Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 - 07:41pm PT
|
continuing slaughter
In a nation of 1/3 of a billion people, that's pretty hyperbolic, I think.
I'm curious what the death toll would have to be "down to" in order for you to not call it a "continuing slaughter."
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 - 07:50pm PT
|
Fair question mad. You raised the question so I must have violated your definition for slaughter. Let's hear it. What percentage of school shooting deaths per year, in your opinion, would qualify as "continuing slaughter".
|
|
philo
climber
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 - 07:50pm PT
|
|
|
Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 - 08:02pm PT
|
Okay Chief, then tell me how we deal with "Not one of you "others" has yet to present a viable solution for that critical component of this issue." Any ideas? I'd like to hear them. At least you acknowledge there is a "critical component" to this issue.
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 - 08:08pm PT
|
Why don't you go first.
Two reasons:
1) You are the one making a claim with very loaded language. So, I'm curious what YOU take to justify that language.
2) There is no "percentage" that is a clear, bright line, as you well know. The problem is one of perception and priorities. Children are being "continually slaughtered" by cigarettes, cars, preventable accidents, childhood obesity, and a host of other causes. You don't think of THOSE as a "slaughter," but I do, and there's a LOT more of it going on.
Your "side" tries to frame the argument such that you win by the casting of the language itself. That's what I'm calling you on.
If I say, "Let's get the 'slaughter' in perspective in the grand scheme of things," your "side" always responds, "Heartless bastard," or words to that effect.
If I say, "Let's get clear about the actual causal connections rather than to pass knee-jerk laws that we ALL recognize have no direct connection to these school shootings," your "side" always responds, "Doing SOMETHING that even MIGHT have a positive effect, however small, is worth 'trying.'" And I simply disagree.
In short, you DO use loaded language to try to ramp up the "urgency" to "DO SOMETHING," when neither you nor anybody else knows WHAT to do to stop or even significantly reduce these school shootings. And, if you are honest, then you'll admit that background checks, etc. are unrelated to these incidents.
So, reasonable people like me can be forgiven (and not called or implied to be a "heartless bastard") if we remain unconvinced that doing SOMETHING is the right course of action, when that "something" is obviously unrelated to the problem at hand.
|
|
philo
climber
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 - 08:10pm PT
|
Didn't you want to put armed soldiers in every school as your "solution"
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 - 08:12pm PT
|
OK. So we know you don't consider the shootings to pose an "urgent" question. You are happy to do nothing. That is all I was asking.
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 - 08:13pm PT
|
Didn't you want to put armed soldiers in every school?
It WORKS in Riverside and San Bernardino, in the heart of gangland violence.
If you CARE (as you claim to) to actually protect the kids, then do what has been demonstrated to WORK.
It sure looks to me like your side isn't about actually solving the problem. Instead you want to USE the problem to pander to a particular agenda.
I DO care about the kids, so I'd like to get serious about alternatives that HAVE actually been demonstrated to work!
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 - 08:15pm PT
|
You are happy to do nothing.
That's exactly the sort of BS claim I was talking about, and it seriously hurts your credibility to so TOTALLY and intentionally cast my response as THAT.
I most certainly DO care! But I (unlike your "side," apparently) care to do something that HAS been demonstrated to WORK rather than blind groping at "solutions" that clearly have NOTHING to do with the problem!
|
|
philo
climber
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 - 08:15pm PT
|
So mad bolt I've asked this twice and you haven't answered. Perhaps 3rd time will be the charm.
Do you have kids?
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 - 08:18pm PT
|
It WORKS in Riverside and San Bernardino, in the heart of gangland violence.
I could not find any links supporting the above claim. Would you be so kind as to cite your sources of information?
|
|
Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 - 08:22pm PT
|
Wow, Madbolter, do you not think there is a problem? Do you have any suggestions to resolve this problem? Are things just honky dory? Aren't you getting a bit concerned for your children in school? This is bullsh#t. No where else in the civilized world do parents have to worry about their children getting killed in school. I was born in New Zealand and I have to tell you that America looks like it is f*#king insane. Really. WTF. Jesus Christ, get a grip. This is getting really f*#king stupid. Is this the wild west? Even in the wild west there were gun laws.
|
|
The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 - 08:33pm PT
|
No where else in the civilized world do parents have to worry about their children getting killed in school.
