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overwatch
climber
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Check out Deuter. Quality rucks for a reasonable price. I got the Act Lite 65+10. Under 4lbs (3lbs. 12 oz.). Bomber and holds all my sh#t perfectly. I mostly rope solo so all the gear gets humped by me and everything fits inside with a custom external built in pouch for the helmet. Compresses down well for smaller loads. I love the built in waist-belt pouches. Very comfy carry, 170$ with a deal at AZ Hiking Shack. There is still a lot of room left in the load out in the picture.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Wow, 35L is tiny!
Well, yeah.
My "crag pack" for anything other than sport climbing has always been 50L. That allows me to get the following in there:
A rope, rack, helmet, two pairs shoes, liter of water, guidebook, puffy jacket, beanie, lunch. And it's basically full at that point. Couldn't fathom trying to get all that in a 35L.
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Mei
Trad climber
Was one
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 7, 2015 - 08:17am PT
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I know, I know... Elcapinyoazz, you were right from the beginning. :)
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overwatch
climber
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Why don't you answer the question then?
That is my day pack unless I am climbing with a partner then I use a Mountain Hardware Agamma, wearing my harness and the rope in a mountaineers.
Ropes you really can't go wrong with in my opinion
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Sep 10, 2015 - 07:46am PT
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Buying blind? Go check out a store. Fill a 50 liter with some kit, a rope and shoes ~ less than half full, 50 liter can be to big, to heavy if full, unless you are a beast.(6ft tall at least)!
If your plans call for a week out then you may need a 50 liter but for going three days or overnight a 40+ liter (3000 cu.inch volume) seems to be the choice size.
I too am disappointed with my Black Diamond, purchase, a Stone 45 liter, that is not as well built as I had hoped.
Where's the Beef?
The size is right, it can handle overflow, has a solid protective back, and carries well - if fit right.
But
the Actual construction of the pack seems weak and is poorly designed. Ignoring well know 'do not do' in pack construction.
if you want them to last, no seams at wear points; like a straight across the bottom of the back of the pack, where the body and pack rub.
Another sad change that screams 'Planned Obsolescence' is the lack of a bright interior second layer. The pack is not double lined...
I will use stuff sacs, to protect the pack from my gear. . . . Adding stuff sacks sux.
I wish I had taken my own advice, and gone to a store. The pictures showed a bright blue storm skirt that I thought fully lined the pack, I got this idea because I am replacing a 30year old Son Of Crag, that is fully lined, in the same blue color.
A black pack interior is a bad thing. It makes alpine starts that much more foggy in reduced Light, visibility into the bag is nil.. I will attach a Bike light inside the pack! Ho wait, I can't, no interior loops - at all.
The all black exterior can turn a simple sun setting into an epic be-nighting; if you can't see your pack.in the dark.
I need to find some full strength reflective webbing for now I have added fuschia bright green 9/16 tape/webbing to the small diameter grab loop on the pack - not ideal in keeping things stream lined - I do a lot of bushwalking
Edit:-this, three days after. . .
Rainbow & fuschia pink. Tied around the top of the pack.
The 1inch tubular rainbow webbing is girth hitched in one spot. In the back, to the Questionable shoe string grab loop (1of 2, these are an insult! and will be separated by one sturdy tug on the 1st adventure!!) then the ends of the tubular webbing is pre tied with a very loose 'open' water knot. The pink 9/16th is then threaded through the tube tracing the knot. The result is a full loop that runs around the shoulder harness, spreading the load. The in the field use ,was ~ once established, hanging, the front skinny criminally negligent
Loop is clipped to from a three point hang point.
After one use in my opinion,There is no full strength anything in the Stone 45 ! It carries well for new, let's here from someone who's used it to hit up some real climbing areas. Lone peak in Utha ? Anyone in Vegas use the BD Stone45? how about Chochise Strong Hold in Arizona? END,EDIT
I also worry that the zipper is not covered by a storm flap, exposing it to wear and leaking.
Again, adding stuff sacs will help,but rain /snow and freezing temps?
