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couchmaster
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 8, 2015 - 08:27am PT
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I get a lot of gear news from Outdoorgear labs. However, they are sleeping on the job this time as this biners been in the wild now for over 2 years, so I'll step up and post some shitty cell phone pictures and incomplete descriptions until someone with intelligence and elan takes over to do the proper bang up job. Short version for the reading challenged, save yourself the trouble and just run out and buy a bunch of these biners. Edelrid has changed the game for the better. Good stuff.
Long version:
Edelrid has introduced a new type of locking carabiner unlike anything on the market. They are called "sliders" to reflect the new style of lock. The locking mechanism is a small steel sliding button you slide to open and it autolocks when you release it. A picture is worth a thousand words so here's about 600 words as it's a crap photo. This is the nose detail of the smallest of the 4 versions Edelrid makes, the "Pure Slider":
Weight- claimed: 42 grams
Weight actual: 43 grams
Gate Opening: 18 mm
Major Access Gate Closed: 23 kN
Major Access Gate Open: 8 kN
Minor Axis Gate Closed: 8 kN
This is one of the easiest clipping locking biners I've seen. It reduces the time it takes to clip in a daisy to an anchor in about a fraction of a second. Superlight, superfast. Great for clipping a water bottle off on your harness so it's secure while on route but quickly accessed. Please don't ask how it works in winter or with gloves on, although early 2nd hand reports seem favorable.
Here it is next to 3 other ultralight lockers:
The 4 versions currently made. All have keylock noses and the thin barstock means that they are easy to clip the old style homemade bolt hangers with undersized holes, or you can better stuff an extra one into the tangle of other biners already in a regular hanger like on a wall.
Here is the HMS Strike Slider in the photo below next to perennial HMS favorites Petzl Attache 3D and it's twin, the CAMP HMS Nitro Carabiner. Weight wonk note: the Edelrid HMS is still light, but comes in at 64 grams vs Petzls 53 Grams (new version) and the last version of the Camp at 55 grams.
The biggest downside currently is the price, they come in at the $16 and up range for the little guys. The HMS is closer to what a Petzl Attache 3d sells for.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Does this mean I have to replace my Eiger biners?
Actually, they look light enough to actually put a few on the rack for those long slab run outs if they aren't prone to jamming.
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Scylax
Trad climber
Idaho
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Looks very interesting. Thank you for posting!
Edit: I will have to check on the weight of my favorite lightweight locker, the DMM phantom and see how it compares.
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sethsquatch76
Trad climber
Joshua tree ca
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Really cool binner!!!! I have had one for a year+.......But not a true locker.....This thing takes intention and for thought.....Gate contact with rock, rope strands, body parts.....Wants to open.....I really like it, but I wont clip clients into it as direct life support....
Cheers,
Seth Zaharias
Cliffhanger Guides
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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I have several. I use them mainly for long slings/alpine draws at the start of a runout, as insurance that they won't come unclipped in a fall, what with the vibration and gate wobble etc (the nightmare Wayne Crill scenario).
One occasional issue I've seen is that if you close the gate too gently, the gate does not close, the locking mechanism is not pushed out of the way. Only one biner, out of a half dozen, does this. It's marginal, any extra force and it closes properly. Probably my fault, climbing in the desert and getting sand in the mechanism.
And of course, simply release the gate (normal practice) so it slams shut and it engages no problem.
I like them for that one purpose, an extra safety margin for important protection. I still prefer traditional styles for important roles like belaying and rappelling etc.
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Scylax
Trad climber
Idaho
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Couchmaster,
Agree that Outdoorgearlab needs to review newer gear. I like what they do, but they are getting behind the times. Though I would imagine running the place takes a lot of time, time that they would rather spend climbing?
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couchmaster
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2015 - 12:56pm PT
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I'm sort of with you Weston on the MegaJul. The rope/biner combo is critical to its operational effectiveness. At first I hated it, then once I got the right combo I loved it. To be able to take your hands off the rope mid rap is sweet. However, a few days back I rapped a single line (10.5mm rope, Edelrid locker) and noted that it didn't stop me despite being in the locked position. What that made me consider it Jim Titts point that the braking force on it is very light/weak before it slips. Catching a big leader fall won't be happening without some serious rope burns I expect.
Now I'm reconsidering. Edelrid ropes have always blown my dress up though. In a good way, they handle so well.
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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I have the blue version of the HMS shown above. The internal wire gate on that one (but not the yellow one) serves as a secondary lock. Makes it just a bit more fumbly but it's still very light for an HMS (65g, actual), and very secure.
I would not use the others as a single belay biner. Too easy for a rope to cross over the primary lock, and open the gates without the secondary lock.
In general I prefer the new Grivel twin-gate designs to the new Edelrids.
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couchmaster
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2015 - 08:54pm PT
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Well, that's good to hear Weston. But how do you account for the Mega jul running though a single 10.5mm line with only body weight on rap and you easily caught a 30-40' fall with it?
Am I really that fat?
