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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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May 10, 2016 - 09:05pm PT
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tuned in to listen instead of parroting oddball conspiracy theories, the choice would be clear.
Ah, right... a barely subtle way of saying: "Anybody who doesn't see things as I do is an idiot. Anybody barely rational would see things as I do."
No surprise that the nation is deeply (and about evenly) split.
Okay, so here's an issue: By your lights, let's all vote for yet more unfunded (oh, wait: funded by the middle-class) freebies, such as Clinton's sweet new idea: "virtually free child-care for all," so as to, you know, encourage (and "we" all pay for) the having of yet more kids that the "parents" can't afford to raise. Yeah, let's couple that with a $15 per hour minimum wage, so that the child care is even more expensive than it now is. Hey, we can all (well, the tiny subset of us that are left) "chip in" to make it work. Or just go more deeply into debt. Whatever. Doesn't matter. Goooo freebies!
Yup, I agree with you, I guess: The choice is clear to rational people. About half this nation irrationally thinks that being $19+ trillion in debt is the incentive for yet more "free" give-aways rather than just stopping until we are substantively paying down existing debt.
But, the left always tries to win elections with promising more give-aways. And Clinton has just told us what "Clintoncare" is going to look like.
So, yeah, let's vote on the issues, with about half of this nation saying "no" to Clintoncare. I predict that if it's Clinton vs. Trump, she'll take the electoral vote and lose the popular vote, thereby winning the WH.
She's not going to take the needed money from the big-monied interests that have supported her entire career. So, middle-class: Bend over and prepare to be sand-packed yet again.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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May 10, 2016 - 09:07pm PT
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Yet not a single madbolter1 email post in 2008-10 - where was all the hyperbole and outrage then?
1) I was pretty new to this whole forum approach to "discussion."
2) I was pretty involved in "discussions" about a particular climb and was not frequenting the politard threads in those days.
I'm right with you regarding past outrages! My question is: Why would we knowingly do it to ourselves again, when this time we know the story in advance?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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May 10, 2016 - 09:11pm PT
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Clinton's email escapades utterly pale in comparison.
About that, we entirely disagree.
And, as we have seen and will continue to see, the "email thing" not going away; it's just becoming more pressing. Meanwhile, the number of people is growing that are finally tumbling to just how egregious her corruption is.
Again, why would we do it to ourselves when we know in advance this time?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 10, 2016 - 10:11pm PT
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He's an employer who cares about his employees.
The ones he imported or the citizens he displaced? Dude, you are delusional.
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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May 10, 2016 - 11:04pm PT
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Madbolter 1
I am not really a fan of Hillary myself. Problem she is a hawk, reason for leaving the office since disagreed how the president screwed up things when she wanted more intervention. Even pres said his biggest mistake was Libya. But you can’t really blame him since we did the same when we helped out getting the Russians out then coming back home leaving Afghanistan in shambles. A book and movie that was pretty close on what went wrong and should have been done. We did it again in Iraq, left it and figured the people and an election would help, of course then we made sure that the right person should run the country our way not listening to the people or group that should have been put in. Meese screwed that up he was on the committee what went wrong. Then Libya comes around at first it was not our problem, NATO needed the air power and bombs that we are good at, we agreed or came on board but left leaving 3 different parties fighting for power. We gave weapons small, medium and a little big ones and sure enough one group decided to go over and sided with Al-Qaeda and then we get Benghazi.
So it is going to be interesting whose Military going to be the fighting. A mercenary paid contractor such as Prince or others, Clinton has no problem there. Trump I worry more. There a lot of right wing officers most Lt. Colonels that retired early or told to because disagreements in where or how to fight, thousands or less like we are doing now and advising. We did that in Viet Nam it takes years to train not an overnight job. Prince belongs to a group of people that go back a few years that Jerry Falwell help to create. Noticed that his son indorsed Trump as well as Billy Graham Jr. Both hate Muslims to a tee.
I remember when the Clintons were in office sure we had monies back then and the VA was completely different then of course there were less guys to cure back then and he helped but when Hillary talked about having a health system for all Americans modeled like the VA system. it must have been days before I had to stop laughing. The way it is now it is really bad and not getting any better.
Their Foundation is a concern to me as well.
It will up to the Intelligence agencies that will brief him if for reason he gets in. I believe they give some idea of what it will like up to the election. Will they give it all to him or just a little. He has a big mouth and might reveal something like he always does. ‘I just heard that the……..”
