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The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Aug 30, 2015 - 09:21pm PT
Well, you all are now resorting to your typical behavior of not refuting anything with facts rather throwing out personal insults in order substantiate your ideology. Thanks for that Gary Schenk, T Eastman and now Mark Force.

Amazing how so many of you stand by the BS that you call Democratic Leadership. When in fact, most of this supposed "Oppression" you all scream about of late, has not changed what so ever in the past 24 years. 17 of those years under the leadership of a DEM president and the last six or so of those years under the local leadership the the same. Troy Gowdy is spot on his assessment in more ways than one... "I'm just surprised at how many people bought it."

So much for all that BS about Hope and Change.

After years of declining violent crime, several major American cities experienced a dramatic surge in homicides during the first half of this year.

Milwaukee, which last year had one of its lowest annual homicide totals in city history, recorded 84 murders so far this year, more than double the 41 it tallied at the same point last year.

Milwaukee Police Chief Edward Flynn said the mounting homicide toll in his city of 600,000 is driven by Wisconsin's "absurdly weak" gun laws – carrying a concealed weapon without a state-issued concealed carry is a misdemeanor in the Badger State – as well a subculture within the city that affirms the use of deadly violence to achieve status and growing distrust of police in some parts of the city.

Milwaukee is not alone.

The number of murders in 2015 jumped by 33% or more in Baltimore, New Orleans and St. Louis. Meanwhile, in Chicago, the nation's third-largest city, the homicide toll climbed 19% and the number of shooting incidents increased by 21% during the first half of the year.

In all the cities, the increased violence is disproportionately impacting poor and predominantly African-American and Latino neighborhoods. In parts of Milwaukee, the sound of gunfire is so commonplace that about 80% of gunshots detected by ShotSpotter sensors aren't even called into police by residents, Flynn said.

"We've got folks out there living in neighborhoods, where . . . it's just part of the background noise," Flynn told USA TODAY. "That's what we're up against."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/07/09/us-cities-homicide-surge-2015/29879091/

The Mayor of Baltimore is Stephanie-Rawlings Blake (D), the Mayor of Chicago is Rahm Emanuel (D), the Mayor of Houston is Annise Parker (D), the Mayor of Milwaukee is Tom Barrett (D), the Mayor of New Orleans is Mitch Landrieu (D), the Mayor of New York City is Bill de Blasio (D), the Mayor of Philadelphia is Michael Nutter (D), and the Mayor of St. Louis is Francis G. Slay (D).


Rise above your silly posturing and realize that each of these situations is terrible and complicated.

Apparently far too complicated for the current local DEM leadership that in most cases grew up in those combat zone "Hood" neighborhoods to do anything about. Right Eastman.

Wasn't too complicated for Bill Clinton when he mandated the Tough on Crime Policy some 21 years ago that most assuredly has put more YOUNG BLACKS in prison than at any time prior to his actions. I can post those stats if you wish me to Eastman.

Do you know about the issues with the police union and the virtual cessation of policing following the Freddie Gray fallout?

Dah... why in the fk do you think they ever did such a thing, Eastman? Why?

You got your Mayor telling you to stand down (basically letting you know she does not have your back if you in fact do your job and try to maintain law and order per the oath you swore to) when the city is falling apart, burning etc. WTF would you do. Return the next day business as usual? Apparently so.

Go figure.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Aug 30, 2015 - 09:43pm PT
Chief, Your continual baiting, deflection, "yeah, buts..", ad hominem attacks, loaded questions that deflect from your lack of making any sound argument; your lack of providing a clear concept of what you would do about what you perceive the actual problem to be all make your thread a non-starter other than to get people riled. Bravo Zulu, indeed. It really is all about baiting and bitching. Right?

I made my case about the issue of cultural causes that have nothing to do with race and the lack of difference between white gang violoence and black gang violence. They should be treated exactly the same and taking to the streets isn't really responsible action at this point. Let the law do their work and either come up with some actually useful ideas or just stop - the more you post, the dumber and more incoherent it sounds.

The thread deserves nuking.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Aug 30, 2015 - 09:47pm PT
Allow me Mark to repost the premise of this thread before you and others started your typical BS.

Not the point Jeff and precisely why I posted it. It's the hypocrisy and political bs agenda that prevails in this nation. They are ALL just a equal in being fked up. Not one is worse than the other as so many political groups these days are claiming that they are in order to perpetuate their agendas.

The "guns" issue only gets brought up when an event occurs that a legally acquired and registered weapon is utilized. But never when this type incident happens, a totally illegally acquired and used gun. Never. Which is far more than the other. Far more.

Again the total political hypocrisy of it all.

