Aerobic conditioning for climbing with kettlebells and/or rowing machine?

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Mark Force

Trad climber

Ashland, Oregon

Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 30, 2015 - 08:31pm PT

I have recently sold a practice and have the time and other circumstances to climb much more. Looking forward to mountaineering and want to be fit enough that aerobic capacity isn't the main limitation.

I don't live in Ouray like some people! I do have a mountain that rises 5,000 feet to a 7,500 foot summit. I plan to use that regularly.

Also, plan to use high rep kettlebell training (I did 250 snatches with a 35lb kettlebell today for aerobic interval training). Also, have a rowing machine and it seems to be useful, also. Go on it for 40 minutes at 120 BPM for aerobic base training and increase the work during that time (quicker pace) as my conditioning improves.

Anyone have experience of how these types of training carry over for mountaineering?

Tadman

Mountain climber

Aug 30, 2015 - 08:44pm PT

I know the Mark Twight and his crew at Gym Jones use both. The crew at Mountain Athlete also use both. There is a ton of stuff (pun intended) you can do with both. I am an older athlete and I use both at least 3 times a week. I love the row sprints with kettlebell work during my "rest" phase. Programming is a science. That said, just crush it. Go hard and when you think you are done...Go again. The fitness will be there if you do the work.

Tad

looks easy from here

climber

Ben Lomond, CA

Aug 30, 2015 - 08:55pm PT

Be careful with kettlebells. I screwed up my shoulder a year and a half ago just by doing light kettlebell swings as a warm-up before lifting, and have had chronic pain and mobility problems ever since.

Edit: Referencing the kb swing conversation happening a few posts down, I would just bring the kb to about eye level-proper form (none of the over the head crossfit nonsense)-and it still went poorly for me.

Todd Eastman

climber

Bellingham, WA

Aug 30, 2015 - 09:04pm PT

Have fun and stay outside doing stuff. Save the gym crap until it is raining for days on end and you don't feel like going outside...

Elcapinyoazz

Social climber

Joshua Tree

Aug 30, 2015 - 10:13pm PT

"Full" swings (aka American) aren't the best idea. The Crossfit cultists love them...which should be your first clue. Swings are intended to be a posterior chain hip-hinge exercise, not deltoid or hyperextension of the back exercise.

When you have both hands that close together and raise it above your head as in the American, you're putting your shoulders in a very compromised position. I'd add that you have very limited shoulder mobility in that position and end up over-compensating with the legs and upper back to get the ROM for the American swing. The cultists will usually claim something about "more work"...if you want to do more work, then do more work, don't add mechanically unsound, dangerous ROM to an exercise.

For swings we use the Russian version, single and double handed. You might try supersetting KB goblet squats with swings. I do that semi-regularly and it can be an eye opener when you go heavy. I like to start a cycle with whatever the athlete can handle for 15+15 and add weight weekly. Once I hit half-bodyweight at that rep range, the following week I'll drop to a ~10kg lighter KB and add 50%-100% to the number of reps, then work back up in weight over the course of some weeks, looking to eventually hit 30+30 goblet/swing superset at half bodyweight as a good benchmark.

Bruce Morris

Social climber

Belmont, California

Aug 30, 2015 - 11:15pm PT

Those KBs seem like an excellent way to hurt yourself, especially if you have obsessive-compulsive, perfectionist personality traits.

ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber

ne'er–do–well

Aug 30, 2015 - 11:50pm PT

I did 250 snatches ...

"Yo Jeff, I lost my arm in your Grandma's snatch last night!"

Rock!...oopsie.

Trad climber

the pitch above you

Aug 31, 2015 - 04:48am PT

Concept 2 rower is fantastic but I'm digging their skierg even more right now. It will kick the piss out of you and it's a more climbing related motion. Solid workout.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Aug 31, 2015 - 07:18am PT

Everything helps. It's been my experience that the more closely an exercise is to the intended activity the better it is. The 5,000 vertical hike sounds perfect!

I well remember having clients in the Tetons who would proudly tell me about their marathon running feats. I never saw that translate very well into going uphill with a pack. Running on flat terrain is good exercise but power hiking up that mountain near your house would be MUCH better to get fit for alpine climbing.

steve shea

climber

Aug 31, 2015 - 07:45am PT

Yup. Put on a pack and go speed hiking. Fill it with water bottles and adjust the weight so that you are working but not over doing it. Increase the weight as you get stronger. Dump the weight on top and run down. Do not use poles!

The Crossfit place here is next to a PT place. My buddy who works as a PT says the injuries coming out of XF are manifold and serious. The only XF thing I like is the thruster. A weighted squat to a military press. Speed hike is the best for the mountains.

Gunkie

climber

Aug 31, 2015 - 07:47am PT

Doesn't Floyd Landis have some sort of high altitude sleeping tube that he probably doesn't use anymore.

franky

Trad climber

Black Hills, SD

Aug 31, 2015 - 08:00am PT

Most people do too much high intensity cardio training that is hard to recover from. Steve House's book has some good guidance on this topic.

People seem inclined to emulate the training programs of top level athletes in any given sport to replicate their success. This neglects the fact that the genetic gifts top level athletes have allow them to train so hard. Will and determination don't let one push through injury or chronic fatigue. The body doesn't work that way.

Most people can't handle the training load of a top level athlete without succumbing to injury, especially as age increases.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Aug 31, 2015 - 08:09am PT

The current conventional wisdom is that as you age training should be INTENSE in nature with periods of COMPLETE rest.

Cragar

climber

MSLA - MT

Aug 31, 2015 - 08:36am PT

What the old man says above seems to be conventional wisdom as we age. I'd post a link to Ned Overend's philosophy(which pretty much matches Jim's) but there is a fair bit about strava in the piece I read so I can't post it. ;^)

Elcapinyoazz

Social climber

Joshua Tree

Aug 31, 2015 - 09:20am PT

It's not quite that simple gents.

You need to differentiate between chronological age and "training age". For an older but very experienced athlete with a long history of training, high intensity/low frequency is often appropriate. But give me a 55yo who's been sedentary or not performing any structured training, and I'd put them on a lower intensity, higher frequency, bodypart split program for the first few months at a minimum.

mynameismud

climber

backseat

Aug 31, 2015 - 09:28am PT

do some reading on Anaerobic threshold training

Cragar

climber

MSLA - MT

Aug 31, 2015 - 09:31am PT

You make a hella good point CapInYoAzz!

Wade Icey

Trad climber

www.alohashirtrescue.com

Aug 31, 2015 - 09:33am PT

I would start slowly developing my base fitness by climbing long easy routes with the kettlebells. as my fitness improved I would add harder routes-say five letter grades below my onsite ability-with the rowing machine. be careful of your back though my rowing machine weighs like, 99 lbs.

also, diet is super important, I've had good results following the Caitlin Jenner raw beef carcass diet. So far I've gained two hat sizes!!!111666