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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Nov 28, 2015 - 09:41pm PT
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Cool.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 28, 2015 - 09:49pm PT
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Suppose that you had to self belay up the end of a free climb because your partner was unconscious or couldn't belay you for some reason. If you have a belay device like most climbers do then this is really the best way to get the job done.
I used a Sticht plate with spring back in 1984 but most belay devices will work and you really don't even need to use a locking carabiner to hold the stack of loops on the side of your harness. A Grigri or the equivalent will also work if that's what you already belay with.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 29, 2015 - 02:24am PT
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Didn't Ammon just use an unmodded grigri for all his fast El Cap solos?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Nov 29, 2015 - 06:21am PT
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Hey Steve, with your system, does one have to a clip an assortment of looped cord onto their harness and then unclip a loop as u you ascend?
Like this....
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rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
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Nov 29, 2015 - 07:06am PT
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twin cloves for real.
done this for a 100 pitches in desert, cheap, reliable, and cheap.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Nov 29, 2015 - 07:08am PT
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Rick d.....
Did you take any sustained falls with your twin clove hitch rig?
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Mad Max
Trad climber
Bakersfield
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2015 - 08:21am PT
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So what I'm getting from all of you guys is:
"Yer gonna die!"
Amiright?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 29, 2015 - 08:23am PT
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I used a single side biner with no more than five or six single strand loops (about ten feet each in length) clipped into it at a time so much less bulky than what you have shown here. I would have to stop every fifty feet or so and restack knots.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Nov 29, 2015 - 08:39am PT
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Steve...
That is another issue that I personally did not like about your particular system.
With the Solo-Aid or the new "Altered" Gri Gri rig, the rope runs free from a well stacked bucket below ya and no additional weight is added to your already clusterfked harness and chest rack.
Below is a drawing of my system...
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 29, 2015 - 08:46am PT
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Winter, solo aid practice.....aren't there a ton of abandoned gulags in Siberia in need of campground hosts?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 29, 2015 - 08:46am PT
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The downside of the Soloaid system as I understand it is that if you happen to fall and end up upside down then the rope will continue to feed through checked only by the rope weight below. I've never used one. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable leaving the lead line stacked below as you have shown.
I am only describing the setup that worked for me thirty years ago and may work cheaply for Mad Max as he seeks glory on the Solo Road.
We're all gonna die...
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Nov 29, 2015 - 08:51am PT
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Steve,
That is why one attaches a locker or small pulley on and allows the lead to run through their chest rack. Learned that one from an way older solo rig set up described by Norman Kingsley in his older Icecraft Book as well as RR's 2nd book, Advanced Rockcraft.
Have taken well over two dozen 30plus footer whips over a 12 year period with that rig and have NEVER had that issue you described occur.
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Mad Max
Trad climber
Bakersfield
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2015 - 08:52am PT
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So I'm thinking the Silent Partner with a few clove hitch backups, and the rest down below (making more as needed) would be a good middle-of-the-road option? I have money, so I'm willing to pay whatever I have to do to just get my ass outside and in a harness, I HATE being grounded because everyone I know flaked.
You guys are really helpful and knowledgeable, didn't know there were so many ways to go about this! Thanks a ton everyone!
Max
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 29, 2015 - 09:00am PT
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A backed up Silent Partner is one of the more popular solo systems. If done properly is about as safe as solo aid can get. Reasonably efficient as well.
One of the reasons experienced climbers can go on and on with this subject is because no one has ever developed a perfectly satisfactory system yet. They ALL have some significant drawbacks.
SOLO-Aid with the chest harness (the one The Chief is suggesting) is one I always wanted to try though.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 29, 2015 - 09:02am PT
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How many of your falls have been head first, at least initially?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Nov 29, 2015 - 09:06am PT
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Mad Max...
I recommend that you give each different method a go on a well controlled environment, take some small whips on em each, and then figure out which best suites your fancy.
That is what I did for over a two month period till I finally settled with the Solo-Aid rig which I describe.
On a side note, finding a system that works and keeps you from dying when you do take a fall, is what truly matters. Everything is just fine till that moment comes and you suddenly hear that infamous..
PIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING
EDIT:
How many of your falls have been head first, at least initially?
I am confused at your question Steve. I always maintained a vertical posture, Head up, when I climbed. Whether solo or with a partner.
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Gene
climber
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Nov 29, 2015 - 09:07am PT
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Steve,
My understanding is that the Solo-Aid handles inverted falls just fine. It's the Soloist that is not so good for head first whippers.
Comments anyone?
g
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Alpamayo
Trad climber
Davis, CA
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Nov 29, 2015 - 09:12am PT
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Steve,
My understanding is that the Solo-Aid handles inverted falls just fine. It's the Soloist that is not so good for head first whippers.
Comments anyone?
g
Yes. This^^ I have done a fair amount of soloing on a soloist and a silent partner. All these other methods (knots, Grigri..) have worked fine for me as long as it is all aid. As soon as I nee to free climb, nothing has worked better than the Silent Partner. And you don't need to have all those knots attached to your harness either.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Nov 29, 2015 - 09:13am PT
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Gene...
Precisely. But having the back up chest rigged assures that it will do so each and every time.
At least that is what I did for insurance per the older advice of both Kingsley and RR in their books that spoke about soloing rig set-ups.
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Mad Max
Trad climber
Bakersfield
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2015 - 09:15am PT
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Quick question about the huge mess of clove hitched biners as backups:
Does that gear loop need to be weight bearing? Or is the plan to just get them stuck in the device should it fail (sending a huge arc of spaghetti nightmare over the land, should the gear loop fail as well). I have a Waldo Safe Tech so I won't have that issue, but I have other harnesses that aren't made like that that I could be using as well, so it caught my attention.
Cheers,
Max
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