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High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 27, 2016 - 09:36am PT
Congrats future POTUS...


Welcome to the world, little Dutch!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Feb 27, 2016 - 11:21am PT
I suspect his point is that he's multi-talented. He can be a OPR as well as a OLR
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Feb 28, 2016 - 08:05pm PT
Have fun watching this cutie (she knows more than you do…)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSOVIKi-RgI



And if you actually want to understand what is going on in Syria, check out the web site of this US Marine:

https://medium.com/news-politics/a-marine-in-syria-d06ff67c203c#.hy09lvtem

He who has not lived in the years before the revolution cannot know what the sweetness of living is.
— Talleyrand, via Bertolucci, from the 1964 film Prima della Rivoluzione

IRAQ, LIBYA, SYRIA… Countries ripped apart through sectarian and political violence in the aftermath of cataclysmic external interventions: American invasion and occupation in Iraq, NATO intervention in Libya, and international proxy war in Syria. Mere mention of these countries conjures images of sectarian driven atrocities and societal collapse into the abyss of a Hobbesian jungle. And now it is commonplace to just assume it’s always been so. Increasingly, one hears from all corners of public discourse the lazily constructed logic, “but they’ve always hated each other”… or “violence and conflict are endemic to the region.” But it was not always so — I found a place of beauty, peace, and coexistence in a Syria that is now almost never acknowledged, and which risks being forgotten about. But Syrians themselves will never forget.

I SERVED IN THE MARINE CORPS during the first years of the Iraq War and was a 9/11 first responder while stationed at Headquarters Battalion Quantico, 2000–2004. I thought I knew something about Iraq upon the start of our new “war on terror:” Arab culture, with its intrinsic primal religious passions and resulting sectarian divisions, must be brought to heel under Western values of pluralism, secularism, and equality if peace and stability are to ever have a chance. This was a guiding assumption among the many Marine officers, active and retired, that I conversed with during my years at Quantico. Iraqis and Middle Easterners were, for us, abstractions that fit neatly into categories learned about by viewing a C-SPAN lecture, or perhaps in a college class or two: there are Sunnis, Shia, some dissident sects, they all mistrust each other, and they all want theocratic states with their group in charge.

My first visit to the region while desiring to study Arabic in 2004, just after completion of active duty service, and while still on the inactive reserve list, began a process of undoing every assumption I’d ever imbibed concerning Middle East culture, politics, and conflict. An initial visit to Syria from Lebanon was the start of something that my Marine buddies could hardly conceive of: Damascus became my second home through frequent travel and lengthy stays from 2004 to 2010, and was my place of true education on the real life and people of the region. While fellow service members were just across Syria’s border settling in to the impossible task of occupying a country they had no understanding of, I was able view a semblance of Iraq as it once was through the prism of highly stable Ba’athist Syria.
The other dominating interest that drew me to Syria was the country’s ancient churches and Christian communities. Discovery of the much neglected truth that the region has always been much more diverse than tends to be acknowledged did much to undo the false assumptions of my Texas Baptist childhood. I must admit that I grew up with the usual American stereotypes of the Middle East. To most Americans, the notion of Middle Eastern Christianity sounds like an oxymoron — or is at the very least highly suspect. Many Arab and Eastern Christians are asked, upon arriving in the U.S. for visit, work, or immigration, “when did you convert from Islam?” During the post 9/11 Bush years, when Syria as part of the “Axis of Evil” became a central formulation of U.S. foreign policy, such common cultural assumptions became even more deeply ingrained. How could one be a Christian and a citizen of a “rogue” Middle East state? And yet, Christians have called Syria their home for many hundreds of years prior to the foundation of the modern nation-state of Syria.
As I began to learn more about the multi-ethnic and religiously mixed kaleidoscope that is modern Syria, I marveled at how such a country could live in relative peace and stability in a region commonly perceived to be one of the most historically tumultuous and war racked on Earth, and I had to go and see for myself.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Feb 29, 2016 - 02:02am PT
^^^ Thanks for sharing that. Here's a different conversation within this thread blender.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_United_States_federal_appropriations

At least $493 billion for defense spending. That's ~ $1600+ for every man, woman, and child in this country (~300 million people).