I do not like the way things frost up in Haul bags, in the winter, caused by the lack of breath-ability of some 'Durathane' type coated packs.
The trade off of the full waterproof, dunk ability, should not be for a soon to be leaky pack.
The way it looks, even with Just careful use, And never using the zipper !, the unprotected zipper is bound to leak over time.
The best wearing most versatile pack that I found at any price was a old and great design, a bit small but the pedigree speaks for it self:
Wild Things,
(now having switched to military spec), they make two types of packs the Andinist (?)is the same as it ever was plus an added front pocket. The pack uses a full side zipper to reduce the pack volume. I used a Wild Things Andinist for many years and loved it.
In the realm of affordable; I found that prices were dropping.
Then I got obsessed,
Cilogear? Lots of praise for their work sac?
I could not find a FROG pack or a LIPKe I did find custom pack makers in Texas, Oregon, Montana N C & other places. Many companies have gone mostly Medical/search and rescue. & military/ Law enforcement ..,. . .
(Lipke, went into supplying search and rescue and then??)
Mountain Equipment Company, MEC, the Canadian 'rei'
From da USA?
Cold Cold World ~ , (with a stiffer 2 stay back board)
MISTY MOUNTAIN THREAD WORKS ~
Mystery Ranch !~ (need to make a 35+10 version of the 'x20', see link)
There are many other pack makers who's packs I've loved. I just named a few.
I also looked at "Vintage" stuff some used and new off brand or great deals. Also strange off brand " copy cat, knock off style packs.
Edit:
just a lot of packs out there!
I saw a used Wild Things Ice sac, it seemed small?
?? Roam Ready ~
will build to suit !$$$!
this is a small Texas company I know nothing about,
The materials they use are the best, weight to strength,
Three packs; the High Point, the Devon and the Tatical Summit???
These companies all make three great looking choices of packs.
The largest seem big at +50 liters. That is a needed size if winter alpine is in the cards. When that is the case (added 'comforts' & weight) I kind of like a beefier frame pack, than the simple frame sheet and padding of a crag hauler.
The thing I liked most, about the three, of the many companies out there, these were the most approachable companies turning out top of the line packs .
( I think, also they may do some custom work & carry life time warranties)
Patagucci and Black Diamond only go a year ! .? With the warranties.
The big name brands? What is big?
Every decade has its stars but every so often a small brand that may not last, is worth a try. With that in mind, - for the fun in replacing gear every few years (it is fun to get fresh new toys)
I looked at all the ads for packs and googled things.
I looked into some things being offered on a site called ~ esty ~ it is a kind of E-Commerce site, for, artists, crafters, so I think I got there by looking for things, using the key words "Custom bag" but also found a used Dolt bag, for 12 bucks shipped, I need it as a stuff sac to protect the cheesy big named pack I went with, given the $100, it seemed like a lot of pack & my last pack from Black Diamond, (The bigger than the black), grey Son Of Crag, is till going strong after thirty years. I don't think this thing , the Stone 45 "Rope Bag", I bought will make that sort of mark.
Still. . . I guess the Black Diamond Stone 45 liter (in small) Is a serviceable pack. It is not a work horse, and will be trashed by daily use.
For Weekend Warrior status, with some care, and not using it for a chair it should do, it remains to be seen though.
"One pack to rule them all?"
I can't believe it is so hard to find a bomb-proof simple pack.at a reasonable price.
$300.00? ? Or more?Thats just too much!
I m going to see what the return policy will do for me. If I get to do it over, I will broaden my search. The Germans and Brits, or the Scott's must make 'forever' packs.
Again I wish I had taken my own advice,
Edit return on 9/10/15:
Mystery Ranch Backpacks | Built For The Mission
http://www.mysteryranch.com/
A product driven company from the beginning, Mystery Ranch designs packs for the job that needs to get done, for the people committed to doing it, with the best ...
You visited this page on 9/9/15.
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There are so many pack makers the main driving force behind the Mystery ranch is The Dana of The old Dana designs: think original 'Bomb'pack.
