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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Use yer left hand, too.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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I don't think strength is anywhere near important as technique...
Seen a LOT of strong fukers flailing...
and seen "Skinny wimps" float right by...
Remember the OP asked about high end climbing.
If you don't think high end climbers are strong as f*#k (that's climbing strong, not bench press or whatever strong), you don't have a clue . . .
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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If you have the time and the location-climb, climb, climb.
Different climbs give a different workout.
Use weights to restore balance to your musculature (pushing exercises), and to help heal/prevent injuries.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Use yer left hand, too.
Priceless advice!
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johnr9q
Sport climber
Sacramento, Ca
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Another way to phrase this question. If your schedule allows you to get out climbing at least 3 days a week, either at the gym or outdoors, would you augment your climbing with weights/hangboard etc and expect your climbing to improve? Basically the age old question: Is the best training for climbing, climbing? Again, this question applies to high end climbers who are pushing their envelope.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Most productive training I've ever done for climbing besides climbing and bouldering has been rope climbing and ring dips. And, yoga.
Kettlebell training is great for balanced muscle tone, coordination and flexibility. It, also, helps with some of the muscle imbalances associated with climbing.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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I'm not sure about high end climbing, but after spending the last 49 years on the steady decline from high- to low-end bouldering, I would add that you should spent at least as much attention on aerobic fitness as on climbing-specific training. This matters especially for cracks, but a climb like Crest Jewel on North Dome would kill the calves of most climbers who haven't worked them ahead of time.
Good luck.
John
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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You need to define high end climbing and also what shape you are in currently. If you are relatively fit and not overweight I would say in my experience that climbing/bouldering 2-3 times a week should get you fairly solid in the 5.11 to 5.12 range. If your goal is to climb harder routes than that then you need to look at climbing specific training to build your grip strength, power and endurance.
Before engaging in that training, do some research and ideally find a good trainer as it is easy to injure your joints from strain or over use. You can build grip strength and endurance by climbing steep climbs with larger holds without the joint strain of hammering the crimpers. Save your tendons for real rock.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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" If you don't think high end climbers are strong as f*#k (that's climbing strong, not bench press or whatever strong), you don't have a clue . . ."...
I don't have a clue about climbing???... (LOfukingL!!!)...
What...
you taking things personally or something???...
Nothing personal taken, just calling it like it see it . . .
But you don't seem to be able to grasp that the OP is talking about high-end climbing . . .
What do you know about it?
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Another way to phrase this question. If your schedule allows you to get out climbing at least 3 days a week, either at the gym or outdoors, would you augment your climbing with weights/hangboard etc and expect your climbing to improve? Basically the age old question: Is the best training for climbing, climbing? Again, this question applies to high end climbers who are pushing their envelope.
I am no expert on training, as I constantly cross the line of climbing for the sake of climbing and training for the sake of improving. But I have seen gains even with this approach. When I started to attend the gym getting up the easy, juggy 5.8-9 climbs was hard for me, I am far from a natural at anything athletic. I didn't incorporate actual training strategies into my climbing till 2014 when my friend told me "if you want to get better at crack climbing, start bouldering." It is counter-intuitive, but he was right. Laps on that handcrack you can likely do while sleep walking, won't help you solve the crux of a much harder sequence, ability to do harder sequences will. Anyway, I can now redpoint some 5.12s on gear, which I see as a massive gain.
Your question does not have a right or wrong answer as it is highly dependent on an individual. The number of years they have been climbing and training, genes, nutrition, amount of sleep they get, external stressors in a given week or a year, variety of injuries, schedule of work, amount of time they can dedicate to training, outdoor plans and many other factors are just SOME of the things that will influence the gains you may want.
Without going into details, I can tell you that when I am on a regular climbing, training and stretching regimen, I gain the most. Training regimen involves changing up the routine on ongoing basis and dedicating a lot of the time to working on weaknesses. People you know well, or an unbiased individual who has no interest in kissing your ass may provide the best insight on what your strengths and weaknesses are, as they are the ones who watch you climbing. Although you can observe which problems/routes you are better at, you can't see yourself climb. It may be of benefit to hire a coach to assess you and come up with a list of skills to improve.