So sure right now status quo or some new and dangerous? Hopefully I will out of town like bye,bye,so long America it was nice knowing fun but matter of time when Americans will be fighting each other, same on ST OP posts here: hate, "you are wrong, I am right". Military will come in like in Thailand to restore order. There is no middle you are either red or blue. In Thailand it is yellow or red. At least the government will pass out toilet paper as well as water and food. Of course if haven’t used it lately you need 10x sheets more. Low bid.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
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May 10, 2016 - 11:05pm PT
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It's nice to have a teacher-of-our-youth pipe in occasionally.
It really swings the compass of understanding on so many levels.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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May 11, 2016 - 05:34am PT
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klimmer posted There were people who did cheer when the towers came down. That is a fact. Not happy about that at all.
There are 7 billion people in the world. The odds that somewhere, someone is having any given reaction to any given event are essentially 100%. Just because there is someone, somewhere who might have been doing something does not give license to make generalizations about entire classes of people.
Klimmer posted It's wrong, but it isn't illegal behavior.
It's true, demagoguery is not illegal.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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May 11, 2016 - 05:35am PT
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So, like everybody else, I see that the only rational thing to do is vote against what I take to be the greater evil. Of course, as just stated, you are all going to do the same thing. May the lessor of the evils win.
If you do not have the conviction to vote for the best candidate then why are you arguing the point with Clinton so hard?
For the record I agree with you regarding Clinton, but if you admit that you will vote for Trump rather than the best candidate regardless of their likelihood of winning, then how can you claim the high ground?
I am absolutely convinced that you recognize the fact that both parties, and Trump for the purposes of this argument, are BOTH systematically increasing the size of government, redistributing wealth and are die-hard enemies to freedom and personal liberty. Including attacking the precious 2nd Amendment. BOTH parties.
And yet you will continue to vote for one of them for what? Because you want to vote for someone that has a chance of winning?
If this is the case, why on earth do you waste your time discussing the point? Just vote for Hillary since she is going to win and then you can say you voted for the winner.
Either you have the conviction to vote for the candidate that most aligns with your thoughts and ideas about how the country should be run, or not.
I might be convinced that you will vote Republican because you want to "lose slowly" but that's a pretty weak argument in my view. But at least its a reason.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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May 11, 2016 - 06:10am PT
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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May 11, 2016 - 06:11am PT
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Then why is the FBI still investigating her?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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May 11, 2016 - 06:13am PT
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Eh. There are really good questions and issues around Clinton's actions but Republicans are so eager to elevate everything to Watergate levels that the legitimacy of the inquiry has been squandered.
Then why is the FBI still investigating her?
Federal government: model of efficiency
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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May 11, 2016 - 07:54am PT
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For the record I agree with you regarding Clinton, but if you admit that you will vote for Trump rather than the best candidate regardless of their likelihood of winning, then how can you claim the high ground?
I don't know where you get the idea that I'm claiming any "higher ground." This election sucks worse than anything I've ever seen, and there is nothing here but a choice between the lessor of the evils as they appear to me at actual voting time.
This has nothing to do with voting for who has the best chance of winning. This has everything to do with voting against the most evil of the two major candidates, and sweepingly the national polls indicate that this is the motivation of most people! It's a sad day when the best the two parties have to offer put the vast majority of us in that position!
I can't say, "I'll vote for trump," because there's no way to know how evil he's going to appear to be by November. At present about the only thing I'm fairly confident about is that Clinton will not get my vote.
And if you think that I'll prioritize voting Republican, then I haven't made myself clear over the last couple of years. I am no Republican and have about zero respect for that party as well!
I do vote the "best candidate" as I see them, which, sadly, in this election amounts to the lessor of the (perceived) evils.
There is no "high ground" to be had this time.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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May 11, 2016 - 08:09am PT
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High Ground might have been the wrong implication.
If a Libertarian candidate is on the ballot come November who lines up with your belief system, would you vote for them?> If not, why?
EDIT: Or any other third party for that matter
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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May 11, 2016 - 08:47am PT
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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May 11, 2016 - 08:50am PT
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How old are you? lol
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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May 11, 2016 - 09:01am PT
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So much time and money wasted on the Circus. Short of lightning striking, the puppet-in-chief is already chosen, with backups. Someone who can read their lines (they learned that from Bush) and will do what they're told to do.
But the circus is fun, let's everyone think they have a 'choice'.
I like popcorn.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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May 11, 2016 - 09:03am PT
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Old enough to know that anyone who unironically uses the term "statist" has a college sophomore's worldview and isn't worth taking seriously.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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May 11, 2016 - 09:24am PT
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I'm fairly confident about is that Clinton will not get my vote.
Progress. There's a chance you might do the right thing.
Fast forward to Sept. 26th, Dayton, Ohio, the first presidential debate. My guess is your confidence level will decrease. We'll see.
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