Stupid climbing rules

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tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2015 - 05:13pm PT
I actually generaly abide by most of the rules. One of my Rules that i actually believe in reasonably strongly is no squeeze jobs. That head definatly is a squeeze job. had they gone up annother body length before bashing it in I would never have seen it.
drunkenmaster

Social climber
santa rosa
Jul 27, 2015 - 09:28pm PT
it would be delusional to think chipping a hold to free a route is anything other than cheating. all the aid bla bla - u can have my part of that :)
drunkenmaster

Social climber
santa rosa
Jul 28, 2015 - 01:29am PT
i hope that was a joke ~ in which case :) lol
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2015 - 03:03am PT
Interesting. the chipping incident that came to mind was a long time NH local with gobbs of back country FA's put up a 5 or 6 pitch 5.6 that had a single shutdown move on it. He wanted to keep it at the grade so he chipped a single hold. pretty much got reamed with wire brush over that one. now according to our silly climbing rules had he simply fired in an A0 bolt he would have been a hero. Now according to the same silly rules an aid climber can chip away at will and still be a hero..

take a step back and the rules seem pretty darn silly.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Jul 28, 2015 - 03:40am PT
He wanted to keep it at the grade so he chipped a single hold.

He molested the rock in order to free climb it. Aid climbing with a hammer is murdering the rock at its worst or is an honest admission to ineptness and psychological dysfunction at the least. Even in prison the rules are that you are much better off being a murderer than a molester.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2015 - 03:47am PT
He chipped the rock to keep it a beginner climb. this guy is by no means a beginner. Had he drilled a bolt to keep it a beginner climb no one would have cared. This is definatly a 1st world problem!
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Jul 28, 2015 - 04:56am PT
Joe public could care less about a chipped hold, on a 5.6... lol!

From the road, probably a blasted road cut, joe public can see... chalk!

chalk does far more visual impact to the non-climber, but chalk is invisible to climbers.

but no one talks about chalk, it is just a given that it will be used as much as possible.

But a chipped, comfortized or glued hold.... Heresy!

Climbing is cute little club, and when in the club, you follow the rules.

but those rules are completely arbitrary.

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 28, 2015 - 06:17am PT
Most of the bolting referred to in this thread is for aid climbing. A VAST majority of the aid bolting in America has occured in California.....primarily in Yosemite. Nearly all bolting in the rest of the country has been to protect free climbs.....primarily sport routes.
So the bolt vs. chipped hold argument has to be put into context. Obviously, chipping a bolted sport/free route to change the grade would be compltetely unacceptable to nearly everyone.
conversely
When choosing between bolting or chipping an aid section, the assumption is made that it can't go free. Those assumptions are often found to be wrong. If the section in question was bolted it may eventually be free climbed with the bolts serving for protection. If the section is chipped it is forever changed and, if freed, is not the same climb, the architecture of the rock has been altered. Some might argue that bolting does the same, that the bolt wasn't there in the natural state. True, but concerning free climbing the bolt doesn't AID the climbing except in providing protection that wasn't previously there (read sport climbing). Chipped holds not only permanently mar the rock, they also forever change the nature of the climbing.
I have seen, BY FAR, more chipping in California than anywhere else. I have two theories about that:
1) The aid climbing mentality in Cali brought on by Yosemite Big Walls.
2) The feeling among climbers there during the free climbing explosion beginning in the early 70's that if they couldn't do a move sans chipping nobody ever wood. Hubris led to some notable modifications that we all know.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 28, 2015 - 07:27am PT
Not CA bashing.just pointing out the facts. By the way, I was on the scene during Valley chipping in the 70's.....where were you?
Big wall climbing began in Ca. and the majority of it is in CA. Few people put up short aid routes they are almost exclusively reserved for bigger venues most of which are in Ca.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jul 28, 2015 - 10:11am PT
For all of the years that I have been climbing I have followed ONE RULERule #1 !
rule number one do not mess the place up. make everything better or keep your hands off, leave it alone , Do Not Touch, and redundancy, too, do not mess the place up,leave it alone, don't touch climb past leaving no trace. . .
Qhaving done this ,or as little as need be to be safe, I have been blessed to have places ,pristine, in the midst of urban chaos, all to myself.not that I am pure. I am not.
having transgressed a few times a loose but not dangerous hold here or there, all the way to using a car jack, it depends on the location and use by non-climbers that dictates.

I am not anti any style or means to climb something.

given the restrictions that are ad-heard to by popular
Or majority "agreement".

The, 'breaking' with the herd is problematic.


in a quarry. Or on crumbeling Rock, clean away till, it suites the climber who is putting in the effort.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jul 28, 2015 - 11:38am PT
2) The feeling among climbers there during the free climbing explosion beginning in the early 70's that if they couldn't do a move sans chipping nobody ever would. Hubris led to some notable modifications that we all know.

