Advice Sought, Please Inquire Within. (Camera)

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survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 27, 2015 - 08:37am PT
I have muddled along for years with my little Olympus SZ-12, which works perfectly fine for landscape and capturing climbers that aren't moving much.

But for years I have yearned for a camera that will stop action, and be clear. Sports photography is a whole different beast, and I get nothing but blur.

This is Amber's senior year, she is a starter and team Captain, my last chance to get some truly cool basketball pictures of her.

My main problem is money, moolah, clams, shekels, green, lettuce, foldin' money, street cheese, dinero.

Since I'm an idiot, please keep any advice at about the pre-school level.

I know that depending on the subject, distance (close = higher shutter speed) and whether a subject is moving toward or away or across screen, (across screen = higher shutter speed) that there are factors that affect minimum shutter speed and aperture requirements.

I'm guessing that most modern cameras that shoot 1/100th of a second will also shoot 1/1000th of a second?

Anyway, what cameras will do the job without spending a ton of dough? And remember, I'm very interested in ease of operation and simplicity.

Thanks for any advice!!
this just in

climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
Nov 27, 2015 - 09:01am PT
Sony A6000 Bruce. This thing takes something like 12 shots a second if you hold the button down. And after you release it is ready for more and no lag time on the processor. 24.3 megapixels and is on sale today it looks like for 400.00. It's my next camera for sure.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Nov 27, 2015 - 09:03am PT
I was just looking at the Sony A6000 package. $699 at Best Buy with two lenses (I think the $400 price point is with wide lens only). I sort of want to wait until I can afford their FF version but that's a nice camera for not a lot of money.

One thing is for sure - I won't be going dSLR for our sUA. And I'm tempted to sell of my Canon 60D along with the underwater housing to move to mirrorless.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Nov 27, 2015 - 09:06am PT
did you ask Google:

best point and shoot for sport action

or some similar query... you get a large range of answers and prices... and some advice on what to look for...

this, probably, is not in your price range
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Nov 27, 2015 - 09:08am PT
Main thing is finding something with a good sensor at higher ISO..a (telephoto or zoom) lens with a low f-stop. Also the ability to lock your shutter speed to 1/250ish (possible a little less with good image stabilizing camera or lens) As mentioned above the ability to burst shoot several Frames per second will be important as well.

That is a solid set of parameters for indoor sports shooting. I have not actually researched what the lowest price decent quality solution there is for all that.

I do like my Canon s700 point and shoot (you can find used for around $200) I have not tried it out indoors with fast shutter speeds. I suspect it would lack due to not an exeptionally low fstop or particularly stellar high ISO sensor. I'l try it out though and see if it does better than I expect. I really use it outdoors in good lighting mostly.

Let ya know.

Good Luck!
this just in

climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
Nov 27, 2015 - 09:09am PT
I lyed only 11fps. http://m.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-alpha-a6000

I used my buddies and was blown away by the processor speed on it. Holding the shoot button down through a crux or basketball between the legs, spin move, to back flip layup is not a problem with this thing.

As nature mentioned that price is with the wider lens, but it is on sale for 200-300 off today.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Nov 27, 2015 - 09:12am PT
The Sony I really want is the Sony a7S with a whopping 409600 iso. Almost had a chance to fly one earlier this year shooting the Racing Extinction Tesla on a night shoot.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 27, 2015 - 09:13am PT
Thanks you guys! This is a great start.

Ed, yes I will spend time on the interwebbiness hunting, but I always like to ask my friends at Supertopo, where people speak my native language.

I think you're right, that camera is probably not in my price range!!


[Click to View YouTube Video]
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Nov 27, 2015 - 09:30am PT
these days technology has changed the "traditional" parameters...

you want zoom,
and highish shutter speed (depends on zoom, the closer in you zoom, the higher the shutter speed),

and a reasonably fast lens, though ISO is much better these days, so high ISO capability is desired to compensate relatively low (f2.8) lens speed...

then frames per second, though getting a camera that "anticipates" your shot is another technology fix that allows you to be slow on recognizing your shot, but gets it anyway (pre-depression images, the camera knows you're too late, but gets the image anyway, basically by shooting all the time and not saving the images until you depress the button, then it saves the ones around that time).

Another consideration is that the auto-focus is fast (or fast enough) to follow the action

and you want to be able to do it all with one hand...

Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Nov 27, 2015 - 09:36am PT
You can "fool" most cameras into bumping up its shutter speed a notch or two, even if there's no shutter priority control.

Even in the smoothest of winds, a camera flying on a kite will be moving around a hell of a lot more than one held in your hand, so I've found a couple ways to maximize shutter speed.

I back the EV down 1/3 ( you can always go back and lighten the pic afterwards if you want, to make up for it, but I've never had to ).

I set it on "sports" mode, which speeds up everything, or at least it seems to.

And I back the zoom to zero. That doesn't do anything to speed up the shutter, but it minimizes the effects of any camera movement.

I set the ISO at 100, and leave it there. This doesn't speed up the shutter either, but it gives me more capacity for cropping before the pic gets too grainy.

