Armed Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge HQ

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Spiny Norman

Social climber
Boring, Oregon
Feb 12, 2016 - 09:23am PT
Oh, he wants perspective.

Here's some more perspective.

Kinda hard to argue that nothing is being done about "gang violence" unless one is totally dissociated from the data.

Violent crime of all types (with the possible exception of rape) has been declining for decades.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Feb 12, 2016 - 09:29am PT
The FBI did a good job on this whole mess and the prior one in Nevada. Instead of storming in with guns blazing, they just waited until they could arrest them calmly, even though it took quite a while to catch the old man, Cliven, out in the open.

What were these people thinking? That you can point sniper rifles at BLM employees, and, using arms, prevent them from trying to remove the trespass cattle?

Federal grazing fees are a pittance. The fact that Cliven wouldn't pay the fees was silly. Grazing is almost free.

The one death didn't come from a G-man. It came from an Oregon policeman. Too bad about that.

These guys just need to learn that the sovereign citizen movement is a bunch of crap. Read the wiki page about it. It is loony:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement

Read it. It will blow your mind. And these jokers believe it, along with a lot of others.

They are headed for prison now. Hopefully for a longer period than the ranchers convicted of arson did. I do agree that the mandatory minimum laws which led to their long sentences has always been a bad idea.

I remember when the mandatory minimums law was passed. At the time, it seemed sound. Judges were letting criminals walk with a slap on the wrist. Looking back on 20 years of it, I think it is obvious that the mandatory minimum laws were a bad idea.
Spiny Norman

Social climber
Boring, Oregon
Feb 12, 2016 - 09:30am PT
^ b104 - sharp dude. Watch & learn.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 12, 2016 - 09:31am PT

Just as one example. These men had declared themselves ready and willing to murder federal and state LE officers during the commission of crimes.

Spiny it is amazing that none of those dipshits had an itchy trigger finger and let loose. We were really lucky that no one got hurt.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 12, 2016 - 10:03am PT
Spineless, I'll forward yer post to the mother of the one year old killed by gangsters two days
ago. I'm sure she'll be equally impressed that only 640 people were killed in LA last year, the
vast majority by gangsters. Yeah, it's a veritable love-in out there.

L.A. homicides, after big jump in August, are up 7% for 2015 - LA Times
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-lapd-killings-20150902-story.html
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 12, 2016 - 10:13am PT
Reilly, I don't get what your point is with the gangs.

You keep hammering it, in a rather obnoxious way, but you don't seem to be able to draw an understandable relationship.
couchmaster

climber
Feb 12, 2016 - 10:38am PT
Escobar said, Quote:
"....spewing crap about a community you've never been to regarding a wildlife refuge you've never seen is bad form. And since I've been in the community, and I frequent the refuge, I'm in a unique position to call out the fact that he's full of crap. If someone came on here and started spraying about a climb they've never done, they would get filleted (at least I hope they would). As a matter of fact, I think I read something about a wall in the valley that had that treatment and they made a movie about it. He spews about a place he's never even been to and the retards soak it up like it was some greater travesty since Malheur was the "model refuge for the entire country." What a bunch of crap. By all means, come out and visit the refuge. Most will claim that its at its best in the spring, but I actually find it better in the fall just before duck season opens when the migration is in full effect and (usually) there is adequate water. Maybe at least you will be better suited than Jon Beck and his supposed open mind to comment on the status of said refuge."

I'm not sure that's a fair criticism. I've been to the refuge and to the BLM lands in the Burns area as well. Best friend was the Sheriff in Haines for many years - right next door so to speak. If anyone hasn't been there, try and time it for the Sandhill Crane migration. It's about as impressive as anything.

However, on to the point. Jon Beck reads the news, like we all do. That's where most of us get most of our info. We don't have to meet Bernie Sanders, Trump or Hillary personally to comment on a policy or other issue about them do we? There are news dudes right there collecting current info. You saying your old 1st hand info is better than that?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Feb 12, 2016 - 11:22am PT
Who said it was old?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Feb 12, 2016 - 11:26am PT
I'm posting while pooping from the wildlife refuge visitor center bathroom right now.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Feb 12, 2016 - 11:28am PT
Seriously, do you not see the irony (or hypocrisy) of proclaiming that the Malhuer Refuge is the pinnacle of cooperation between ranchers and feds in the context of the Hammond's decades long fight to keep their land culminating in arson charges and prison sentences? And they are just the only ones that ended up in jail. The rest of them just gave up and left having sold their land.

So, are you saying that its a model of cooperation....except for that messy bit with the Hammonds? But otherwise its a love-in?

The comments were stupid or disingenuous. Take your pick, it matters not to me.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Feb 12, 2016 - 11:49am PT
Take the gloves off.....send them to the other side. They probably have some primitive religious beliefs about heaven, let them check it out.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Feb 12, 2016 - 11:52am PT
Escopeta posted
So, are you saying that its a model of cooperation....except for that messy bit with the Hammonds? But otherwise its a love-in?

The comments were stupid or disingenuous. Take your pick, it matters not to me.

It is both stupid and disingenuous to argue that repeated arson on public land is the model of cooperation, it's true.
franky

Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
Feb 12, 2016 - 11:58am PT
The only fight they had to keep their land was a financial one. Like I said ages ago in the thread, the federal government doesn't take land. Granted, they probably couldn't afford their land without federal handouts and heavily subsidized grazing.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 12, 2016 - 11:58am PT
He came to troll
But stayed to rant
monolith

climber
state of being
Feb 12, 2016 - 12:01pm PT
One arsonist ranchers relationship with the BLM does not define the relationships of all the other ranchers and entities with the BLM.
Spiny Norman

Social climber
Boring, Oregon
Feb 12, 2016 - 01:14pm PT
Indeed. Equating the Hammonds or the Bundys to ranchers in general is a disgraceful slander.
Spiny Norman

Social climber
Boring, Oregon
Feb 12, 2016 - 01:48pm PT
Bundy Militia Indictment BINGO!
kattz

climber
Feb 12, 2016 - 07:05pm PT
Old Cliven had been spending too much time sitting holed up in his ranch and on Facebook....obviously had lost all contact with reality...forgot that any property is really just rented from the government... including his ranch. Alone, he could have had some insanity defense, but it'll be hard when his kids are involved too.
He should have done it like John Joe Gray instead, may be they'd let him sit it out....
WyoRockMan

climber
Grizzlyville, WY
Feb 12, 2016 - 07:15pm PT
https://www.hcn.org/articles/malheur-occupation-oregon-ammon-bundy-public-lands-essay

Most likely the best piece of writing and summary of the whole affair.

"
Instead, the nature of evil is to take a truth and twist it, sometimes as much as 180 degrees. Love of country becomes hatred of those we believe don’t share our devotion, or don’t share it the same way. The natural right of armed self-defense becomes the means to take over a wildlife refuge, to exert tyranny on those who work there, or those who love the place for the nature it preserves in a world replete with man’s endeavors. The U.S. Constitution, one of the most liberal and empowering documents ever composed, becomes, with just a slight annotation or interpretation, the tool of our own enslavement.
"
kattz

climber
Feb 12, 2016 - 07:23pm PT
Looking at their Facebook....these cowboys seem to be popular with the ladies :/
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