Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 31 of total 31 in this topic |
Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 31, 2006 - 05:24pm PT
|
lazide writes:
I have a petzl calidris harness I currently use for the gym (2-3 nights a week, often lead falls) which previously has seen 3+ years outdoors, 500-800+ routes? but few falls. It is showing some signigant wear - would you be interested in testing it to destruction and posting what you find?
The belay loop on that harness did look pretty worn. I would guess most of us would use it, but do an edge check for every rap..... I pulled it to 4000lbs with no signs of duress. Survey says bomber. The harness looks to be in better shape than you think. I'll test it later and maybe try to pull off the leg loops since this seems to be the prefered place to back up your rap these days.
I also have some 2 year old mammut slings with light fuzzing, and some 5mm spectra cordalettes and at least as old spectra cam slings (5mm cord) - how about those?
The Mammut cord was pulled to 4200lbs and there was some fiber separation at the points where the biners were. Here are 2 pics:
The Mammut sling is rated to around 4800lbs.... survey says, bomber.
The Spectra cords are featured in this short movie:
http://www.fishproducts.com/supertopo/sling_test1.mov
and here is a pic of the results:
The 5.5mm spectra broke at 2750lbs looped to each other. It may not sound like a lot, but it is probably more than your spleen can take... survey says.... kinda bomber??
They are all at a level of wear I would suspect most people would consider 'ok' and would consider climbing on them, but it seems that could be a fatal decision in light of recent events.
Looking at the stuff real quick style, I would use any of it and most of it looks better than the stuff I use all the time. I'll keep pulling the stuff and post any finds along with a final report to this thread.
More tests: Same spectra as above. Girth hitched to each other:
Broke at 2050.... your spleen might live through this. Survey says: don't girth these if you plan on ripping onto them.
|
|
caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2006 - 05:36pm PT
|
that stuff looks brand new!
|
|
the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2006 - 05:49pm PT
|
kick-asssssssssss™™™
|
|
euro-brief-guy
climber
mountain view, ca
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2006 - 05:56pm PT
|
Nice sound effects.
|
|
Crimpergirl
Social climber
St. Louis
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2006 - 06:00pm PT
|
Russ: Do you have photos of the harness? Curious what it looks/looked like...
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2006 - 06:04pm PT
|
hahaha! the sound effects are from the slowmo... all real sound if you are living in slo-mo world....
I'll tell ya, when that shiit cuts loose, there is some kinda ruckus with all the widgets flapping and cable zinging and whatnot.
Crimpster: Harness would be about a 7.5 or 8 on a scale of 10. Looks real good. I'll get some pics before I draw and quarter it.
|
|
susan peplow
climber
Desperately Seeking Climbing Related Topic!!
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2006 - 06:44pm PT
|
Those sound effects really are the best part. That stuff is better than most of our rack - we should have exchanged it before the test.
My question is. Were you wearing full eye protection for these tests?
~Susan
|
|
nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2006 - 06:45pm PT
|
I hate to be a copy-cat but I simply cannot resist...
kick-assssssss™™™™
PS: stop breaking crap and get a poker game together for mid-late november. Don't forget to entice the playahs with SushiFest IV™
|
|
lazide
Big Wall climber
Bay Area, CA
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2006 - 06:48pm PT
|
Sweet! Thanks Russ!
Harness: I was more worried about the waist belt near the buckles - a bit fuzzy (about 1.5x normal thickness?) and they aren't very thick to begin with. Awesome that it is way burlier than I thought! :)
Yellow cord: was it single loop around the doubled loop of the red? (just wondering why one failed so badly and the other untouched)
Thanks again!
Edit: More pics added! Schweet!
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2006 - 06:51pm PT
|
Lazide:
Yeah.. the yellow cord was just a loop as you sent it, and then I put the red cord through it with the red doubled to reduce its length by 1/2 to fit in my apparatus. Clipped each end and then pulled them.
Notice how the girth is busting at pretty good margin below the looped slings....