Edit: This particular event strikes home. It was a close Shipmates Brother that was executed.

Deputy Darren H. Goforth, 47, was in uniform at a Chevron gas station when the killer approached him from behind and shot him multiple times, the Harris County Sheriff’s Office said. He then stood over the deputy and shot him several more times, witnesses told police.

"The deputy fell to ground… the suspect came over and shot the deputy again multiple times as he lay on the ground,” Gilliland said. The deputy was pronounced dead at the scene when EMS arrived.



And MARK FORCE, you have yet to answer my very simple and basic question...

Have you ever worked for or with any Inner City At Risk Youth Anti Gang Program/s?

I made my case about the issue of cultural causes that have nothing to do with race and the lack of difference between white gang violoence and black gang violence. They should be treated exactly the same and taking to the streets isn't really responsible action at this point. Let the law do their work and either come up with some actually useful ideas or just stop - the more you post, the dumber and more incoherent it sounds.

Apparently you speak from first hand experience in dealing with such gang issues.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Aug 30, 2015 - 09:49pm PT
I answered that upthread.

I have worked locally mentoring at risk youth. I haven't worked with inner city anti-gang programs.

By the way that question was a deflection and logical fallacy - tu quoque via a loaded question. You deflected and then attempted to undermine my credibilty by asking me a question that was not directly related to the conversation. Shame on you.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Aug 30, 2015 - 09:54pm PT
Really, I just scanned all your posts on this thread and can not seem to find it.

Please refresh your answer or cite the post.

Yes or No.

Thanks.

EDIT: Please also show where I "attacked" anyone on this thread. Thanks.

But, I sure can start posting the obvious "attacks" that have come my way. But them are all good, right Mark Force.

And no it was not a deflection Mark Force. The question regarding the Anti Gang Programs.

Just want to see if you in fact have personally experienced the "education" processes that are out their by the actual community leadership that are on the front lines. Or, you are pulling the stuff you are posting regarding gangs outta your ideological bucket of dead worms.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Aug 30, 2015 - 09:59pm PT
Everyone, even you, should be held to the same standards, Chief!

Crappy arguments are crappy arguments regardless of who makes them. For crappy arguments, I have to give you the win, Chief, though that may be due tothe sheer volume more than anything else!

And, I never talked about any of those programs upthread. You might still be confusing me with someone else here.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Aug 30, 2015 - 10:03pm PT
- You just told me you answered my question whether or not you did. WTF?


 And I expect to be and have done so, more times than you could ever imagine Mark Force.

So what does that have to do with the fact that you have not worked with any young at risk youths and did your best to understand what really goes on in the Hood, Bario, etc etc.

Had you done so Mark Force, volunteered with an Inner City ARY Anti Gang Program, and it's never too late btw, you may just realize that much of the BS you and the others keep proliferating here regarding oppression and it all being complicated etc, is just that.

Here is another little insight from one of those "oppressed" individuals that sees things and tells us the way they truly are...

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Aug 30, 2015 - 10:14pm PT
Chief, it is the post above. Where it says,

"I
have
worked
locally
mentoring
at
risk
youth.
I
haven't
worked
with
inner
city
anti-gang
programs."

Upthread I never mentioned these programs or made any arguments for or against them. You are thinking of someone else.

I also never used the word oppression or anything like it; I made no excuses for anyones' behavior, and made no distinction about the responsibility anyone has for their actions based on their circumstances or the color of their skin. WTF is your point?

This thread serves no useful purpose. It was begun by you to grandstand rather than have a conversation and come up with useful ideas or actions. Good natured ball busting, taking to task, sh#t talking, tall tales, and bragging (with tongue in cheek) are all fun and add to the forum. That is not what is happening here.

Your thread could be the definition of a thread that deserves to be nuked. I'm out.
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Aug 30, 2015 - 10:18pm PT
The latest spin cycle brought to you by...

none other than Mr. Fireplug himself!


Feed the fire.

He really does need it.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Aug 30, 2015 - 10:22pm PT
Well, Mark, I highly recommend you make an effort to do so. After which you can return to this or any other type discussion with a more realistic point of view.

I guarantee you Mark Force, it, your pov, will NOT be the same as it has been here on this thread or any other in regards to this issue.

Specifically the gang culture and the ensuing violence that prevails throughout this country and pretty much is the basis of this thread and the recent execution of the Sheriff down in Houston.

Your thread could be the definition of a thread that deserves to be nuked

Of course it does cus it does not align with the prevailing opinion here on ST which I and some very few others here are a minority of. Had this been another LEO on Black killing, it would flourish just as Sheriff Clarke speaks of in the last video I posted for the exact same reason he states.