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Oct 16, 2015 - 02:54pm PT
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The WeighMyRack blog did had a piece on the Edelrid carabiners almost a year and a half ago. http://blog.weighmyrack.com/edelrid-slider-locking-carabiners-strike-slider-safelock-and-pure/ and video at https://vimeo.com/95803969.
Catching a big leader fall won't be happening without some serious rope burns I expect.
False. When I caught Shane's 30-35' fall on Iron Messiah there was zero rope slippage. I even was able to yard an armful or two before I caught him
Saying a fall was 30-35' doesn't, by itself, indicate a "big leader fall." "Big leader fall" means high fall factor and low system friction. I think this means bigger than fall-factor~1 and very few if any bends in the rope going up to the top biner, so among other things, you can't get a "big leader fall" on single-pitch climbs. This is one reason why Jim's observations about the relatively modest performance of various assisted braking devices (the Mega Jul being the least effective) seem to garner so much questioning from folks who have had positive experiences while operating within the Mega Jul's "autolocking" capabilities.
Of course, if the device won't hold bodyweight on rappel, you aren't fat, you've got a bad rope/carabiner combination that will indeed lead to rope burns during not-at-all-big leader falls.
The fact that the carabiner makes so much difference in the performance of assisted locking devices is one of their serious drawbacks. The intended rope-carabiner combinations have to be tested on single-strand free-hanging rappels to see whether the equipment is even minimally effective.
The problem isn't limited to assisted braking devices. I suspect many people are using an ordinary tube device with ropes that are too thin for effective braking of big leader falls---big in the sense I described above. I think everyone ought to test their setup with a single-strand free-hanging rappel to see how much assistance they are getting from their device. (For example, if you need two carabiners to make the single-strand rappel easily controllable, then you would certainly need two carabiners for belaying a big fall.)
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John Butler
Social climber
SLC, Utah
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Oct 16, 2015 - 04:14pm PT
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I've been using the HMS for belaying and the small one for anchors and what not. Just like any other locker... but:
1 - you can rotate them through hangers, chains and other tight spots way easier than other lockers
2 - they are a bit trickier to get open in a pinch sometimes
The small DMM lockers seem to be a gram or two lighter on my scale.
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AE
climber
Boulder, CO
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Oct 23, 2015 - 04:57pm PT
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I've been using the Safelock version for my primary belay system, direct to harness with a Trango Cinch. The wire mid-gate acts not only as a constraint to keep the 'biner in position on the harness webbing without risk of it rotating to a cross-gate position, but it then keeps the belay unit in the upper area of the biner where the curve is broader and not likely to snag or catch the belay device in some sideloading scenario.
There are a couple idiocyncracies about using it. First, it takes two motions together to open, making it safer as a belay biner, but more tedious and slower. You must slide the little gate latch, but at the same time flip the wire midgate divider up, because it keeps the gate from opening as well. It is not an intuitive maneuver even with practice, and is harder to do to remove from the harness than to install, and you have to hold it open while messing with the belay device and rope. I consider that a sort of belay safeguard process, while others may find it exactly the opposite.
The oddest thing is that there is no spring in the base of the gate itself - the wire midgate acts as the spring!
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Oct 23, 2015 - 07:43pm PT
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Ditto to all of AE's comments, except a reverso instead of a cinch.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Oct 24, 2015 - 08:47am PT
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Perhaps it is worth emphasizing that the Safelock version intentionally requires two coordinated actions to open the gate (hence the name) and that the other versions open with just a single swipe of the thumb on the knurled latch.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Well, that's good to hear Weston. But how do you account for the Mega jul running though a single 10.5mm line with only body weight on rap and you easily caught a 30-40' fall with it?
Definitely had the thing turned around. In the mode you had it on it runs just like a regular ATC on rap; flip it around and it's much stickier and takes a bit of getting used to. We have a mega jul too Weston. Saving up to get a second as Patty uses the one we have now on multipitch. She is 110 vs my 180lbs and we like the stopping power of the thing (we just need to make sure and have Patty properly anchored at the same time).
Looking into the locking carabiner but haven't been able to play with one yet.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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The new Grivel locking design looks interesting.
After my last desert trip at least one of my Edelrid Safelock HMS Strike Slider biners is locked shut, can't open it at all. The mechanism is so small and hidden away that removing the grit that got inside may be impossible.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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One occasional issue I've seen is that if you close the gate too gently, the gate does not close, the locking mechanism is not pushed out of the way. Only one biner, out of a half dozen, does this. It's marginal, any extra force and it closes properly. Probably my fault, climbing in the desert and getting sand in the mechanism.
I only have one Edelrid slider (the pear shaped belay biner) and this is my experience as well. I don't use it anymore for that exact reason. No self-locking biner should ever fail to lock under any kind of normal use. This is an interesting idea, but not a great design. Also, this is not a "desert use" sand-in-the-mechanism caused problem.
Curt
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MegaStoke
Trad climber
Boise, ID
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If any of you don't like your slide lockers, I'll happily take them off your hands
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