butterfly knot.
The upper climber engages the hauling ratchet, and takes the slack out of rope #1. The lower climber releases the haul bag from the belay anchor, and jugs 20 feet up rope #2 to counter-weight the bag. The upper climber hauls the bag in a conventional fashion. He goes as fast as he can, for a short burst of about 20 feet, with the motionless jugger sliding down the wall. Then, the hauler stops to rest while the jugger goes up the rope, as fast as he can. When the jugger reaches his starting point, he stops, and signals the hauler to begin again.
The two climbers alternate with short bursts of speed and rest. This allows the bag to be raised very rapidly and efficiently. It also obviates the impossible task of jugging a rope that is simultaneously being hauled down through the ratchet.
When the haul bag is docked at the upper belay station, the ratchet is disengaged, and the lower climber pulls the rope loop backwards through the pulley to set up for the next haul bag.
OTHER CONSIDERATIONS:
Don't use two two identical haul ropes, or you'll confuse them. A dynamic rope can be used for rope #2.
The jugging climber must be tied into the lower belay using the lead rope as a safety line. Typically, a 20-foot tail of rope is used.
The toes of the jugger's shoes can be rapidly worn out from sliding down the wall. You can make the plastic caps on your knee pads take the abuse. Or, turn sideways a bit, and let your clothing take it. Good Luck.
Duct taping your jumar slings to your shoes helps with the sliding and speed-jugging, which tends to dislodge the slings.
If the haul bag gets stuck, the lower climber has a direct line to it, and can greatly assist in wiggling it loose from its obstacle. If the jugger goes all the way up to free the haul bag, he can ride back down during the next hauling cycle.
The RSSHS works best for haul bags that are at least half as heavy as the jugger. For lighter bags, a conventional hauling technique is better. For a really heavy load, split it into two smaller ones.
It is possible to use the RSSHS on traversing pitches. The jugger can clip the #2 rope through a directional anchor, so that he rides up and down below that carabiner or pulley.
Russ the FISH heard about this system and said:
Holy Crap! Just haul the fukcing bags!
There is only one easier way to move heavy haul bags up the Big Wall:
Trick Werner into using his helicopter to move your stuff.
THIS POST WAS EXTENSIVELY EDITED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT FOR BREVITY, CLARITY AND IMAGERY
Gnome saw the original.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Apr 24, 2016 - 01:23am PT
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Bump this
With the post I originally made below.
really thank you tom, for laying it all out!
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Apr 25, 2016 - 10:21am PT
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**
At 1st I answered a five paragraph post . . .
**
I've got haul throat, just reading, that,....... Thnx tom, want to trade a #5Big Dude? HaharB~D
EDIT, snuck that whole page in there!
*2nd EDIT* Uh? Huh!
Okay holy crap check that out ! this started more oh by the way. . .
But!!!
That looks like THEway to
holey crap just HAUL The Fukcin Bags
**3rd EDIT
Honestly, Tom that was a wonderfully complete, treatment of the subject.
For those just looking at this or in testing, & to the less experienced,
it seems overly involved . As with any system,
Stating the obvious :
Until one has it dialed in. used it a bunch, the true positives, are hard to see.
In consideration counterbalance - using gravity to aid in up-ward progress,
Is quick and less strength sapping.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 25, 2016 - 11:07am PT
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I seem to remember Royal stating he first did the leg haul method on the second ascent of the Nose. I can't remember if I read this or he said it to me in person. If so I imagine it was with prusiks.
I also asked Tom Frost what he thought his most groundbreaking or important climb was, I can't remember the precise words I used, and he said the second ascent of the Nose. I was expecting Salathe Wall or NA wall, but he said that trying such a big, difficult wall in a continuous style was a huge leap and they had no idea if they could make it until well on their way towards the top.
Climbers are technically better nowadays, but no one will ever pioneer like those guys did.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 25, 2016 - 11:41am PT
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The Fet, I'm pretty sure the Robbins method was only used several years after the 1960 second ascent of the Nose. Robbins wrote about the method (I think in Summit, but my memory has faded over the decades) saying that the idea came to him that a man descending could cause a haul bag to rise. The introduction of the Jumar Ascender and the ability to "Jumar in place" made the idea practical.
