The Duality Of Man. My Personal Duality. The Struggle.

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couchmaster

climber
Oct 12, 2015 - 08:54pm PT


Yeah, I got a couple of books that detail my relatives "work" that I never thanked them for and they didn't want to discuss. Understandably. Not a "big deal". They survived and that was enough for them. The "duality" as you say, was there for you, me and for them as well. They had issues, but they had to show up to the dance anyway... just because. All of those guys were volunteers, not a draftee in the bunch. My dad had actually volunteered twice, having been in pre-war Army-air corp (now called the Air Force) - then tossed out the first time for some minor medical thing, they reconsidered once Hitler stepped up to the plate and accepted him in the 2nd time as it started to get nasty. Life is complex, none of us can lay a pure rift down about what is truth or not truth. Maybe Werner can try, but I don't know. But it's OK man, none of us can call life out for the other guys. It's too complex. It's a struggle. A nasty, very brutal one on occasion. A blissful amazing happy one on other occasions. I am agreeing with the sediment you expressed, not arguing against it. That's all. (thread title). But no worries.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2015 - 08:56pm PT
Amen.

couchmaster

climber
Oct 12, 2015 - 08:58pm PT

Perfect expression. "Amen" back at ya. May your life be long and fruitful.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2015 - 09:10pm PT
Same to you couch.

This summer I volunteered at my second Stand Down event, for veterans who need services and often don't know how to get them, or even what they're eligible for.

Good company, a few laughs, and some people that understand. Talk about some duality and struggle, its all there, but I love it.
couchmaster

climber
Oct 12, 2015 - 09:55pm PT

Don't know what "Stand Down" is but good on you for pitching in. I too, got sucked into (long story) volunteering with the VA hospital. 4 years. Give or take. Well over 35 years or so back or so. Not worth discussing. Dickens already layed that rift down.
"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity....."




There are a few interesting memories I treasure, and one I'll share that just came to mind. There was a womens auxiliary called "The Cooties" that were always up there at the VA Hospital. They even had hats proudly identifying them as both a volunteer and a "Cootie". They'd bring yumies and help out anywhere they were needed. Get guys books, or just visit with them if they were lonely. I admit I sort of took them for granted at the time. I still chuckle at Edna, she volunteered with the Cooties, and was maybe 70-80 years old at that time, very old, it seemed, to my young ass. Old old old for sure. But she was so sweet and kind. I asked Edna one day: "Why do you guys call yourself Cooties Edna".

"Why dear", she kindly replied, "it's because we stick to our men"...and her eyes twinkled and she all but lit up in happiness as she finished pitching the ultimate punchline and waited for my response of laughter. All I had was the blank cow in the field look though.

"But Edna, what does that mean? What is a Cootie?" (BTW, I'd played the game Cootie many times as a pup, you'd think I'd have figured this out already) The game we played is pictured below"

She stopped smiling as she looked at my blank countenance and knowing I was truthful and not pulling her leg said: "Well", she quietly and sincerely said, "Cooties are lice dear, all of the men had them in the trenches and could never shake them off or get rid of them".

I started laughing at her response, and I haven't stopped laughing about it since.
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
Oct 12, 2015 - 10:42pm PT
Duality?? Bullshite, that concept/feeling arises when you carry the past.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2015 - 04:26am PT
Carrying the past is how we remember the terrible mistakes we have made and try not to repeat them.

It's how we remember all the love we have been shown by our family and try to repay it.

It's how we remember all the many roads we have been down with old friends and honor them.

It's how we recognize that men havent always been kind to the land and create national parks.

It's why monuments and the Tomb Of The Unknown Soldier matters.

The Chief

climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
Oct 13, 2015 - 07:05am PT
Duality?? Bullshite, that concept/feeling arises when you carry the past.

For many of us, the past is the present. That is our reality.

The duality of it all comes when folks in this present keep telling us not to live, in the past.

Of which, we have no choice in.




I think Bruce (Survival) can truly understand and comprehend that. I know that he has seen it not only in his time in the shet, but lately when doing the deed with those that are stuck, "Living in the past".






Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Oct 13, 2015 - 09:01pm PT
Survival: Thanks again for the great thread, your introspection, & the very interesting comments from other posters.

It's always interesting to see how many of our WWII Vet fathers never talked about their war experiences around their children.

In 1943 my father was in his late 20’s, deaf in one ear, had a 2 year old child, & was working in agriculture, providing food for our armies.

He was drafted late in 1943, & got to invade Okinawa in April 1945 with the Army. All I ever heard about his war-wound was from my mother, who said a close miss from a shell-burst still got him in the back. He received a small disability check every month.

I grew up in the ski-resort town of Ketchum/Sun Valley Idaho, & my parents had several close friends who were in the 10th Mountain Division. When we had family get-togethers & big drinking parties for the adults, I never heard a war story.

I never really thought about why none of these folks shared their war-stories.

Maybe, it was just too hard, or too bitter, or in the 1950’s WWII was too recent to talk about?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2015 - 08:19am PT
No problem Fritz.

