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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Nov 24, 2015 - 04:53pm PT
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So, the usual big corporate sponsorship redbull bullshit sellout? Does "Camp 4 Collective" smack of cheap capitalization?
Yes, it's gross.
I will happily sell out to any company that will pay me to go have fun! Hey Range Rover, in addition to putting your picture on my webpage I'll get a tattoo of your car on my belly if you fund a trip to South America! That goes for any of you, I'll tattoo your face on myself if you pay me to climb or fish.
These arguments come up with snowboarding and music (and any activity) often and it always makes me laugh because I would love to be a sell out, I just don't have much to sell :(
I've never understood why people involved in any recreational activity judge people making a living at it.
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SGropp
Mountain climber
Eastsound, Wa
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Nov 24, 2015 - 05:44pm PT
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There's actually an interesting back story to the Chevy car ad that was shot on top of Castleton.
Read down a bit:
http://www.oil-electric.com/2013/03/into-wild_4.html
That must have been an interesting night for the model and the mechanic stranded overnight on top of the tower.
There were actually two ads shot there. When Steve Hong and I climbed the Kor -Ingalls route in '74 there were still some debris left on top from the '72 photo shoot, which we happily cleaned up and pitched over the side.
As I remember the rappel bolts were pretty funky.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Nov 24, 2015 - 05:45pm PT
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Nice work if you can get it!
this is NEEDLESS BOLTS
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Nov 24, 2015 - 06:46pm PT
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This misunderstandings and jealousy are often intertwined with legitimate concerns on these threads.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Nov 24, 2015 - 06:54pm PT
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Boltz on loose flakes? WTF?
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Nov 24, 2015 - 08:49pm PT
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Really that's what the environmental impacts of most bolts are;C.
I have yet to see someone that studies the environment (botanists, ecologist, zoologists, chemists, geographers etc) have concern over bolts for affecting the environment. Anyone know of anyone getting research funding for the environmental effects of bolts on the atmosphere, plants etc?
Again, ...impacts on other climbers/recreational users . These people bothered by bolts have cultivated their dislike of them: hence it is cultural -- the problems exist in their heads only. There are likely no significant physical measurements to show bolts are hurting/disrupting the ecosystem. Some of the people that cultivate the idea that bolts are atrocious become incessant complainers to land managers that are paid to politely listen to these type of complaints. The land managers may make cultural adjustments to grease the squeaking wheel--rules.
for the Fet: The Republicans are crying foul. Is this an environmental impact? Or is it a cultural condition? Or the Hall effect?
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overwatch
climber
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Nov 24, 2015 - 08:58pm PT
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Oohgee dizzle Representing the never was? Just wringing your hands the other way
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Nov 24, 2015 - 09:07pm PT
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Has Erik Sloan been arrested yet?
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Nov 24, 2015 - 09:08pm PT
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Moose,
was it the bolts or the moving tight rope that wore the groove?
I am sure you have seen how sand stone is damage by repealing and top roping.
How much does this "damage" alter the local ecosystem?
Our significant world environmental problems are more than few grooves in sandstone.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Nov 24, 2015 - 09:19pm PT
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Why wouldn't a bolter have this opinion?
These people bothered by bolts have cultivated their dislike of them: hence it is cultural -- the problems exist in their heads only. There are likely no significant physical measurements to show bolts are hurting/disrupting the ecosystem. Some of the people that cultivate the idea that bolts are atrocious become incessant complainers to land managers that are paid to politely listen to these type of complaints. The land managers may make cultural adjustments to grease the squeaking wheel--rules.
Dingus? Perhaps you live in bolt-culture, and thus think you have to defend their use,-------- anywhere for any use?
Please correct me if I am wrong?
I've placed bolts on lead, but I have no desire to defend all placements of bolts.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Nov 24, 2015 - 09:21pm PT
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Moose,
cars have been used to kill people -- are they a concealed weapon?
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Nov 24, 2015 - 09:25pm PT
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Fritz,
I am arguing that bolts have cultural impacts but very likely do not have impacts that alter the ecosystem/environment. We are all permitted to wear the clothes we choose but we cannot say our clothes make the sun set.
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overwatch
climber
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Nov 24, 2015 - 09:26pm PT
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That would be open carry
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Nov 24, 2015 - 09:35pm PT
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Dingus? I'm curious about your opinion?
Do you think the bolts Donini mentions in his opening post, on Castleton Tower, should be left in place with their hangers? Even though a party competent enough to summit Castleton Tower, had to be rescued, after rappelling off those bolts?
I do believe that question is what this whole thread is about?
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Nov 24, 2015 - 09:45pm PT
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Fritz,
you are driving down a section of Interstate new to you and see an exit -- do you think it is the exit you need? You would consult the GPS or map. Just because you are competent to drive doesn't mean you know a priori where the right exit is.
Suppose you took the wrong exit and had an accident involving the ambulance. Should the exit be closed to all future drives?
Or is the exit now an environmental disaster because you had an accident?
I think Werner knows who is stupid.
I would say the rescued party demonstrated they were not competent in getting down something you cannot walk off.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Nov 24, 2015 - 10:08pm PT
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Dingus I think you are conflating the ecosystem and the environment. The ecosystem is a subset of the environment. Something can have an impact on the environment but not on the ecosystem. For example a new development in a city may require an environmental impact report and that report may idenifty a significant environmental impact such as destroying a historical building or causing traffic problems. There's a big human component to the environment.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those bolts. But bolts do impact the experience of other users, and that's a type of environmental impact. Even if it's a minor impact. And it should be considered. Not just brushed under the rug because it's not as important to humanity as say deforestation.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Nov 24, 2015 - 10:09pm PT
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Dingus? Cut the bullschist.
I'm not questioning your history &/or bolting morals.
And we don't need any more parables.
I'm just questioning if you are defending those bolts & hangers, that were left on Castleton Tower?
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Nov 24, 2015 - 10:32pm PT
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Good thread.
Too bad about the rescue but I think highliners have the same right as climbers. Actually, they are climbers with an asterix.
Climbers Beware
Highliners will be leaving bolts on top of things.
You will experience personal discomfort if you attempt to use them for the rap down.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Nov 24, 2015 - 11:08pm PT
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Fritz,
Needless bolts left on Castleton Tower ...
Needless... -- kind of a leading question isn't it? Judgemental?
you ask, Am I defending those bolts & hangers, that were left on Castleton Tower?
I will let each party decide the level of safety they want. I suppose that is defending their installation.
It seems you are assuming the issue is with "bolts left"[hangers] not "needless". Anyone can readily take the hangers.
Are they now needless? Yes, until someone wants to use 'em. Just like rappell bolts.
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