Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2015 - 01:12pm PT
|
David Duke endorsed him too.
The problem with dog whistling is that sooner or later, the dogs will join you.
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2015 - 01:15pm PT
|
"In 1985, while Iran and Iraq were at war, Iran made a secret request to buy weapons from the United States. McFarlane sought Reagan's approval, in spite of the embargo against selling arms to Iran. McFarlane explained that the sale of arms would not only improve U.S. relations with Iran, but might in turn lead to improved relations with Lebanon, increasing U.S. influence in the troubled Middle East. Reagan was driven by a different obsession. He had become frustrated at his inability to secure the release of the seven American hostages being held by Iranian terrorists in Lebanon. As president, Reagan felt that "he had the duty to bring those Americans home," and he convinced himself that he was not negotiating with terrorists. While shipping arms to Iran violated the embargo, dealing with terrorists violated Reagan's campaign promise never to do so. Reagan had always been admired for his honesty.
Reagan during the Iran-Contra Affair
Corbis
Reagan during the Iran-Contra Affair
The arms-for-hostages proposal divided the administration. Longtime policy adversaries Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger and Secretary of State George Shultz opposed the deal, but Reagan, McFarlane and CIA director William Casey supported it. With the backing of the president, the plan progressed. By the time the sales were discovered, more than 1,500 missiles had been shipped to Iran. Three hostages had been released, only to be replaced with three more, in what Secretary of State George Shultz called "a hostage bazaar."
When the Lebanese newspaper "Al-Shiraa" printed an exposé on the clandestine activities in November 1986, Reagan went on television and vehemently denied that any such operation had occurred. He retracted the statement a week later, insisting that the sale of weapons had not been an arms-for-hostages deal. Despite the fact that Reagan defended the actions by virtue of their good intentions, his honesty was doubted. Polls showed that only 14 percent of Americans believed the president when he said he had not traded arms for hostages.
While probing the question of the arms-for-hostages deal, Attorney General Edwin Meese discovered that only $12 million of the $30 million the Iranians reportedly paid had reached government coffers. Then-unknown Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North of the National Security Council explained the discrepancy: he had been diverting funds from the arms sales to the Contras, with the full knowledge of National Security Adviser Admiral John Poindexter and with the unspoken blessing, he assumed, of President Reagan.
Poindexter resigned, and North was fired, but Iran-Contra was far from over. The press hounded the president: Did he know about these illegal activities, and if not, how could something of this magnitude occur without his knowledge? In an investigation by the Reagan-appointed Tower Commission, it was determined that, as president, Reagan's disengagement from the management of his White House had created conditions which made possible the diversion of funds to the Contras. But there was no evidence linking Reagan to the diversion."
|
|
Norton
Social climber
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2015 - 01:25pm PT
|
I will never understand why Reagan is considered by Republicans such a great President
in addition to him flat out lying about Iran Contra..
the economy went into Recession and the national debt was doubled under his watch
what is it exactly that made him so great in their eyes, because he was a Republican?
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2015 - 01:30pm PT
|
Benghazi!
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2015 - 01:30pm PT
|
I will never understand why Reagan is considered by Republicans such a great President
I'm with you. Same with both Bushes. The damage the latest Bush did (and that lying, human wasteland, Cheney) is inestimable, and he definitely crossed a Rubicon with our freedoms. Now the continuous surveillance state is just par for the course, and nobody (not even the Demoncrats) want to try to get that horse back into the barn!
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2015 - 01:34pm PT
|
Reagan the devil...Reagan ended his 1988 farewell speech with the memorable line, "man is not free unless government is limited." The line is still a rallying cry for the right wing, but the speech came at the end of a long period of government expansion. Under Reagan, the federal workforce increased by about 324,000 to almost 5.3 million people. (The new hires weren't just soldiers to fight the communists, either: uniformed military personnel only accounted for 26 percent of the increase.) In 2012, the federal government employed almost a million fewer people than it did in the last year of Reagan's presidency.
