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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Jul 28, 2015 - 06:04pm PT
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Never liked them from the first time i saw one at the local shop. Looked like junk to me.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jul 28, 2015 - 06:22pm PT
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Doesn't look like a good design. The way the gate hinge has a huge bump in it and looks like it's begging for a sling to hang up on it.
Still, I can't stand the dental floss draws and slings. They seem to have a mind of their own and get themselves in trouble far more frequently than plain old 9/16" or the wider Spectra/Nylon blends. Doesn't matter what kind of carabiner they are on.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jul 28, 2015 - 06:33pm PT
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I guess I'm an oddball. For sport climbs I like heavy duty, I'll go for the Spirits on the tough Petzl draws. For traditional climbs, where I'll be carrying a rack, draws and runners weight is a factor so I like the DMM keylock biners on the draws they made which are seven inches long. I just looked at one, there's no snag for the draw.
Is Petzl just starting to crank sh*t out without sufficient testing?
I sure am glad I bought a bucket load on Spirits - straight and bent gate, when I did.
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jonnyrig
climber
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Jul 28, 2015 - 07:31pm PT
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You're all ignoring that this kind of failure can occur with any carabiner, regardless of type or manufacturer, when the gate is side-loaded without being closed.
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richard masonn
Big Wall climber
revelstoke BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2015 - 07:44pm PT
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This does NOT happen with other wire gate biners. The ange is prone to catching on the gate. Also the stiff sling which is sewn all the way makes it even more prone to catching on the gate.
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ruppell
climber
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Jul 28, 2015 - 07:49pm PT
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^^^^^^THAT^^^^^^ (pointing to richards post)
It's a sh#t design. Sure any gate can be cross loaded. The chances of it happening with that design are far greater than any other biner I've seen.
Ksolem
You're not the only one bro. Petzl spirits on petzl draws is what I sport climb with. There also what I have on my trad rack. I'll carry that extra 10oz thirty miles to use them in the alpine. I just take less food. lol
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jul 28, 2015 - 07:50pm PT
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hey there say, richard... great post.. whew, glad you are okay... :)
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jonnyrig
climber
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Jul 28, 2015 - 08:07pm PT
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Whatever. I was simply pointing out that none of the biners on today's market are designed to meet any kind of side load on the gate when it's open. That would be impractical, regardless of the design. And pointed out that you should not side load an open gate. Luckily, we rarely see it occur.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2582888/Failure-of-Locking-Carabiner-under-Body-Weight
Apparently the forum has its mind made up that this particular design is a piece of sh#t, so I won't bother you any further on the subject. Maybe the next discussion should be about how some biners are more prone to failure when nose-hooked than others? I'm sure there's an opinion out there on that, too. Everyone has their favorites I guess.
Have a nice evening.
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Crump
Social climber
Lakewood, CO
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Jul 28, 2015 - 08:17pm PT
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Fat, that is the way I always love my clips!
Bonantti Ds, Ovals, "90s" era BD Ovals, ... Fat cause my fat ass was hanging on them.
For the weight savings of little sport biners... you would do just as well skipping your morning muffin... Fat biners rule.
If the four horses of doom are at your door, what do you want your ass hanging from?
Fat! Fat biners rule.
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pell
Trad climber
Sunnyvale
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Jul 28, 2015 - 08:18pm PT
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This is not an Ange failure. This is an operator's failure.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
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Jul 28, 2015 - 08:41pm PT
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My take on this is that the single wire creates constriction under load from the narrow dyneema webbing sewn closely. The double wires of your standard wire-gate naturally channel the impact onto the forged part of the carabiner without cross-loads, and without an obvious point of constriction.
A keeper ends this discussion.
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Jul 28, 2015 - 09:21pm PT
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I agree with the diagnosis of operator error.
That gear was obviously designed to stand out on the rack at REI, not to be whipped on.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Oakland, CA
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Jul 28, 2015 - 09:31pm PT
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Thanks for the heads up. I use these draws and love them. Climbed on spirits for years but after doing some long leads with a harness of these just loved the weightless feel on the belt.
Loading the gate... No good. I wonder if the low mass of the lower biner plus the thin bone let them ride up easier than old style draws.
First failure of this type I've heard of and these draws have been on the market for several years. Pretty low percentage... I know a 100lb woman who broke a spirit in a routine fall so those are no magic bullet.
You guys who can look at a biner and say "bad design" crack me up.
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Bobert
Trad climber
boulder, Colorado
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Jul 28, 2015 - 10:56pm PT
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Thanks for the heads up. That is a pretty serious design flaw. The danger can be reduced by using a quick draw sling that has a larger, softer opening but I think it could still happen. If you have to use these draws maybe flip the biner over so the gate opening is down. Just one more thing to have to think about though. I don't use the Ainge but I've been out in my garage anyway yanking on slings to see if there is some weird way my biners could be accidentally cross loaded. So far no problems. edit: oops, don't do that. The whole thing unclips itself too easily.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jul 28, 2015 - 11:19pm PT
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Old school spirits are my fave quickdraws bar none! Durable, thousands of clicks and incredible quality.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jul 29, 2015 - 10:24am PT
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The design is fine. But if you are just going to clip draws and not take into account that you need to sling pieces and eliminate side pull, then there is a good chance you can cause gate failure on almost any wiregate biner as you contribute to the natural selection process.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Jul 29, 2015 - 11:04am PT
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wow that is some shitty shit!
what kind of testing is being done before they populate climbers with faulty shitty sh#t..
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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Jul 29, 2015 - 11:15am PT
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It's not just the advice that you give(which has some merit),
but how you give it as well.
Blow harder
formerly
known
as.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 29, 2015 - 11:20am PT
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I contacted Petzl and they were able to recreate the failure at 1 1/2 Kn. Shiver ....
I'm with MisterE, the bone needs a keeper.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jul 29, 2015 - 11:22am PT
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If you want to use titons to climb your 5.6, have at it.
I've used titons for motor boating, but never for climbing.
signed,
a future member of the old white guy club ;) (note; not an angry member)
edit; getting a little harder to seperate the wheat from the chaff here.
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