For comparison (I just googled to get population and defense budget numbers):
 Russia has ~$81 billion for defense for 144 million people. That's about $562 for every man, woman, and child.
 China has ~ $145 billion for defense of ~ 1.4 billion people. That's about $103 per person.


So imagine if we took half of our military budget and reallocated for domestic spending. We would still be spending far more than any other country in the world, and still 8x more per person than China and almost 2x more per person than Russia.


The most obvious counter-argument is that cutting the military budget that much, we'd leave a large number of military folks unemployed... put those folks to work on domestic priorities like building roads, bridges, supertrains, groundwater replenishment systems, government IT, etc.

I would like to see a 2 year compulsory domestic service upon turning 18, paid as a military conscript would be, but without the killing people part. You would get an exemption if you enter the military, but no exemption for college. Most kids would benefit from 2 years of real world work to be motivated to study more and party less in college. A wide range of jobs could be possible- everything from keeping a chair warm at a toll booth in a national park, to various trades like plumber/electrician/mechanic, to IT jobs supporting computer and network systems, to gardening to construction to ditch digging, to administering the system itself.... imagine the wide array of services the federal government requires today, much of which is outsourced to for-profit companies.

This program, aside from decreasing unemployment and juvenile delinquency, could double as a vocational training for future career paths for folks who don't want to get a 4 year degree- or it can be the stepping stone to college for folks that didn't get on the right track out of high school. It might help reduce the cycles of poverty and drug-related employment in inner cities.



This is not even considering more corporate and rich-people taxation to fund it. And imagine with this many more people working and earning income, they're going to buy stuff like cars, food, pay rent and utilities.... THAT is the way that economic trickling works. Government spends it on normal people, normal people spend it everywhere which stimulates the economy, businesses prosper because they have more customers, and higher tax revenues pay back what was invested in the people. And we fix all the broken crap in our country and reduce crime.

Consider the "trickle down" version- tax cuts for rich and corporations... does that stimulate them to "invest" more and hire more people? Maybe, if they have a clear path to making more money by hiring more people. Or they will invest in automation technologies so they don't have to hire more people. Or they will sit on the money to be ready for a strategic acquisition so they can grow bigger, hopefully big enough to be too big to fail. Or bonuses to execs and dividends to shareholders.


Is it really so hard to see which strategy is likely to lead to have a greater stimulus effect on the economy? Not to mention help restore national infrastructure, increase employment and workforce capability, reduce crime....


When we give tax cuts to the rich, it is federal spending that goes to the savings accounts of the rich. When we grow the government to employ people, even if it is not optimally efficient in the execution (ok, even if it is half-bungled), it is still an investment that has a tangible positive effect on the daily life of a huge number of people.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 29, 2016 - 05:49am PT
NutAgain- Agreed. 2 years public service is a great idea. Among other things it would serve as a team building exercise for our country which is becoming increasingly obvious is needed as we become more and more segregated by race, class and political ideology.





Super Tuesday is tomorrow. Trump is going to sweep everything except Texas and maybe Oklahoma. Clinton is going to take everything except Vermont. Trump makes himself increasingly the candidate of white supremacy as he barely and painfully only sort of dismissively disavowed David Duke's endorsement of him.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 06:48am PT
hddj, hilarious!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Feb 29, 2016 - 06:51am PT
Just so I understand the plan clearly. You guys want to defund (or reduce funding) to the military, but in its place you would require a 2 year mandatory conscription, in the military?

So, does that mean that you were upset with the elimination of slavery then? How could you not argue that a 2 year conscription is anything less than temporary slavery....with the possibility of permanence for those that don't come back alive.

Since when did people become a national resource? Is this supposed to be a way to serve their community? To me it sounds like the government serving itself, to massive human capital.

People will voluntarily defend a country worth defending. No one, especially not the government, has the right to force another group to give up 2 years of their life - and possibly their life in total - without their consent.

We can only hope that the Supreme Court would hold that idea as unconstitutional under the 13th amendment.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 29, 2016 - 06:57am PT
Escopeta does a good job of demonstrating the lack of connection that many Americans have with the reality of what makes us a country or what allows us to have so many of the freedoms that we do have. This "nobody has the right to make me do anything I don't want to under any circumstance" vein of American selfishness is increasingly common I think.

