Trad climbers, recommendation on Day pack and rope?

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Mei

Trad climber
Was one
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 31, 2015 - 02:29pm PT
Sorry I'm lumping two unrelated quests together in one post. Time to upgrade, but I have not been following the market and feel a bit out of touch with what's out there. I'm not necessarily looking for the very best choice because they usually comes with a high price tag, but rather, I'm asking you true climbers here, what's the best bang for the buck choice? Say, what would you choose for yourself?

1. Day pack: I looked up on OutdoorGearlab reviews and found that they have a huge gap between day packs (usu. ~20L volume) and backpacking packs (usu. 60+L volume). What about one that can take a climbing rope, a full trad rack, along with other climbing gear and food for the day? Something between 30 and 40L capacity. Anyone has experience with Osprey Stratos 36?

2. Rope: the type of climbing I'm into is multipitch trad with occasional cragging. I used to just get a 60m dual pattern, but I now realize that more and more routes are set up in such way that time can be saved with a 70m rope. I'm not a sponsored climber who can dispose a skinny rope frequently, so I need my rope to last. What's your current day choice of rope (make, model, diameter, and length)? Knowing what other climbers choose can help me evaluate my options.

Thanks for any input!
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Aug 31, 2015 - 03:23pm PT
What about one that can take a climbing rope, a full trad rack, along with other climbing gear and food for the day? Something between 30 and 40L capacity.

My "crag pack" for anything other than sport climbing has always been 50L. That allows me to get the following in there:

A rope, rack, helmet, two pairs shoes, liter of water, guidebook, puffy jacket, beanie, lunch. And it's basically full at that point. For sport climbing I can get by with a 40L. Couldn't fathom trying to get all that in a 35L.

The Trango Crag pack gets great reviews and is dirt cheap, $100. Guidebook and stinky shoe pockets on the outside, built in rope tarp.


I wouldn't trust OGL reviews for anything. Consistently poor.
Mei

Trad climber
Was one
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2015 - 03:46pm PT
All the suggestions have been noted and will be studied. You guys are awesome! And please continue. I like to see more real world user reviews coming...

A rope, rack, helmet, two pairs shoes, liter of water, guidebook, puffy jacket, beanie, lunch. And it's basically full at that point. For sport climbing I can get by with a 40L. Couldn't fathom trying to get all that in a 35L.

A keen observer would point out that this new pack would most likely be carrying two left shoes - downright impossible to climb in, but they spoon well in a pack. Also, no helmet is allowed in or near the pack. Guidebook is unlikely unless authored by Young. Lunch will be two 5-year-old deformed powerbars. Given the differences, a 35L might just work?

Oh, the stinky shoe pockets sound like a wonderful idea, but since you'll need to read the owner's manual to know what they are for, I suspect the pockets will most likely be used to store the two 5-year-old deformed powerbars.

By now, it's probably clear that only the rope question was for myself, right? ;)
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 31, 2015 - 03:49pm PT
I'm not sold on using a 70 meter ropes for multipitch trad routes. They're heavier and you need to bring more gear to protect longer pitches.
Did a route in the Black Canyon a couple of years ago. My partner insisted on bringing his new 70 meter rope. He led a pitch I had done before. He was soon out of sight and at about 65 meters he came to a screeching halt. I waited and wited and waited....finally I heard his "off belay."
When I got to him I saw that he had climbed past a very comfortable ledge (where I had belayed) and up into a chimney where he had fashioned a dubious and uncomfortable belay.
He felt he needed to stretch the pitch because he had a 70 meter rope. It would have been much faster and much more comfortable for him if he had belayed on the ledge. The anchors would have been better and placed much more quickly and he could have flaked out the rope on the ledge.
Yep....he did the same damn thing a few pitches higher.
I use a 70 meter rope for sport climbing, an 80 meter rope for Indian Creek but only a 60 meter rope for multi pitch trad.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Aug 31, 2015 - 04:13pm PT
Not sure if it's still in production, but the Marmot Eiger pack has suited me well for cragging and lightweight backcountry use for the past decade. It's just the right size, and you can strip it down for fast and light endeavors.
looks easy from here

climber
Ben Lomond, CA
Aug 31, 2015 - 04:22pm PT
I used to use a Mammut Infinity 9.5mm 70m (and still do for single pitch stuff), but for multies I've dropped down to 60m (though bumped up to halves, fwiw-Trango Amphibian 8.1mm, love 'em). The Mammut was a fantastic rope straight out of the package, and is still great after 3 years of TR abuse, but the extra 10 meters generally was just extra weight and rope management.

As for a pack I have a 45L High Sierra Tangent that I got at Costco for 50 bucks and have beat the living hell out of without so much as a loose seam to show for it.