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Pete_N
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Sep 12, 2015 - 03:54pm PT
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Hi Mei...I recently replaced my tattered old Wild Country pack with a new one after lots of research. My criteria were very similar to yours though I eventually concluded that I didn't actually want a pack large enough to stow all of that (rope, rack, shoes, harness, food, extra clothes, helmet, water, etc). More important to me was a sturdy pack that'd hold stuff I couldn't or really didn't want to wear on an approach, with no external stuff to hang on bushes and in chimneys. Also, I didn't want to pay an arm and a leg for something that really was basically a bag with some shoulder straps. Load carrying comfort was semi-important, but my bigger concern was not have dangly bits to get me in trouble. (I have enough of those as is.) I bought a Cold Cold World Ozone...it's ca $105, 38 liters, and beautifully made. It doesn't "hold it all", but it's slightly larger than my old WC and has certainly been more than adequate. In any case, I'm pleased and suggest that it's worth a look.
Let us know what you settle on...
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Sep 13, 2015 - 09:32am PT
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Cilogear? Lots of praise for their work sac?
Cilo is versatile and carries well. I like their shoulder strap design. Many of the details are nice. The packs are not too heavy (though they are not fantastically light, either -- those 13 or more steel D-rings add up).
But. If you don't like too many unnecessary critical seams, poor stitching, narrow seam margins, and untaped seams at critical stress points… well, you should see my Worksack. It's got all of those problems. Unlike the mfr's above, I won't buy a second Cilo pack. Put it next to any of the bags in my post immediately above, and the contrast is pretty painfully unfavorable to the Cilo.
RDB has compared a few packs, and posted about it. His conclusions are same as mine (and he's a vastly more experienced climber than I am). http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2012/04/climbing-packs-part-2.html
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CCT
Trad climber
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Sep 13, 2015 - 11:27am PT
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It depends on what you are doing. I don't like to climb with a large pack, so usually I wear my rope as a backpack, with gear on the harness, and a small camelback-style pack. This is for approaches up to 2 hours.
If I'm spending the night out before an alpine climb, then I wear a big comfy backpack for the hike in, and the small pack for the climb.
The only time you need a pack larger than a camelback for a climb is when you expect to spend the night on the route, like a long traverse, or if you are climbing in winter and need crampons, ice tools, bulky down jackets, etc. For that, I use the smallest pack possible to hold the minimum gear needed to keep me warm and alive. 34L, I think. This is enough to hold my neoair sleeping mat, 1lb sleeping bag, down jacket, jetboil, and dehydrated food. Rope goes on top, and helmet goes outside. Partner carries the rack. Or vice-versa.
My recommendation - get 3 packs. 1) A small, comfortable camelback-style pack for everyday use. 2) A large comfy pack for backpacking en-route to climbing. 3) A medium not-so-comfortable pack that climbs well for multi-day traverses or winter. 4) If you do multi-day winter alpine climbing, you will need yet another, larger pack. Personally, I can't carry that much weight up a climb, so I don't do that style.
Bonus- you can use the large comfy pack (#2) to carry gear when you are toproping.
Happy climbing!
Sample single day:
http://www.rei.com/product/866606/osprey-rev-15-hydration-pack-51-fl-oz
Sample comfy backpack:
http://www.rei.com/product/881000/gregory-baltoro-75-pack
Sample multi-day/winter pack (this is the one I use):
http://www.rei.com/product/887703/gregory-savant-38-pack-2014-closeout
Hint - that thing you think you need? You don't need it. Leave it at home, save weight and space, and enjoy your climbing more.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Sep 13, 2015 - 12:01pm PT
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No specific pack recommendations here, but general reflection on qualities important for a pack.
I have a 25 yr old and a 15 yr old REI midsize overnight backpack, both with holes from dragging across granite and from squirrels grabbing food. I've come to the conclusion that it is easier to synch down a bigger pack than to stuff more things in a small one. And I like having enough fabric and back liner so cams don't dig in my back. And I don't do camelback water pouches anymore- depending on one flimsy water container has proven painful when problems arise.
If I have little enough stuff to fit in a BD Bullet pack on a climb, nowadays I would just skip the pack and stuff my things in the zipper pockets of a vest kept around my waist. But a bigger under-utilized pack for approaches is convenient for tiny loads as well as a few ropes, full rack, and multi-day camping.