Strange, my dad, and particularly my uncle, who survived torpedoes and a kamikaze, aboard the second USS Lexington, never had trouble talking to us youngsters about this stuff. They weren't mouthy about it, but they had no trouble if it came up. They were proud to have been a part of the solution to the biggest mess in history.

Plus, they had lived through some pretty harsh times in a family of desert farmers in the depression, so being in the military may have seemed like a pretty proud step UP in the world!!
Charlie D.

Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
Oct 14, 2015 - 10:05am PT
Interesting hearing about what our fathers and their contemporaries were willing to share. My dad landed at Normandy and was in the army reserves after WWII, his unit was made active and he ended up in Korea. He was there for two years as a Lt Co with a battalion under his command.

He'd talk to his 4 sons about wars from a historic perspective and the sense of duty he and his generation had and the wars we'd likely have to fight. The Vietnam War created a huge divide in our household. Dinner table conversations would erupt into shouting matches. I feel to this day a sense of regret as to how I treated him during the late 60's and early 70's. People talk about the 60's as some sort of love fest but for me it was all about conflict, not to say I didn't have some fun times :^).

Near the end of his life while visiting we were enjoying a TV show on military aircraft. The program focused on different fighter planes used in various conflicts including the first use of jets in combat which was Korea. I was watching with interest and turned to ask if he had seen them in action? To may surprise dad was crying silently and when I asked him what's wrong he stared me down and said in an almost hypnotic state that they were killing his men. He became animated and angry then shouted out that he had ordered to shoot the "son of bitches" down. The scab that never healed got scratched wide open, it was friendly fire incident that he kept to himself for years.

He was a great man and this incident was just one of three times I ever saw him cry. The first when I told him my wife was pregnant, this incident and when my mom was near her death.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2015 - 10:23am PT
He'd talk to his 4 sons about wars from a historic perspective and the sense of duty he and his generation had and the wars we'd likely have to fight. The Vietnam War created a huge divide in our household. Dinner table conversations would erupt into shouting matches. I feel to this day a sense of regret as to how I treated him during the late 60's and early 70's. People talk about the 60's as some sort of love fest but for me it was all about conflict, not to say I didn't have some fun times :^).

Near the end of his life while visiting we were enjoying a TV show on military aircraft. The program focused on different fighter planes used in various conflicts including the first use of jets in combat which was Korea. I was watching with interest and turned to ask if he had seen them in action? To may surprise dad was crying silently and when I asked him what's wrong he stared me down and said in an almost hypnotic state that they were killing his men. He became animated and angry then shouted out that he had ordered to shoot the "son of bitches" down. The scab that never healed got scratched wide open, it was friendly fire incident that he kept to himself for years.

He was a great man and this incident was just one of three times I ever saw him cry. The first when I told him my wife was pregnant, this incident and when my mom was near her death.


Sh#t man, there you have it. Worth saying twice in my view. Thanks for sharing that. Wow.



The Chief, I forgot to tell you that the B&W photo you posted is bad amazing.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 14, 2015 - 10:27am PT
Maybe, it was just too hard, or too bitter, or in the 1950’s WWII was too recent to talk about?

My theory is two-fold. I think the first reason is that the WWII generation
wasn't big on talking, period. Second, and my main reason, is that they
almost universally agreed that they had fought a war worth having and that
their aches and pains, physical or psychic, were prices worth paying.

My mum recently moved into a retirement home, finally, near me. I've met a
chap there who is 95 and wrote a book about 8 years ago about his years on
tincans in both the Atlantic AND Pacific theatres. He is very open about
the good and the bad. Physically he did not suffer but psychically he did
although he is quite matter of fact about it. His book is very well written,
as one might expect from a Yale English major. I assure you that you won't
be able to put it down. If anyone would like a copy he is more than happy
to hand them out and I am more than happy to pay the freight. PM me, bra!

DestroyerMan, by John T Pigott
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2015 - 10:31am PT
Sign me up right now Reilly.
Any chance the fellow will sign it for me?





The Chief: Here's one of the best images I've ever seen about this stuff.
Share it with your vet friends.


Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 14, 2015 - 10:48am PT
You got it, man. PM me with the message you want him to write.
The Chief

climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
Oct 14, 2015 - 10:49am PT
WOW Bruce...





Put serious TEARS in my eyes. That is my day ... day in day out. Has been for over 16 years now.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Oct 14, 2015 - 10:56am PT
Reilly! Hee's a link to a nice review of Destroyerman: http://www.navyhistory.org/2013/08/book-review-destroyerman/

I'm PMing you my shipping info & will be glad to reinburse you for postage.

Thanks!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2015 - 11:02am PT
Reilly, I will. Thank you. I am also happy to pay for postage.



The Chief, hang in there man. You're not alone. That's why you fish and climb and meet with fellow vets. You did your job, but it's ok to keep living and loving life. F*#king drive on Ranger.



I like this one too:
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2015 - 01:57pm PT
It's ok Timid, I think you've saved a lot of trees too!

Reilly, Chief, did you get my PM's?



Check this brother out!!! Conscientious Objector who earned the Medal Of Honor!!
The Chief

climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
Oct 14, 2015 - 02:17pm PT
Negative Bruce... did you get mine?
Messages 41 - 60 of total 63 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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