Re: a big pack, I assume that means you walk back out past the start of most of the routes, so you can leave it at the bottom? Because if not I imagine it would be easier to sling most stuff and just go with something light like an REI Flash for just food and water.
ruppell

climber
Aug 31, 2015 - 04:26pm PT
I get by just fine with a 35L Osprey Mutant. It's bomber and climbs better than any pack I've ever used. With all straps compressed I hardly notice it's there. It also rides higher than my gear loops on my harness. A big plus unless you like being annoyed as hell all climb long.

For a rope I use a 70M 9.4 Petzl Fuse. I use it for both sport and trad routes. The one I have now is 3 years old and still in amazing shape for how much it's been climbed on. For alpine I use double 8.4 Beal Cobras. Also pretty durable ropes.

As far as Doninis point about 70M ropes goes, I have climbed on a 70 for over ten years. I don't bring any extra gear. I also have been stuck at a shitty belay or two but those where entirely my fault for misjudging the length to the next good belay.
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Aug 31, 2015 - 04:36pm PT
I coil my rope old school around my knees and carry it outside the pack. This allows for a smaller pack. Also, I often climb with Noobs who feel cool carrying the rope and rack for me.


So, go small with the pack: 2-4 ltrs water, first aid, shoes, layers, TP kit, snack.

Carry all else on the outside. Lots of great packs available.


All ropes are good. 2-pattern is fantastic if you can get it. I usually get what is on sale or at charity auctions.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Aug 31, 2015 - 04:44pm PT
I took all the stuff i needed to carry.... and went into Nomads in Josh. They have a great selection of packs and im sure you can find what you need...



Ahhhh the 70m debate.... one is perfect intill its not.

I still like two 50 doubles. Just try and get down from... lets say: The Obelisk with one 70m.


Edit:

Spider.... if you have it all on the outside, how do you keep from becoming stuck in the brush?????
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 31, 2015 - 04:51pm PT
Guy, pay attention, he explained that you would be carrying his rope.
climbingcoastie

Ice climber
Sacramento, CA
Aug 31, 2015 - 05:53pm PT
Short to no approach = REI Flash. Light weight, easy to climb with and the perfect size

Anything else including two nights alpine ice climbing = Cold Cold World Chernobyl. Not the lightest pack out there, but it's burley and will last forever at a reasonable price
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 31, 2015 - 06:53pm PT
For anything under about ten pitches with a short approach I just hydrate like mad ahead of the climb, put a liter bladder and a protein bar in one of these and go.

Spiny Norman

Social climber
Boring, Oregon
Aug 31, 2015 - 08:18pm PT
Day pack: for something tough don't screw around — go here:

http://toegear.com/TECHNICAL%20PACKS.html

or maybe get an Atom Smasher: http://www.fishproducts.com/catalog/haul_bags.html

I sure as hell wish I'd gotten a TOE. Metolius makes something similar but not better. Probably not as good.

For something 16-25L the Jet Pack works perfectly https://www.mtntools.com/cat/mt/packs/mt_jet.htm

Smaller than that and it's a hip pack. For years, had a Jandd. Just got a new Stealth II (~8 L) from TOE. Beeyootiful.

Can't understand the desire to have shoulder straps for anything less than 16L or so. But some people swear by these https://www.mtntools.com/cat/mt/packs/mt_stealth.htm
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Aug 31, 2015 - 09:06pm PT
Here's 2 choices on packs:

Black Diamond Stone 45. I have an older version, lasts forever.

Mountain Hardwear Splitter 40
Mei

Trad climber
Was one
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 1, 2015 - 10:10am PT
Thanks again guys for chiming in.

I'm surprised to see that some people use different packs depending on the approach. Guess if you have the storage space ... For me, it'll be one pack as long as I'm not backpacking. (Yes, my own pack needs an upgrade too.) Most content stays in at all time, and only food, water, and clothing items are emptied and refilled after and before climbing. I'll stay away from the haul bag like packs because I personally like some external pockets and straps for easy access of things as long as they are not excessive. So far, I have not been stuck in a brush yet.

I hear you guys about the ropes. It seems that if I'm only getting one rope for an all arounder, a 60m dual pattern 9+ mil is the way to go. Let me search around for a Labor Day deal. Good to know what brand and model worked for others.

Happy climbing!
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Sep 1, 2015 - 10:33am PT
So far, I have not been stuck in a brush yet.


Go and do a real approach.... something more than JT or the Quarry


Or be like some of my partners, get the smallest pack you can find.... fill it with as much gear as it will hold then tell me "Thats all I can take, you take the Rack and the Rope, OK."


happy climbing
skitch

Gym climber
Bend Or
Sep 1, 2015 - 10:45am PT
If you get one rope it should probably be a 70m, but just be willing to stop at comfy ledges instead of trying to stretch each pitch. My favorite rope is the Sterling Velocity 9.8mm, but another rope that I think may be just is good and a whole lot cheaper is the Roca Ropes Kalymnos for $150: http://www.fixehardware.com/shop/ropes/roca-kalimnos-9.8-rope-70m/