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Dtails
climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Sep 13, 2015 - 12:18pm PT
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STAY AWAY FROM THE REI FLASH 22!!
I bought last years (2014) REI Flash 22 pack. It looked to be a good size to use as a lightweight climbing/summit pack, could hold, rope, light rack, puffy, some food, and Camelbak bladder. However in an effort to save weight and make it more comfortable, REI used a mesh type material for the shoulder and waist straps. When they bar tacked the buckles to the mesh it created perforations so that now it was like the tear-off edge on a postage stamp.
The whole shoulder suspension system almost completely tore off the pack after only about 6 months worth of lightweight use. When I took it back to REI the gal behind the counter said "this is not a CLIMBING pack" "It is not meant for climbing gear!!"
WTHF??? So, if I put 10-20lbs of books in there it would be OK?
Also, for anyone that hasn't heard, REI is only warrantying their stuff for 1 year now. They lost me as a customer when that policy kicked in.
I recently switched to the Patagonia Ascentionist 25, (on sale for about $60), pretty bare bones but sturdy and at least I know Patagonia will stand behind it if there is a problem.
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CCT
Trad climber
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Sep 13, 2015 - 01:09pm PT
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Agreed that comfort trumps lightweight in a pack. I can't speak for the REI Flash in particular, but in general, I'd rather carry a few extra ounces than deal with thin straps eating into my shoulders, or the sunscreen bottle poking me in the back. Bonus is that comfortable packs tend to be durable and less expensive too.
I just looked at that Patagonia pack you bought and returned (the Cragsmith 35L). I'm sure it's a fine pack for many applications, but personally I wouldn't like it because it's too streamlined. Easy access food, route photocopies, and that layer I just took off and might put back on in a minute, all go in little pockets or straps on the outside of my camelback-style pack.
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Climberdude
Trad climber
Clovis, CA
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Sep 13, 2015 - 01:20pm PT
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Mei,
It depends on what you will be doing, as others have well noted. Are you talking about a pack to climb with while doing climbing or a crag pack? A crag pack is one you bring to the climbing area with your gear in it, but generally leave it at the bottom.
Any pack, even a very expensive Cilo type, will be shredded in very quick time if used for cragging. When the bottom of a pack without special protection material and design is moved across the rock with a rack inside, the rubbing pack material between the rock and the metal will wear holes in it in no time.
If you mostly will be doing cragging as described above, you will want a pack designed specially for this activity. I just purchased the Black Diamond Creek 50 which is specially designed for this activity. It has burly haul-bag type material over the entire surface, yet is very flexible. It is definitely a step up from the BD Bullet 50 that I used to have. I also bring along a very small pack such as a REI 18L backpack to climb with. Using two packs like this is the way to go, as others have noted. The Creek 50 is also the right size that you can do climbing with it if needed and it will not be torn up when moving through tight quarters.
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Gorgeous George
Trad climber
Los Angeles, California
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Sep 14, 2015 - 01:19pm PT
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The way I see it - you should not have to carry all the gear in one bag, unless you are solo climbing you have a partner, and should divide the gear equally between you (I agree with the unequal split for noobs). Personally, I carry a rope bag for all climbs, sport or trad, that can be brought up the cliff and used as a rope bucket. The rope goes in uncoiled and comes out easy as you belay. The bag I use is so old and thrashed I don't remember what brand it is, but it has no outside pockets or straps, only the shoulder and waist strap.
The other bag is the one you want to carry the gear in, although for the hike in some is transferred to the rope bag to equalize the weight, such as water, climbing shoes, headlamp, and fleece sweater. Then, it is personal preference whether to have other accoutrements, pockets, straps, etc.
Bottom line, unless you are preparing for a bivouac, you don't need a large pack for most day climbing trips. My second pack for climbing is usually an expandable camel back (although I agree with Nut's assessment that depending on the bladder may risk leaks).
Don't forget, always carry a whistle, a knife, and a lighter for emergencies.