Robbins wirtes that they did hauling hand-over-hand on their early ascents, and Pratt wrote in his account of the first ascent of the South Face of Watkins in 1964 that he was using a new hauling technique perfected by Robbins.
The weight of modern wall loads is much greater than that for overnight climbs in the 1950's and 60's, so the "sophisticated modern techniques" have greater importance now.
John
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 26, 2016 - 02:26pm PT
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I'd really like to get my hands on one of the new Pro-Trax devices. They appear to have fixed the many design flaws of the old one, and modelled it after the Micro-Trax. Plus it has a proper efficient pulley, so it is likely better than the Block-Roll now.
I have always wondered on the FA of Salathe - did they put bolts in where the fixed ropes up to the Heart now go? Were those bolts added later? Are they part of the 13 bolt count?
There are not many viable natural anchors coming down from the base of the Heart. I do know the FA-ists hauled up that way. Even back then they knew not to haul Free Blast! Did they just tie a bunch of ropes together and jug 800 feet?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Apr 26, 2016 - 02:50pm PT
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I have always wondered on the FA of Salathe - did they put bolts in where the fixed ropes up to the Heart now go? Were those bolts added later? Are they part of the 13 bolt count?
Wow! there were only 13 originals? Jeez, there's 83 on the Supertopo.
Maybe the FA'ers had some fixed pins for haulin to heart? Not sure where the line would go, i've only been up there twice.
Funny those pulleys in the top pic. They must've been used for hauling?
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Apr 26, 2016 - 03:02pm PT
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Someone should ask Tom Frost. Duh.
I'm betting that Grossman has his email address.
edit: request sent to SG to ask the horse himself.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Apr 26, 2016 - 03:19pm PT
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The Kong block roll now has a ball-bearing pulley, according to their website.
There is a photo in Vertical World of Yosemite that shows "Chuck Pratt ferrying loads across Mammoth Terraces". He's carrying an duffel bag on his shoulder. So, I think the FA team hauled bags up Free Blast. They probably weren't able to reach Mammoth Terraces in one day from the ground.
The present Fake Blast line goes up a very blank section. That's what makes is so attractive for hauling bags up. There is basically no way to use pitons for belay stations on that line. The huge Galleon flake, one rope below Heart Ledge, could be nailed at the edges, but the rest of the way down it's blank. It has bolts now, and must have always had bolts.
The Salathe FA team may have rapped down from the far right edge of Heart, following a line that was later part of Muir Wall. That would have allowed them to use pitons for the rappel stations. Two or three ropes down, the Muir has a big traverse, so I'm not sure if that's the way they went.
I can well imagine RR claiming 13 bolts for the entire Salathe route, and not counting another 12 that were used for the Fake Blast rap stations. Fake Blast technically isn't part of the Salathe Wall. I've never seen it listed in a guidebook or topo as being part of the Salathe Wall route, even though it was an integral part of the first ascent.
Similarly, rappel bolts at the East Ledges were probably never included in the hole count of any El Cap wall route, even if they were put in following a specific ascent, like maybe the Salathe.
EDIT: that photo of Pratt was more likely in one of Robbins' Rockcraft books. Anyway, I remember the photo and the caption clearly.
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Scole
Trad climber
Zapopan
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Apr 26, 2016 - 04:33pm PT
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Back in my day we just hauled the bags hand over hand
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john hansen
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2016 - 08:23pm PT
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The photo in my original post was taken from page 33 of Yosemite Big Walls Supertopo,s , saying it was from the FA of the Salathe. I think I would trust Galen Rowell's book saying the second ascent of the Nose more.
Like some one mentioned above , they had to use the pulleys for hauling..even if hauling hand over hand the pulley would at least give you a better angle rather then pulling straight up. You could even rig a 2 to 1 where you go over a top pulley then down under another anchored for upward pull.
Would be great to hear from Tom Frost on this. I believe Joe Fitschen was on the second ascent of the Nose too..I think he post's here once in a while...
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 26, 2016 - 09:35pm PT
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FA of Salathe wall, looks like using a pulley for a 2:1
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