Girth = bad (or as bad as 2000lbs will do for ya)
Jaybro edit:
These are more like "everyman" tests instead of the lab variety. Our sample size is like one or two.... All I'm really looking for something way out of the ordinary compared to the condition of the gear, ie: good looking belay loop blows at 1200lbs or something. This is close to the lowest level of science you could find and any real ME would probably fall right out of his CrazyCreek Chair laughing, but I'm sure it tells us something about the gear.
Locker style edit:
Here is the harness stuff:
From Lazide: Petzl Corax harness. New in 2002. LOTS of use. Average of 2 gym days a week for 4 years. Maybe 1000 pitches of trad, sport and some aid witha few chinmeys and OW pitches. Repeated falls in the gym on lead, a few sport falls (10?) No walls.
Clipped into the main clip in point on the front of the harness with a biner. Started to pull. Noticed stitches ripping fairly soon. This was due to the different stretch ratios of the materials. The main webbing is sewn to some other webbing and all the way around the padded waist area. All these have different stretch values. All the initial stretch induced ripping stopped about 2100lbs. Continued to pull and had catastrophic failure at 3200lbs. The buckles never slipped. What is odd is that the webbing broke between the buckle and the main body of the harness. I thought it would have broken at the buckle. There was also about a 30% failure of the stitches that make up the tie in point on one side. Anyway, 3200lbs for just the waist belt, no leg loops involved. Survey says, wish it was more, but should be more that adequate.
As for the leg loop as a backup for your prussik or whatever while rappeling..... If you just clip your prussik onto the top of the leg loop (like I have seen many people do) the numbers ain't that good. Stitches started to blow at 340lbs and there was a total failure where you are out of the system completely at 800lbs. Survey says, at least use the main leg loop clip in point if you are going to use this method.
Mountain Man edit:
While pulling on this stuff there was some failures I did not expect..... like these giant lap links that just opened up at about 4500 - 4800lbs.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2006 - 08:54pm PT
|
Anecdotal evidence is better than nothing.
And something tells me a lot of people will be replacing their harnesses in the next few months.
Cheers Russ
|
|
TradIsGood
Fun-loving climber
the Gunks end of the country
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2006 - 08:57pm PT
|
Cool stuff! Keep it coming.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2006 - 09:02pm PT
|
Russ
Can you speed up the frames per sec on the digital camera in the record mode and then play them back at normal?
You will then get slow motion results. That would be cool.
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2006 - 09:06pm PT
|
Naw... the frame rate is what it is.... what you see *is* way slowed down.... like way..... but the thing goes off like a bullet when it blows. Even when I do it frame by frame, it is like a magic trick...POOF!!! Gone! We need one of those ESPN high speed jobs where you can see the stitches on a 94 MPH fastball as it comes to the plate.....
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2006 - 09:18pm PT
|
Uh OK
We were doing 100 frames a second on the slow motion camera. Then running at normal 24 frames a second = nice slow motion.
But! WTF do I know?
|
|
lazide
Big Wall climber
Bay Area, CA
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2006 - 09:23pm PT
|
Russ: I think the waist-belt failure can be explained by the strap fuzzing. The fuzzing is caused by me tightening and loosening the harness over and over (taking it on and off, snugging if loose, etc). The failure seems to be right in the middle of the worst of it?
That said, 3200 lbs is still way stronger than pretty much any part of me! (~14kn)
You have set my mind at ease, thanks :)
|
|
N0_ONE
Social climber
Utah
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2006 - 09:24pm PT
|
Thanks for the info!
Good stuff!
|
|
susan peplow
climber
Desperately Seeking Climbing Related Topic!!
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2006 - 09:32pm PT
|
"Continued to pull and had catastrophic failure at 3200lbs. The buckles never slipped."
Impressive. Who wants to trade a swami belt with water knot tie in for a REAL harness?
Takers....any takers?
~Susan
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
The West
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2006 - 09:39pm PT
|
"If you just clip your prussik onto the top of the leg loop (like I have seen many people do) the numbers ain't that good. Stitches started to blow at 340lbs and there was a total failure where you are out of the system completely at 800lbs"
=recent AMGA reccomendations? always sounded like Jive to me.
yay 'everyman'!
