Statins for Gray Beards

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zBrown

Ice climber
Apr 27, 2019 - 12:15pm PT
Exactly what statins are you people taking?

I was recommended ATORVASTATIN by my doctor based on the "calculator".

My total cholesterol is 206, slightly out of range.

However, if you plug into the calculator, I receive a recommndation for statin.

The calculator is totally skewed for age. Plug in the numbers and age 62, no recommendation. Plug in same numbers and age 72, "get yourself a statin old boy".

There are benefits other than cholestoral lowering from statins. The so-called pleiotropic effects.

I am considering using the drug.


rmuir

Social climber
From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Apr 27, 2019 - 06:10pm PT
I'm taking statins, and my beard is still grey.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 27, 2019 - 06:33pm PT
Does it help with The Wyde?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Apr 27, 2019 - 06:50pm PT
mynameismud

climber
backseat

Apr 13, 2016 - 08:23am PT
If you really want to lower your cholesterol it requires a lifestyle change.

Ok, what if you are trying to RAISE your colesterol?

My ldl is about the middle of the range. My HDL is too low. ( it has been since I was 20)

The solution? They tell me it’s statins




I’m suspicious.
zBrown

Ice climber
Apr 27, 2019 - 09:12pm PT
Running will raise HDL in many people

Turmeric will too

But everybody is unique

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 27, 2019 - 11:21pm PT
rmuir - what statin are you taking?
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 28, 2019 - 06:15am PT
turmeric and Cumin work better than statins according to the doctor who did several presentations on colesterol at Isa's farm. very low rate of heart disease in India because they eat so much cumin and turmeric. the supplements come with the cumin and turmeric in the same pill.
phylp

Trad climber
Upland, CA
Apr 28, 2019 - 10:16am PT
Great thread with interesting discussions.
Thanks everybody for your contributions!
Gimp

Trad climber
Missoula, MT & "Pourland", OR
Apr 28, 2019 - 11:47am PT
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/long-term-statin-use-protects-against-prostate-cancer-death-2019010715760

Link is another consideration. My read is less than 5% risk of myopathy.
ron gomez

Trad climber
Apr 28, 2019 - 11:52am PT
Statins...yeah I guess weakness. I had a hell of a time getting the right one. Had issues with joint pain and tendonosis issues. Therefore hard to workout, hence weaknesses. Yeah the hair is grey and getting greyer and in areas I rather not mention!
Peace
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Apr 28, 2019 - 02:21pm PT
very low rate of heart disease in India because they eat so much cumin and turmeric.

Or because they eat little or no red meat, and if they do, it’s not marbled with fat.they don’t corn feed.

And even the per capita consumption of chicken is under 2.2 kg PER YEAR.

Some Americans eat that in one sitting.
rmuir

Social climber
From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Apr 28, 2019 - 08:54pm PT
what statin are you taking?

Atorvastatin, at the lowest possible dosage. 20mg, I believe.

My beard is STILL grey. 😉
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 28, 2019 - 11:56pm PT
Thanks, appreciate it...
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Apr 29, 2019 - 11:34am PT
very low rate of heart disease in India because they eat so much cumin and turmeric.

Before everybody chucks their Statins in the bin and goes on a curry diet, it turns out that heart disease is the number one killer and stoke is number 3 in India, and the rate has risen by 34% in 26 years in India.

The rate is about 25% higher in India than it is here.


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/heart-disease-deaths-rise-in-india-by-34-in-15-years/articleshow/64924601.cms

In the same span of time the USA’s rate has declined by 41%. When did statins start being prescribed in volume?

The rate due to heart disease in India is 207/100k and in the USA it is 165/100k
Indian doctors cite the difficulty of providing statins in regions with low access to Heath care.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/heart_disease_mortality/heart_disease.htm
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/heart_disease_mortality/heart_disease.htm

One thing that is evident in both countries is that the rates are markedly different parts of the country. The worst areas in the USA are centered in the south in a belt from the appalachians fromu West Virginia to Oklahoma, with outliers Nevada and Michigan.

Washington, Oregon, Minnesota, Colorado, Arizona, Alaska, and Hawaii are among the best states in this regard. Massachusetts and Connecticut are the best in the East.

In India, the region chart may reflect access to heath care, with Kashmir and the southern tip faring the worst.

The main difference I see in the two countries is that the number 2 killer in India is diarrhea, and here it is cancer.

Maybe cumin and turmeric are to blame both places
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 29, 2019 - 12:50pm PT
I’m suspicious

I hope you’re predominantly suspicious of what you read here! YMMV
zBrown

Ice climber
Apr 29, 2019 - 02:40pm PT
Curcumin has been shown in studies to both increase HDL and to have pleiotropic effects.