Republicans vote on emotional issues, abortion, race/immigration, religion, they are running out of lies. It is just a matter of time.
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2015 - 01:44pm PT
|
Except that it was incontrovertible that Bill Clinton committed perjury, and was disbarred for doing so. But this thread is about Trump, who many Republicans consider a distraction planted by Hillary (really!).
Republicans and populists don't mix well. The demagogic tendencies of populism usually run afoul of Republican aims, and Trump is no exception. To the extent that he stands for anything except egomaniacal nihlism, it seems to be that our problems can all be solved if we simply deport 11,000,000 human beings, and maybe their American citizen relatives. Oh, and anyone who asks him a hard question is a **&#$$! A pox on him and his movement.
John
|
|
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2015 - 01:45pm PT
|
Not all of them do, Bob....some fall in line with Liberals when it comes to issues such as gay marriage, abortion/women's rights, religion, etc., but vote Republican primarily for (supposed) economic, defense, and integrity reasons.
Though Repubs fail miserably in those departments, that doesn't seem to matter, and they will still hold up St. Reagan as their patron saint, vote GWB into office twice, then remain Republican even after he completely destroys the economy, and his administration lies through their teeth to start a needless war.
Will somebody....preferably a true, articulate Republican...please explain why you continue to vote that way, apparently ignoring all forms of historic reality?
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2015 - 01:58pm PT
|
JL...do you admit it was nothing more than witch hunt?
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2015 - 02:00pm PT
|
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2015 - 02:02pm PT
|
BC lost his law license and paid a hefty fine, so at least one federal judge found something there.
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2015 - 02:08pm PT
|
The wiping of the server and the withholding of evidence are proven fact.
Ought to be pretty easy then to post the proof. Did it appear in a refereed journal?
QED
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2015 - 02:12pm PT
|
JL...do you admit it was nothing more than witch hunt?
It was not, Bob. There was demonstrated illegality that, under applicable law at the time, required the appointment of a special prosecutor. Starr did what he was required to do. The stonewalling from both Hillary and the current administration may well cost more in taxpayer funds and national distraction than anything Starr's investigation cost, but then, how do you measure national distraction?
I propose that we create a unit of national distraction. Consistent with naming of other units of measurement, particularly those associated with physics and electronics (e.g. the volt, hertz, angstrom, etc.) we specify a unit of distraction named a trump. One trump is equal to the amount of news coverage in the mainstream media caused by one outrageous sentence spoken by Donald Trump.
Using that unit of measure, the statements of John Kasich or Jim Webb rate zero (0) trumps. Those of Hillary Clinton or Ted Cruz rate about 0.5 trumps (their opponents will mention them, but their statements don't have the staying power of The Donald's). Those of Joe Biden are worth at least two trumps, because it will take that long to figure out what he meant to say.
John
|
|
mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2015 - 02:18pm PT
|
The Hispanic vote does not carry that much weight.
Jeb Bush-
"I'm married to a mexican, I speak spanish"
Whew! Talk about the upper hand...
Anger Babies!!!
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2015 - 02:38pm PT
|
...who many Republicans consider a distraction planted by Hillary (really!).
If you like conspiracy theories, it's not a bad one. Is Trump a Trojan Horse candidate? He'll continue to tear apart the political landscape for the Republican primaries until he falls out of the race. Then he goes third party, guaranteeing the election to the Democrats.
What does he want in return?
|
|
10b4me
Social climber
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2015 - 02:45pm PT
|
I will never understand why Reagan is considered by Republicans such a great President
I don't understand it either. I am going on sixty two, and Raygun, and bush have been the two worst presidents in my lifetime.
I think the conservatives see ronnie as a god because he "rescued" the hostages in Iran, he kicked ass in Granada, and Panama. Those battles were "close".
REmember what a disaster his secretary of interior was? James Watt was finally forced to resign.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!