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Mei
Trad climber
Was one
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 18, 2015 - 09:53pm PT
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Thanks again all for chiming in. After finding out that the good looking 35L Cragsmith is too small, I've decided to use my backpacking pack (one I used for back country climbing trips) as my day climbing pack -- climberdude, this is the pack I wear from the car to the base of the climb. Always a minimalist, I rarely wear a pack on the all. I got by with a fanny pack for some long multi-pitch climbs, but mostly to provide secure storage and easy access for my camera.
I've retired my former day-climbing pack to a gym pack. With all the crack climbing gear and lead rope, I now seem to require an actual pack when walking into a gym. I did many climbing trips with this pack, but it can only store at maximum a full rack plus a tag line and my personal climbing gear, never both rope and rack. And every time, I do a jigsaw puzzle trying to fit everything in and the pack has no void left once packed. But the effort seems more daunting now that I got older. Sadly, I don't do climbing trips as often as before due to lack of partner(s), so I think I'll just hold off buying a new pack. Now, with my backpacking pack, I can just throw everything down the pack and cinch it down. I just need to be careful not to carry too much extra stuff simply because of the abundant room.
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cleo
Social climber
wherever you go, there you are
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Sep 19, 2015 - 01:46am PT
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For me, the most important thing in a climbing pack is me not hitting my head on the back of it when I look up! Super annoying!
(I'm a short person with a short torso, so most packs *do-not-fit*).
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Sep 19, 2015 - 09:14am PT
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I used to be metric deficient too :-) but come on...
The REI Flash for rope and rack?
My three packs that I recommend:
Mtn Hardwear Direttissima 50- older version. Burly, expandable. Heavy and not the best suspension.
Used for full backcountry climbing days- rope, rack, lots of water, food, extra clothes, etc.
Boreas Lost Coast 35- normal climbing days without kitchen sink. Light, great suspension, simple thoughtful design. They make larger versions. Excellent.
BD Bullet 18?- small pack for long multipitch routes. Shoes, water, shell, smokes. I'd rather not climb with a pack but this one is good and sure beats all that BS hanging on your harness.
The biggest hot buttons for me with a pack are-
-Top loader with two straps on the "brain".
-Relatively simple exterior- I don't need drink hammocks/branch snaggers all over my pack.
-Key clip in interior pocket. Can't believe some packs still don't have.
-Slim/vert profile. I want that shˇt tight to my back not all poopy diaper style.
Number one thing is FIT, no matter intended use.
If your shop can't fit you properly, go somewhere else. And if you're ordering online, it's a roll of the dice, as evidenced on this thread.
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msiddens
Trad climber
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Sep 19, 2015 - 09:52am PT
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Hi Mei! Recent bought a TNF Cinder 55- it's about perfect and I'm impressed. So is Honnold apparently, check it out and hope to share a rope or trail soon
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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Sep 19, 2015 - 01:11pm PT
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Oh man, I need the pack that Cosmic posted up...that's EXACTLY what I need! What are you asking for it?
One consideration you may make is are you pulling sherpa duty? Are you climbing with people who never bring enough water, always forget the small cams, never enough draws, and loves leading wide crack?
Being sherpa means you gotta have a sherpa suitable pack. Although heavier, sherpa size will hold all the gear and make loading and unloading easier and faster. No tetris and smashing required.
I'm no Sherpa, but I often get sherpa duties. Now, my go to Day pack is the one that everyone says is too big and too bulky at 65L (maybe more?). I didn't start using this pack and in fact resisted for years. But somewhere between the almond croissant, the thermos of coffee, the big 4 and 5 camelot, with the big green wagon wheel on top, the big pack got pulled out more and more. That was before the loppers got added in! And because it's built to handle weight, I always have a comfortable carry. Really saves my shoulders and bad back, especially on hour plus approaches.
I don't think I can climb with it though. I'd rather have the bigger pack than having to back off a lead because I didn't bring the big #4.
Bigger is NOT better, but sometimes it's more comfortable ;)
As for ropes...BUY ALL THE ROPES!!!! ;)
Good luck!
Cheers
LS
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