So what are these p-efffecs which both statins and curcumin have?

In general:

recent studies indicate that some of the cholesterol-independent or “pleiotropic” effects of statins involve improving endothelial function, enhancing the stability of atherosclerotic plaques, decreasing oxidative stress and inflammation, and inhibiting the thrombogenic response. Furthermore, statins have beneficial extrahepatic effects on the immune system, CNS, and bone. Many of these pleiotropic effects are mediated by inhibition of isoprenoids, which serve as lipid attachments for intracellular signaling molecules. In particular, inhibition of small GTP-binding proteins, Rho, Ras, and Rac, whose proper membrane localization and function are dependent on isoprenylation, may play an important role in mediating the pleiotropic effects of statins.

Curcumin specific:

Protective properties of curcumin may influence HDL functionality; therefore, we reviewed the literature to determine whether curcumin can augment HDL function. In this review, we concluded that curcumin may modulate markers of HDL function, such as apo-AI, CETP, LCAT, PON1, MPO activities and levels. Curcumin may subsequently improve conditions in which HDL is dysfunctional and may have potential as a therapeutic drug in future. Further clinical trials with bioavailability-improved formulations of curcumin are warranted to examine its effects on lipid metabolism and HDL function.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Apr 29, 2019 - 04:38pm PT
A
I hope you’re predominantly suspicious of what you read here! YMMV

I’m usually suspicious Navigating the “information” on the web. I tend towards actual medical sites, but even those are a bit suspect.

Take the colesterol calculators online. My HDL is a very low 24. My LDL is 119, which is considered in the acceptable range for a 71 y.o.

My blood pressure is usually around 125/55. It’s always worse when I’m at the dentist.

Years ago, that was considered great, now my systolic is too high. I once went into an ER with an injury and they thought my diastolic meant I was in shock until I told them that was normal for me. It took me a couple of minutes to realize they were whispering about getting out the crash cart. It was kind of funny.

Diet, weight, and body fat play no role in the calculators.

Anyhow, my Kaiser doctor of 25 years put me on statins. ( atorvastin 40mg - after shots with 2 other statins I had side effects with) Before he put me on them 5 years ago my HDL was 35 and my ldl was 130. The calculator tells me I’m worse off now.

It says I have a 25% chance of dying of heart disease in the next 10 years. Panic time.

So I played with the calculator. I put perfect numbers in everywhere but age. The result? A 3% drop in mortality.

Then I took my real numbers and the mortality went down 12% when I said my age was 50.
And by putting in the perfect numbers for a fifty y.o. The number went down another 3%

The main variable in the calculator is age, something none of us can do much about. The other variables only improve your prospect a handful of percent.


There are magical compounds on the web. Citrus complex, turmeric, etc. But none have studies that support them on any actual doctor or government sites. The best I find is this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11063434
Lowers ldl and total colesterol and raises HDL——perfect.

So it looks like 5-10 servings of orange juice a day is it.



I think I’m gonna puke. I know my stomach will rebel.


What I really have to accept is that a 71 y.o. White male non smoker has a reasonable chance of dying in the next 10 years no matter what. And the maths say I have about a 1.5% chance of living another 30 years.
zBrown

Ice climber
Apr 29, 2019 - 05:43pm PT
Curcumin quotes above are from NCBI

And Lorenzo had the same experience with calculator as I did.

Totally skewed for age.

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Apr 29, 2019 - 06:49pm PT
I didn’t think of putting in sex, both because it’s also not controllable but also because I accept that men and women are different. Also, there aren’t as many studies on women. They don’t head the committees.

But I don’t doubt there is a difference in the calculator.

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Apr 29, 2019 - 07:22pm PT
Curcumin quotes above are from NCBI

And Lorenzo had the same experience with calculator as I did.

Totally skewed for age.

Ok, but those are some of the suspect studies I’m talking about. What information can a layman glean from them?

First off they are filled with gibberish to bamboozle even a review committee ( quick, without looking it up, what is endothelial, pliotropic, why would I want to inhibit isoprenoids, and what the hell is the relationship of GTP binding proteins and isoprenylation?

Is there any conclusion other than

may play an important role in mediating the pleiotropic effects of statins.

Or it may not, they don’t actually know.

It’s just a leadin to another study grant. No actual data that it works. Will it extend my life in a way I would want?

The second quote’s conclusion is

Further clinical trials with bioavailability-improved formulations of curcumin are warranted to examine its effects on lipid metabolism and HDL function.

Let me know what the double blind clinical trials say.

Will I grow breasts? ( might be cool to try)
Messages 101 - 120 of total 123 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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