I also never used the word oppression or anything like it

Where did I specifically state that you Mark Force, ever did. Where.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 30, 2015 - 11:24pm PT
Pretty whacked out, Chief.

What's the difference?

In this case, the black man was NOT an agent of the Govt, claiming that it was a righteous shoot. The local gov't agencies, the OFFICIAL elected and appointed officials, and not coming out and singing that the shoot was justified and desirable, and what any other black man would and should have committed.

In the cases with rioting, all those things were true in favor of the white officer.

it is NOT an equal and equivalent situation.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Aug 30, 2015 - 11:38pm PT
In the cases with rioting, all those things were true in favor of the white officer.

Of course the local authorities/justice system etc that exonerated those "white" officers in those "shoots" were all bought and paid for by the local Police Unions, the officer themselves etc. Right Ken M.

And may I add, the issue that fired off the rioting that ensued in Baltimore is still in the local justice system and has the paint of local political indignation all over it. Oh and let's not forget the "lynch mob" mentality of the looters and rioters. All justified behavior of course.

it is NOT an equal and equivalent situation.

It sure isn't. It is far worse. As were the other recent cold blooded methodical "executions" of the LEO's and the incident in NYC. But then fk those two young NYPD lads. That is what they signed up for, right Ken M. To get ambushed and shot repeatedly in the head with a totally illegally acquired AK for absolutely no reason other than being a "Pig"....

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 31, 2015 - 07:00am PT
There is a great crag near Moab called "Stupid White Men." I'll probably be reminded of this thread every time I go there.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Aug 31, 2015 - 07:19am PT
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado

Aug 31, 2015 - 07:00am PT
There is a great crag near Moab called "Stupid White Men." I'll probably be reminded of this thread every time I go there.

I am glad to see you come around over night Jim. But don't be so hard on your fellow STers. They look up to you for truth and wisdom. Being a former member of an elite and badass "Sniper/Killer Team" group that you still assist in training from time to time and all.

EDIT: Back to my post up thread regarding one of those alma mater of yours Jim. The one Snipe Dude we flew around "the day after" on Oct 4th, that badass could put a .50 cal round from his M82A1 on "Skinny" target from 2k' AGL and moving around 70 kts. He was good and very hungry for blood, as we all were, after the preceding days horrific events in which his crew lost two Brothers. I distinctly remember discussions back at the airport the ensuing days. Many, including some of your Brothers, felt as if the POTUS had literally "thrown us all under the bus". Even Garrison mumbled words in such amongst us all.

And I still do not get this "Dual" personality thing of yours that you have going on. Puzzling to say the least, Jim.

Smiling while getting an award from a group of paid "Confirmed" gov't sponsored killers with a long honorable history of doing so.


EDIT EDIT...

Do those "Bad to the Bone" dudes know how you really feel about things, Jim?
peladob

Mountain climber
Mason City, Iowa
Aug 31, 2015 - 07:31am PT
Is that up Negro Bill Canyon?
franky

Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
Aug 31, 2015 - 07:37am PT
Arguing with The Chief is so 2008.
couchmaster

climber
Aug 31, 2015 - 09:07am PT

^^^ Why we need a "like" button. :-) Franky knows, but so many others, much like dogs barking at other dogs through the fence, want to demonstrate their lack of intellectual superiority.

George Carlin quote -
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Mark Twain quote
""It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Aug 31, 2015 - 09:16am PT
Thanks Burch... it seriously instills fuel for the "Fire" that needs to buuuuuuuuuuuurn!


Edit: BTW, did you ever get up and do the route, GP Spire?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Aug 31, 2015 - 09:24am PT
There's no dual personality thing with Donini. We're not required to love war, or republicans, or want every assault rifle on the market or anything else after serving our country.

We can still be proud of our service, and stay in close contact with our comrades. I taught an awful lot of survival to Fed agents and police aircrews after leaving the military. I want the best for all those guys trying to do their jobs.

Some cops are still power mad pygmies who abuse power and the citizenry. Please note I said some, even a "few" if you like that word better.

I have ex-cops in my family, and they are good, solid men, who sometimes had to do dangerous things. It's not an all or nothing conversation. There's nothing wrong with seeing both sides of an issue, which some people seem incapable of doing.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Aug 31, 2015 - 09:35am PT
Well, that makes sense Survival. Thanks. I was just curious cus all the "Operators" I worked with and am still in contact, including the Brother of this executed Sheriff, well, I know they wouldn't be at all liking what they would read here.

Oh, and that would not be the posts from me.
Messages 161 - 180 of total 279 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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