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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Apr 28, 2016 - 08:30pm PT
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Respect, Reverence, Humility and Harmony for our Mother Earth.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Apr 29, 2016 - 07:19am PT
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There is one in my neighborhood running around that looks like that... good little hunter.
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cornel
climber
Lake Tahoe, Nevada
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May 11, 2016 - 09:28am PT
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Climbed on the Res about 30 yrs ago with a friend working there. Stayed in one of the villages and met a few of the locals. It was my honeymoon believe it or not. Had a great time climbing there. For the first time in my life I understood what it meant to be a minority when I attended a basketball game in Lukachukai... Anyway, If your heart is really set on climbing or jumping on the Res I think it is certainly appropriate to introduce yourself and pay a fee to whomevers land you will be on. Understand clearly, that the Man will arrest you and confiscate your gear if you are caught too. Like several have mentioned here, Indians have gotten the Shaft by the white man. Be Respectful.. Their lives are very difficult as it is...
Lastly had a good friend try to climb Spider Rock back 97 or 98.? He had no understanding as to the Sacradness of this formation to the Navajo.. He gained a new understanding very quickly on the day they decided to climb. About 2 1/2 pitches up someone starts shooting at them with a rifle. Real close, just a few feet from both of them. Well apparently they set a world in rappelling those pitches, being shot at repeatedly until their feet were on the ground... Show Respect - stay off Spider Rock... Or any other formation Indians hold Sacred...
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splitter
Trad climber
HighwayToHell
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May 11, 2016 - 09:34am PT
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Best way to climb on Navajo land
to walk humbly!
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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May 11, 2016 - 09:46am PT
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Let's recap. What's the consensus on Best Way to Climb on Navajo Land?
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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May 11, 2016 - 04:11pm PT
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Very carefully, and respectfully.
Try to contact the people who live near where you want to climb. Offer them a sack of Blue Bird flour, or a tin of coffee or firewood or something.
You can contact me, I live in Kayenta, and there are a hand full of climbs I can do around town here without worrying about getting busted. I know I could get permission to climb Algathla, Shiprock's little brother (see below). Speaking of Shiprock, it seems to get done several times a year, so folks must be making some connections out that way.
Forget about Monument Valley, unless you want to negotiate a hefty payout.
You could hire a local "guide", but you will probably be getting ripped off, and you could still get busted!
Gimmie a call, I'm up for just about anything.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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May 11, 2016 - 07:56pm PT
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So, bribery basically then? Sounds like that's the consensus?
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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May 12, 2016 - 08:57pm PT
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It seems a number of posts mention the word "respect" in this thread. In my experience it means understanding that for some of the people living in the areas of these spires we seek, those mountains are a sacred part of their culture. If our goal in attaining the summits of some of these spires is so that we can post our selfie on instagram, twitter, FB, ST, MP, sell a story or pic, etc, this may be considered disrespectful to some of those traditional locals.
It is my understanding that some of these formations we lust for have had stories and ceremonies ascribed to them for many generations. The spires are a part of the family of some of the people who have lived in these canyons for a long time. I try to imagine what it would be like to have lived out in the desert for half a century in the same area, to know all the trees, know where the hawk nests, to listen to the wind. And then five guys drive up in a Subaru and start pounding their way up the monument in my backyard.
In the end many of those spires protect themselves with their loose, hollow rock, dicey protection, off widths, etc. I believe that with so many "legal" spires around most climbers it seems are best off avoiding these lands.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 12, 2016 - 11:05pm PT
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Let's recap. What's the consensus on how best to be a complete dick on Navajo Land?
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hellroaring
Trad climber
San Francisco
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May 13, 2016 - 01:58pm PT
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Escopeta's avatar image almost looks like a squiggly crooked swastika...
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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May 13, 2016 - 04:44pm PT
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Godwin's Law in less than three pages. Is that a ST record?
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rincon
climber
Coarsegold
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May 13, 2016 - 06:34pm PT
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So, bribery basically then? Sounds like that's the consensus?
If you pay someone to climb on their land, how is that bribery?
Anywhere else that'd be considered just paying a user fee.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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May 13, 2016 - 06:45pm PT
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The vast majority of those few climbers who seek chossy towers are much better off paying their "bribes" or "user fees" to the NPS or BLM who control probably as much as 90% of the towers on the Colorado Plateau.
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jstan
climber
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May 13, 2016 - 07:13pm PT
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From reading this excellent thread I come to a conclusion. The best thing to do is forget about your personally needing to climb. Forget about what "you need". Just go down there and find out what the area is all about.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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May 13, 2016 - 07:14pm PT
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If you pay someone to climb on their land, how is that bribery?
Anywhere else that'd be considered just paying a user fee.
Because, as it was stated early on the only way to "legally" climb on the res is by meeting with the parks dept/elders, etc to get official approval. Which, of course, also involves a fee and is usually quite substantial if you even get access to the formations at all. I am told the level of sacredness increases the fee for access but that's unconfirmed.
Paying some local to take you out climbing and paying that person on the promise of not turning you in is the reservation equivalent of paying the street thug with an ice pick to watch your car in the parking lot to make sure nothing happens to the tires.
Essentially, the people taking the money are doing so under the table, hence the term bribery.
It's just that apparently some people on here prefer to use euphemisms and talk about donations of climbing gear and such rather than face the reality and call it what it is.
EDIT: Cool pic Todd
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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May 14, 2016 - 04:13am PT
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It seems a number of posts mention the word "respect" in this thread. In my experience it means understanding that for some of the people living in the areas of these spires we seek, those mountains are a sacred part of their culture.
Many years ago some Native Americans spontaneously invited us to climb a sacred peak on their "rez" near Taos, New Mexico. We jumped on the prospect and drove up there. We never actually got on the peak, however. Instead, we spent the day hauling out dozens of bags of beer cans from the trail on this "sacred" mountain on the reservation.
I guess drinking large quantities of beer and throwing empty beer cans onto the ground is a sacred Native America practice on sacred mountains.
Had a similar experience in western New Mexico. While hiking across the desert I came across a small cave that was filled with pottery shards and numerous large, intact Anasazi pots & bowls, and Anasazi ceramic pipes. The cave was also filled with empty beer cans.
I guess there are significant cultural differences when it comes to respecting sacred mountains. Nonetheless, I respect their authority and wishes, and I won't climb on sacred land even if it's not on a reservation.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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May 14, 2016 - 03:13pm PT
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SLR thanks for sharing those bummer stories.
From my observations many of the Dineh want to live the "white man" culture. They want to be consumers, hold down jobs in the cities, drive fancy trucks, etc. Along the same lines, most of them probably don't give a ratz a$$ where or what we climb.
It is the vanishing traditional culture which seems valuable we respect and protect as much as we are able even if we have no idea why it is important. In my opinion the same holds true for wilderness areas. Even if our entire religion, our entire belief system revolves around our Instagram account, perhaps we should step outside of our self and realize we are part of a larger world community.
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