Escopeta, please expound on the idea that conscription is slavery and reference law wherever possible. Nazi references would probably also be useful. Also explain how conscription has never been struck down under the 13th Amendment. Reference as much maritime law as necessary.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Feb 29, 2016 - 07:07am PT
+1 Escopeta
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 29, 2016 - 07:09am PT
Press gangs rock! Go Navy!
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 29, 2016 - 07:35am PT
Escopeta posted
No one, especially not the government, has the right to force another group to give up 2 years of their life - and possibly their life in total - without their consent.

You can edit some italics in there too if you want it won't change the fact that currently the government does have that right.



Trump has more strongly disavowed his endorsement by the KKK and Duke claiming his original response was due to a "faulty earpiece."
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 29, 2016 - 07:58am PT
So imagine if we took half of our military budget and reallocated for domestic spending



TOO much KOOL AID NutAgain!
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 29, 2016 - 08:04am PT
Now Trump is complaining because he disagreed with Duke "all weekend long on Facebook and Twitter and it's still not enough." A WHOLE WEEKEND! On Twitter!!! I mean what more do people want? Acknowledgement of systemic racism and clear leadership/policies to address it? I mean COME ON people...let's be reasonable here!
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Feb 29, 2016 - 08:31am PT
I hate Anaheim Nazis.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-kkk-rally-stabbings-wanted-20160229-story.html

A small group of people representing the Klan initially announced that it would hold the Saturday rally in the city where the group was once powerful.

Police expected about 20 people to show up at the rally.

Hours before the protest was to begin, several dozen anti-KKK protesters had arrived to stage a counter-demonstration.

About 12 p.m., several men in black garb with Confederate flag patches arrived in an SUV near the edge of the park. Fighting broke out moments after they got out of the car. Some of the protesters could be seen kicking a man whose shirt read “Grand Dragon.”

At some point, an anti-KKK protester collapsed on the ground bleeding, crying that he had been stabbed.

Two other anti-KKK protesters were also stabbed during the melee — one with a knife and the other with an unidentified weapon, Wyatt said.

The three stabbing victims were hospitalized in stable condition, police said.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Feb 29, 2016 - 08:34am PT
Pyro, perhaps I'm missing the joke and misinterpreting you... But Everyone else is drinking the KoolAid if per-capita military spending double other high spenders is still not enough.

What is the rational justification for that?

It is a blatant admission that we want to use lethal physical force to make the world submit to our wishes. That (edit: level of) force is not necessary to defend our boundaries, but it is necessary to influence other countries to be favorable for American business. (Edit: Among many other things good and bad,) we are a country of thugs and others who look away while sticking out our hands for what the thugs get us.

That is the basic problem with trying to use logic. People are trying hard to not see the truth because that would demand some sort of change and people don't want to give up the benefits of America being a bully in the world. And they don't want to see the real costs either.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 29, 2016 - 12:43pm PT
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 01:30pm PT
hddj, that is kick-ass funny!!

.....

"I think there are plenty of folk who do 'look the truth in the eye' so to speak, and decide... we got here through force. And we'll stay here through force. Tough sh#t if the world don't like it." -dingus

I think this is spot on.

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 29, 2016 - 01:32pm PT
It is a blatant admission that we want to use lethal physical force to make the world submit to our wishes.

we don't use force we protect freedom.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Feb 29, 2016 - 01:51pm PT
Pyro, are you by chance related to Werner Braun?
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Feb 29, 2016 - 02:04pm PT
DMT, I think your perception is pretty dialed in on the folks who like being on the "winning" side of the empire (Trump supporters). For these folks, there is a disconnect from reality, and their allegiance is like being a fan of a sporting team without empathy or consideration for the perspective on the other side. War is not like the superbowl.

It would be interesting to understand the other side in more detail:
 hand-wringers who don't want to be bad, but in the end support whatever we have to do to keep our life comfortable (Hillary supporters)
 head-in-the-sand folks who are not pro-Empire, but who are just more focused on other issues (religion, abortion, xenophobia) - Republicans of some sort?
 folks who object in principle to the Empire and are willing to vote/act on those objections. Bernie supporters


Kind of timely on the military themes... listen to the explanation. Co-Chair of Democratic National Convention quitting that neutral position to endorse Bernie:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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