How about we start with Canada, Germany, Finland, Israel, Pakistan, Kenya, Azerbaijan, Sweden and, China!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting
I was born in New Zealand and I have to tell you that America looks like it is f*#king insane
When did you arrive in the US and become a citizen?
His statement assumes that he is THE authority on what will work and what will not work
No. My statement states absolutely nothing of the sorts. I am not the one on here stating that the issue needs immediate drastic attention. You people are and not one of you has presented anything that is a viable realistic solution to do so. Not one.
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 - 08:43pm PT
|
I could not find any links supporting the above claim. Would you be so kind as to cite your sources of information?
Sure. My mom taught at a gang-infested high school in San Bernardino for a decade. Prior to the installation of metal detectors and armed guards, there were weekly shootings and knifings. After installing metal detectors at all entrances and roaming armed guards, there were NO more shootings and only the occasional shankings (with non-metal objects). Continual violence was dramatically reduced.
I saw the same result first-hand at my high school in Riverside, also gang-infested.
You can say, "Ohhh... anecdotal," but I'll respond: "First hand observations," which are FAR better than vague theory about how background checks are going to accomplish ANYTHING, when we already know that these recent incidents would not have been affected by any such legislation.
EDIT: Furthermore, perhaps YOU can explain why national figures (and their families) ARE protected by ARMED guards rather than just LEGISLATING specific laws like, "Thou shalt not try to shoot the President." Oh, wait, there already ARE such laws, just like there already ARE such laws as, "Thou shalt not try to shoot a bunch of helpless kids."
Soooooo, because the nut jobs and sick puppies don't abide by the LAWS, people that CARE to protect themselves and their families GO ARMED!
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 - 08:45pm PT
|
WTF. Jesus Christ, get a grip. This is getting really f*#king stupid. Is this the wild west? Even in the wild west there were gun laws.
I'm not the one calling hundreds of deaths out of 1/3 of a billion people a "continual slaughter." YOU get a grip.
So, TELL me, EXACTLY how would universal background checks have kept any of these school shootings from happening?
I'm supposedly soooooo bad because I have no interest in the passage of additional non-causally-connect legislation. So, perhaps YOU can be so GOOD as to tell me the causal connections!
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 - 08:51pm PT
|
Tax the hell out of ammo and guns...Make it so that only the wealthy can own guns..this might help keep weapons out of the hands of lower class white trash that think guns are the solution to every situation...Let the whining commence...
|
|
The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 - 08:52pm PT
|
Okay Chief, then tell me how we deal with "Not one of you "others" has yet to present a viable solution for that critical component of this issue." Any ideas?
No... I asked you to propose a viable solution that YOU all seem to have the answers to but have yet to present any as of yet.
So, by all means Winemaker, give it a go.
--> How do you propose acquiring all the millions of illegal weapons that proliferate this nation and most certainly play a major role in the gun violence that you all want an end to asap?
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 - 08:55pm PT
|
Chief, the "answer" is always the same: "We don't have the answers to such questions, but SOMEBODY has GOT to do SOMETHING! At least WE CARE and are TRYING to do SOMETHING, ANYTHING, to end the SLAUGHTER! You gun-nuts are heartless bastards that just don't care to DO SOMETHING."
When you try to pin them down about what the SOMETHING they propose ACTUALLY can do, it quickly turns to crickets, followed by more name-calling.
|
|
Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 - 08:55pm PT
|
Yo Chief Dood,
I asked you to propose a viable solution that YOU all seem to have the answers to but have yet to present any as of yet.
The Australian buy-back worked wonders down under...
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2015 - 08:58pm PT
|
It's not that your soooo bad it's more like your sooooo profoundly wrong. The obsession here with guns that have no other function than to kill other humans sickens me. You pontificating blowhards who have no real experience with such weapons except what you read in comic books should STFU!
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!