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2006 - 09:46pm PT
|
Susan... don't be silly.... the harness ( I mean swami belt) I am in right now will go to at LEAST 4000lbs. For sure.... in another 6 years or so I'll test it so you can see.
ChickenLittle edit: not kidding on the 4000lbs, right now. Damn that FISH stuff is strong!!!!!!!
Taking side bets.... "step right up...."
|
|
Crimpergirl
Social climber
St. Louis
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2006 - 10:25pm PT
|
Russ: Interested in playing with my harness? New one is en route...
The last several months, everytime I put it on, I wondered if it was a safe harness. Then I thought "aw, there is redundancy built into these things...."
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2006 - 10:59pm PT
|
I was wondering how many guys like yerself Russ & Malcom maybe, might get some requests to bust up some stuff.
I have some solid stemmed friends, rigged with 1" tubular and bartacked by you 19.5 years ago. They are still in service. Wanna bust a loop or two?
Also, my harness, um, made by moi, is 12-15 years old, and has a 9/16" super tape belay loop, with, well, a lil' nick in it.
This cud be embarrasing & interesting, (both beat wakin' up dead); wanna bust that too?
Lemme get out my responses now:
-sheesh, I knew that stuff was still bomber!
or will it be-
-honest, I was gonnah retire it real soon, plus I don't really weight it...
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2006 - 11:18pm PT
|
Roy, I'm sendin ya a new harness for Kimas. No, I'm sendin it on the morrow. Cuz I luv ya baby!
Russ: That gear pulling is something. Always exciting action. Lemme know when ya get that poker game going. I'd really like to fly in. If gals are allowed, that is. That would be some big time fun!
|
|
rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2006 - 11:23pm PT
|
Very interesting! How about breaking the belay loop while you're at it?
Edit: Oops, missed the first line. Tested to 4,000 lbf without failing.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2006 - 11:29pm PT
|
Roy: Your 19 year old solid stem Friends may themselves be worn out, forgetting about their slings. Just like a few of mine. The axles get worn and weakened, apparently. Your harness sounds rather - alpine. :)
Maybe we should have big ST parties at climbing test labs - BD, Trango, Fish, etc. Those who live nearby can bring a bunch of old stuff, and maybe some food and beer, and a sober technician can bust it all while we hoot and holler. Maybe some dogs and stuff, too. (Ron can bring his arsenal, and Junior.) I bet we'd learn a lot, not all of it amusing.
Anders
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2006 - 11:34pm PT
|
Then there's the rusted out rear shock towers in my 74 BMW...
|
|
lazide
Big Wall climber
Bay Area, CA
|
|
bump for the cool pics....
|
|
Holdplease2
Big Wall climber
Yosemite area
|
|
Good point. However, there are some times when that backup could be loaded with more than 800 pounds. Those are circumstances where it would not be playing the role of just "backup break hand".
Examples would be:
Your belay loop breaks (highly unlikely)
You threaded only one strand of rope thru your biner when loading your ATC (possible)
You come unclipped from your belay device. (how on earth...)
Your belay device/biner breaks (incredibly unlikely, but has happened with fig 8 belay devices, if I remember properly)
Anyway, its possible, though it seems like in most cases it would be just a "backup break hand."
-Kate.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
The West
|
|
19.5 yrs old = old= n00b, haha.
I have a first run, original model #2 freind (~78?) with it's cherry (tied) sling. I have fallen on it within the last calendar year, to no negative effect. Yeah, there was something newer backing it up.
I had assumed newer cordage would make it bomber, thoughts? In a way, I'd like to see how it would test out. But it's my oldest freind and I don't really want to wreck history.
more thoughts?
Might trade slightly newer stuff ( I have I have 6 original 2,5's for example) to a testor, for brand new cams.
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
19.5:
that's just the age of the slings and was mussy's color code upgrade proj suggestion that afternoon.
Some of those cams, well...
I got 'em from that Abalakov guy summer' of '64, (when I was in nursery school yah)
...Way before he showed the idea to Jello.
|
|
GhoulweJ
Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
|
|
JayBro
Axels wear on those babies. Check it good!... Then don't fall.
|
|
| Messages 1 - 31 of total 31 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!