I am currently using this pack from Patagonia: http://www.backcountry.com/patagonia-crag-daddy-backpack-45l-2868cu-in?CMP_SKU=PAT00P2&MER=0406&skid=PAT00P2-CHABL-SM&CMP_ID=PLA_GOc001&mv_pc=r101&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PLA&mr:trackingCode=5A5A6211-ACB3-E411-BDDA-BC305BF82376&mr:referralID=NA&mr:device=c&mr:adType=plaonline&mr:ad=77110705717&mr:keyword&mr:match&mr:filter=151190602837&gclid=CN386qqx1scCFcNgfgodztkFOQ&gclsrc=aw.ds


The nice thing is if you fill the inside up with cams you can strap the rope on the outside, and it's really easy to get stuff in and out of. Probably not the best pack in the world, but I like it, it's relatively comfortable and carries weight well. Not sure how long the zipper will last though. . . but Patagonia will be hearing from me if it goes out soon. I've only had the pack since this spring.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Sep 1, 2015 - 11:27am PT
There are at least a hundred choices at $130.00 or less.
The toughest haul bag materials will last the longest, The best, hybrids, have removable / storable everything,for hauling and have a heavily padded shoulder harness system for a super comfy carry. I have been looking for years to replace three or four packs that I rotate in & out depending on location and season.

The packs I like best ~ the hybrid haul bag style ~ many of the Well known brands have a polyurethane coated or Durathane pack option. But the specialty smaller shops will usually turn out an almost custom product.( Metolious, makes some thing like six versions.
(watch that there is a short three wrung daisy chain on the top outside of the pack)

Also
The Arc'Teryx Alpha FL 45
is stream lined -and I saw it for As little as $150.78 New, @ Trekkinn.com


pasted from the page:

Arcteryx Alpha fl 45 Pack
8 product reviews
Arc'teryx · Nylon
The N400r-AC? nylon 6 ripstop fabric is durable, light and weather-resistant so it can take a beating on your next adventure. A coating on both sides of the fabric and taped ...more »

$141.95

+$8.83 shipping. No tax

Trekkinn.com

(768)
Shop
$238.95 Backcountry.com
$239.00 Arcteryx.com
$238.95 Moosejaw

Compare prices from 5+ stores?
Reviews. , , ,
(the new Trango Crag pack, pictured on the 1st page Is a 'knock off' some might say improved on, of this pack, and now also is only $80 bucks)

The best deal I saw. .? That's hard to say, the September sales are amazing and if zippers are your, thing I saw some great packs under or just over one hundred bucks.

Also look at the Scott's or British sites if you are willing to pay & wait for the shipping.

I'm am very hard on my packs, so I go for heavy two layer or overlapping construction.
Then there is the need to show up with the top of the line, best name brand. . . .
. I don't make the scene often, but when I do, I Make the scene. . .
( leave a 'dos eXs' impression . . . The Most Dangerous Man, . .)
To some, a fancy label is important. 1st impressions . . .blah blah blah . . . ( offshore built, is a boo-hiss )
but
a deal on Pataguchi is a deal on Pataguchi. . .
and Patagonia Cragsmith 35L Pack, BlaCk Diamond, Creek 50, or the rope bag that I went with the Stone 45! Were all on sale..

Ho yes now that I went and read the thread Crankster's already said The stone45 for a top loader w/ a full side Zipper . . .
( I hope they last as long as the first ones that the North Face and WildThings used & that it stands up on its own)
Then if you trust zippers the clam shell offering from Mountain Tools is a great choice.


Also The best buy if you want the best bag made by far~ The Atom Smasher by. FIsH products. Spend the Extra bucks and get the Delux, it adds to the volume and close up tight better. It is the last pack you will ever need for rock climbing, so be warned, if you buy one and loose your grip on it that loss will haunt you you will want Yours back and not a New one , I can't explain that though

Now having said all of that, go look at the thread that I bumped on this very topic from 2009.:"Your ultimate climbing pack?"
Mei

Trad climber
Was one
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2015 - 02:26pm PT
Thanks for the detailed information. I have to say, trekkinn.com confuses me. Sure, $141.95 appears to be a killer deal, however, the only item in the drop down is a 32 liter. I thought by the name, the pack should have a 45L capacity!

Anyway, I just purchased for myself a Patagonia Cragsmith 35L. Good price, and I like it how I can fully open it from the back, and still have the option to throw in some small items last minute at the top. Psyched to put my hands on it.

Still undecided on the rope...
Mei

Trad climber
Was one
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 6, 2015 - 11:35pm PT
Wow, 35L is tiny! It could be a climbing pack for me if I were a pro who only uses a new skinny rope that never has the chance to fatten up and does not need to carry a rack because the draws are already prehung on the one and only route that I am projecting all day. Apparently, I had no clue about volume (my previous pack was a hand me down and had no label). Now, having seen the Cragsmith 35, I think I need at least 50L. Cragsmith 35 will be returned. Thought I should post an update in case others are also searching...
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