I don't use any auto-shake eliminator, because it causes more problems than it helps. Slows everything down.

Choosing a brightly colored subject / background really helps.

Sometimes the results surprise me.

Here's one the camera hit 1/1,250

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30901290@N03/14942709982/

And in another the camera ( correctly ) figured 1/400 was good enough

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30901290@N03/9560462644/

If I hadn't been wearing a hat, the glare reflecting off my shiny head would have doubled the shutter speed. Proof:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30901290@N03/9561438904/

The cheapest Canons are capable of 1/2,000 shutter speed. ( I don't have any experience with Canons, but a lot of people really like them ) I don't know how much you have to spend to get one with a shutter priority control, where you can set the shutter speed at whatever you think it needs to be, and the camera works its shots around that.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired Climber
Nov 27, 2015 - 10:05am PT

The cheapest Canons are capable of 1/2,000 shutter speed. ( I don't have any experience with Canons, but a lot of people really like them ) I don't know how much you have to spend to get one with a shutter priority control, where you can set the shutter speed at whatever you think it needs to be, and the camera works its shots around that.

I use Nikon DSLRs for portrait, and landscape photography, but use a Canon SX60HS(point and shoot, $500) for bird photography. It has a max shutter speed of 1/2000, and max ISO of 3200.
You don't say what your price range is, but you an get some DSLRs for around $500. That gives you more flexibility.
A 1/2000 shutter speed should be fine unless you are shooting races.
If you shoot at too high an ISO you start getting too much noise. That's more of a problem in astrophotography.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 27, 2015 - 10:11am PT
You don't say what your price range is, but you an get some DSLRs for around $500. That gives you more flexibility.

Actually I was hoping I might sneak in closer to $300....gulp

This is a bad time of year for me to be trying to do this, with the holidays and everyone's birthdays, but it is what it is, and basketball season is starting.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Nov 27, 2015 - 10:30am PT
Basically the bigger the lens the more light it pulls in so you can use a faster shutter speed and/or get better pics in lower light.

So a little 1/2" lens point and shoot will never have the capabilities of a 2" SLR.

I have a Canon T3i, older model of this http://www.costco.com/Canon-EOS-Rebel-T5i-DSLR-Camera-2-Lens-Bundle.product.100129586.html
You are welcome to borrow.

Mirrorless is the way things are moving so I don't know if I'd go this route now. Video and stills are also converging.

A big DSLR gets good pics, but is big and heavy. So it's great for shooting your kids sports from the bleachers. But isn't so good for carrying on a climb.

A modern medium quality point and shoot is probably pretty good nowadays. Like this: http://www.costco.com/Panasonic-LUMIX-ZS40-Digital-Camera-Bundle.product.100159265.html
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 27, 2015 - 10:37am PT
I could sell you a Nikon D40x in excellent shape for $150?
1/4000 shutter speed, 3 frames per second.

DPReview:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond40x
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 27, 2015 - 10:46am PT
I'm afraid to add that you would still need to buy a telephoto lens but there are a lot of Tamrons,
Tokinas and such in the $150 range. You would have to make sure its auto-focus will work
with the D40x.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Nov 27, 2015 - 11:20am PT
Just because a camera can shoot 1/1000 of a sec doesn't mean the images will be good. I mentioned lens diameter (which is a factor in the lens "speed" which is a measure of how much light the lens captures) but the sensor also matters. In the old days we had different speed films so 100 speed film worked great in bright sunlight but you may want 400 speed the shoot higher shutter speeds in lower light without blur. The trade off is the 400 film has more noticeable grain. Not as clear or good for blowing up.

Nowadays we have sensors that are always improving. So a better sensor will take better pics than a cam with same lens but less capable sensor.

Typically the dslrs have better lenses and sensors. But I haven't used a modern point and shoot so I don't know how far they've come. Whatever you do stay away from digital zoom. It's like cropping a part of what you want out of a photo you are only using part of the image so resolution goes down.

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 27, 2015 - 11:29am PT
Thanks Fet! Im gathering gathering..

Well Reilly and eKat, that didn't help my confusion much. Don't know if I'd be interested in buying a lens that would put me back above the $300 mark.

Reilly,curious why you'd sell for $150.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired Climber
Nov 27, 2015 - 12:32pm PT
I could sell you a Nikon D40x in excellent shape for $150?
1/4000 shutter speed, 3 frames per second.

Hey Reilly, I had that camera also. It was good for me at the time.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 27, 2015 - 01:13pm PT
Uh, Survival, I only play a butthole on SuperTopo.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Nov 27, 2015 - 01:25pm PT
I am cursed, I go through cameras fast . I lose them or drop them, last summer I dropped one while getting stung a dozen times.

so I never spend more than I have to.

Last month , I was stunned to find a
Cannon PowerShot SX400 IS-16mp for sale at BJ's big box store for under $100.00
It has some negative reviews - I wish I had bought two.

here is a review... It also comes in a flat black (color)

http://www.digitalcamerareview.com/camerareview/canon-powershot-sx400-review/

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