Jim, I think that attitude has prevailed probably during all of the history of climbing. After all, Collie cut his famous step in Britain long before the Lunch Ledge ascent (the first "properly roped" climb in Yosemite Valley). The criticism of many contemporary bolted routes ultimately rests in a belief that we should leave problems we can't climb using traditional means, (meaning in Yosemite, ground-up, solely human-powered, etc.) to future generations. I remember Robbins making that very argument many decades ago about the Dawn Wall, but it applies with equal force to free climbing.

I guess that's why I like the First Ascent Principle he articulated. It allows freedom for several different styles to coexist.

John
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2015 - 04:00pm PT
Some of My stupid climbing Rules.
#1 Don't f*#k up and die.
#2 have fun, be nice and respectful to people you meet while climbing.
#3 try to stay away from super busy areas on weekends.
#4 Don't let stupid rules get you hurt or killed. The Only time the stupid rules actually count is on an FA or FFA. Take a hang! You can always come back and try again if you stay healthy. See rule #1
#5 Don't mess with other folks routs.
#6 No squeeze jobs.
#7 respect other peoples projects/ red tags. see rule #2.
#8 always use stainless steel and make shure the hole is clean ;)
#9 only climb with people you actually like.
#10 not everything needs to be cleaned and climbed. that bright green moss is there for a reason..........
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Jul 28, 2015 - 08:26pm PT
Tradman- I know you do cragging FA's.
Wondering how you feel about this scenario...
A good route that takes all gear except for the first 25 cruxy feet.
Place a bolt or discreetly exploit(manufacture) a small seam for a gear placement.

FYI- I'm not planning to do this but I've seen it done.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2015 - 03:04am PT
thats an easy one. place the bolt. can't even fanthom going to the work of manufactureing a gear placement that most likly won't be bomber for a critical piece. It's also a classical example of how fcked up climbing rules are. Someone was so set on a rule (in their own mind) that did not allow bolts that they completly broke annother rule to get arround the first rule.
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Jul 29, 2015 - 06:21am PT
The third scenario would be to run it out to the first piece you sackless barney, it's only 5.9! :-)
I will say this- I'm ok with it.
The FAist was not anti bolt, just wanted to keep the line "natural".
Kinda like how a 99% sport route will often get that last 1% bolt, where gear would go, just so it's an "actual" sport route.

FAists...a..."unique" bunch. :-)



Here's a read about hold manufacturing.

http://www.rockandice.com/lates-news/making-the-grade?page=2
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Jul 29, 2015 - 07:53am PT
Interesting stuff. A bunch of people were butthurt by Sean Jones rap bolting a section on the upper slab of Ground Up, in order to avoid ground up bolt ladder, which would than be moved to a spot that he top ropes and finds to be better. But we are all ok with giant poles and steps that are manufactured to the top of half dome.
I think it is important to follow an acceptable ethic for the area, obey the law, but also use common sense. Don't you have to apply to place/replace a single bolt in Yosemite and SEKI? But who follows that law? It is about climbing, pushing yourself to do more with less and not cause a shitshow.

Also, bolt ladders and chipped hold are both lame. Every time I placed a bolt and used it as a point of aid I felt like I am murdering the impossible. At all times I justified it as acceptable because it was a short section which hopefully can be free climbed in the future, but it did not make me feel happy.

Tradman, I follow a similar list of rules you have :)

Not picking on aid climbers j

Haha why not? Aid climbing is basically about chiseling and engineering your way up the terrain above your physical skills. Having the right gear is much more important than skills >:) fairly necessary evil.
steveA

Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
Jul 29, 2015 - 08:38am PT
VitalityM,

"Haha why not? Aid climbing is basically about chiseling and engineering your way up the terrain above your physical skills. Having the right gear is much more important than skills >:) fairly necessary evil."

Are you saying that 99.9% of the climbers that climb the Nose or the Salathe
are lame because they can't do it all free?

You would see virtually nobody on El Cap if all aid were eliminated.

I might add that virtually all the routes I did the 1st ascent of in N.H. over 40 years ago, were mixed aid/free routes, primarily due to the fact that the cracks were full of dirt and lichen. Once all the crap was cleaned off, they were later free climbed.

We all stand on the shoulders of our predecessor's.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Jul 29, 2015 - 11:29am PT

Are you saying that 99.9% of the climbers that climb the Nose or the Salathe
are lame because they can't do it all free?

No, I am making a sarcastic joke highlighting that there is a lot of silly ways to pass a judgement on the style that other climbers choose. Does not only involve climbing. I think, for many, it comes down to ego and the need to put the other people around down in order to validate own actions. :)
We are all going to hell. Enjoy your days on earth. Aid, free, train, drink beer, enjoy solitude, views of faraway summits with amigos, swim in lakes, get laid or watch baseball. Whatever. Follow your passion, use common sense and respect other people as much as possible.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 29, 2015 - 12:02pm PT
Stupid-climbing Rules!!


I know this from experience.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jul 29, 2015 - 12:07pm PT
Stupid-climbing Rules!!


I know this from experience.

LOL! Me, too.

John
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