Have a goal for the future and decide for YOURSELF how much sacrifice is acceptable for you. How much do you want it and how much of YOU CAN YOU dedicate to IT. Training program for the Denali's Slovak Direct would be different than training program for a 5.13c route in Indian Creek. You do not have to follow a rigid training program to accomplish your goal as you can simulate the training program outdoors, in several creative ways. For example when working on endurance and technique you may want to do a lot of moderate routes below your onsight limit for mileage. Limit bouldering would be good for power phases and routes above your OS abilities could be great for training strength. Although the nature of these routes has a lot to do with what it is doing for you...books go into the details here, so read books.
Train smart.
Work weaknesses.
Rest/nutrition.
Without strength/power (strong fingers which are able to stick difficult moves) there is nothing to endure.
Injury prevention (static moves are better for long term health and so are open hand crimps).
Work your core, stretch and prevent muscle imbalances by allowing some time for chest/tricepts and shoulder work.
Work strength/power when you are most rested. Endurance does not need as much rest.
Change things up in your program as the body will get used to the same sh#t routine and you will plateau.
If you have extra weight which you are WILLING to lose, do so. Massive muscles is also extra weight.
ENJOY and have a lot of FUN while training. If you hate training, it will be difficult to bring psyche to the workout.
Don't let the external factors influence you.
Best training for climbing is climbing (weakness) specific training, mixed with climbing on terrain that is similar to that of your goal climb. :)
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moacman
Trad climber
Montuckyian Via Canada Eh!
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Climb as much as you can and yoga............
Stevo
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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One thing you can do is do some bouldering moves you feel comfortable with, then use a weight belt or weight vest, and gradually add weight. Besides simulating gear weight and rope drag, it builds strength and control in the context that you need it.
There is a Youtube clip of Bachar talking about some of his training routines, and at one point, after doing some one arm pull ups, he chuckles and says, "Don't know how much good it really does."
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Locker go back and read the OP and your response--
see if you can figure out why it was totally non-responsive . . .
I'll give you some hints . . .
You were projecting . . . (I meant the psychological condition, not trying a hard route . . .)
No one was talking about bodybuilding to improve climbing . . . except you . . .
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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"I don't think strength is anywhere near important as technique..."
Both are very important. No matter how good your technique is on 5.8 handcracks, it won’t help you much on a sequency 5.13, which would require a lot of finger strength and power to onsight. And no matter how hard you can crush overhanging 5.14 sport climbs, if you don’t know how to climb a difficult slab or OW, the strength won’t take you up them. So both are very important. Combining climbing specific strength training WITH the technique required for the things that you plan to climb, are both vital for success.
What I noticed personally, is that the harder the grades get, the more sport-like the cracks become. Slab on the other hand...not much high end PURE slab, but pure slab is a game of balance and technique, a very different beast, which is challenging and interesting in own ways.
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deschamps
Gym climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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There is no doubt that for 99% of climbers, we will eventually plateau with just climbing, and will need something else to break through that plateau.
What exactly you should do to try break through that plateau is not something I would trust to us internet trolls. The new Anderson brothers climbing book will be a great resource.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Weight training builds muscle and increases strength.
You decide.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Not that it really matters because I am not a "High end" climber and am pretty much totally fuking around due to boredom in the shop...
I hear you, me too (just an office in my case, more boring perhaps) -- I was just tweaking you a bit and I enjoy from your responses--I guess some other people do too. No real "high end" climbing on my part, but I do spend a bunch of time at a rock gym in Boulder and see professional climbers climbing away regularly, so perhaps I'm qualified to have an opinion. I'm hoping JLP can weigh in for more humor value.
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cotuclimber
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Someone looking for top notch, 5.14 and above, climbers on this site, will be looking for a while. Opinions of those would likely be useless for the typical poster. One may want to know what sort of a performance enhancing stack of supplements the pro athletes are on. What allows them to recover fast enough from training power on day one, limit bouldering on day three, followed by another killer day? There is likely much more than a protein shake and a plate of carrots.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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and expect your climbing to improve?
To me the purpose of the weights etc isn't so much about climbing improvemet as it is cross-training to prevent imbalance and injury. Looking back on past injuries I have had (not related to falls), most occurred when I was exclusively climbing for a while (because that is the most fun), and had started to neglect the weights cross-training .
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