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couchmaster

climber
Jul 20, 2015 - 09:41pm PT
Don't be so negative Dave. This is how you want the world to know you? ClimbAhr Please! OMG WHATEVAHHHHH!!!!!!!
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jul 20, 2015 - 09:42pm PT
Is this what SuperTopo is about?

Not entirely. It's also about some fairly disgusting personal attacks.

Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not talking about the OP. I pretty much agree with that.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jul 20, 2015 - 09:53pm PT
Locker...Can we get a visual on TGT...? Maybe Wendell carrying a burning cross...?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 20, 2015 - 09:54pm PT
Monday Night Football can't come soon enough.
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Jul 20, 2015 - 09:57pm PT
Personally, I'm with Kos . . . Dude is the real deal!
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 20, 2015 - 10:07pm PT
Want to wager a bet that Wendell views same sex marriage as an attack on his religion?

oh the irony






apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 20, 2015 - 10:09pm PT
TGT is an equal opportunity hater. He's pretty much like the Mikey of politics...he hates everything.

Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Jul 20, 2015 - 10:36pm PT
TGT is an equal opportunity hater.

This may or may not be true, I really don't know him, but In general it all depends on one's perspective. Many of the people who politically disagree with TGT are not "haters" oh no---they are lovers of all humanity. To be a certified "hater" you have to be a Republican ,or a conservative , or just anyone who disagrees with the prevailing political correctness.

The OP accused me twice of giving the Nazi salute in my avatar photo. Then he extended an informal invitation to stop by his house if I'm ever in Temecula.????
Someone is seeing racists under every bed, and has jumped the shark on this issue.
A sure sign of an overwrought ST poster is to run to the moderators to have someone banned.

Kos, take a deep breath, go climbing, or take a short vacation with your family. There may be a window of reasonably cool weather in many local climbing areas. Just don't get hit by lightning out there.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jul 21, 2015 - 03:10am PT
Pretty darn low Kos. TGT is in fact a frothing at the mouth psyco repug but you are a slippery weasel.....
seriously what have you contributed to the site other than politard arguments?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 21, 2015 - 05:59am PT
"TGT is a meanie"

"He must be banned!!!"

Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jul 21, 2015 - 06:12am PT
lookin good Sketch...I see you're still doing god's work...
couchmaster

climber
Jul 21, 2015 - 06:37am PT
Here is the link to the full text to which TGT grabbed a snippit of. Read it and see if you still are upset that a ST member copied and pasted a small part of it here as part of a on topic discourse on a guy named Mohammed who hates you and your way of life, and had to prove it by killing a bunch of Marines...just because.

I think it's over the top that this blogger is painting all Mohammeds with the same brush, but he's trying to make a point, and it's a valid one IMO. For myself, I went to college with LOTS of Muslims. Good guys all - no sh#t, - (The current King of Saudi Arabia was there but the women were someplace else...not driving either of course, and not getting an education either) and what I learned about folks named Mohammed is that although they seem to (and by my account really ARE) invariably be great folks, a few do step WAY over the line (while still being a great guys). They have BELIEF'S DAMMIT ALL, and will quickly and effortlessly wax you and yours, and other Mohammed's for that matter (say Mohammed #1 is Shiia who's deeply held belief involve thoughts that coincides with the PPK's so he comes to PSU and gets an engineering degree and Mohammed #2 is Sunni/Wahhabi (he also comes to PSU and gets an engineering degree, (seen it happen). Crazy stuff. Both think that based on religious thought alone, that the other - for their believes only - should be immediately and summarily executed. Rightfully so I guess. And these are the educated rational ones. Why these f*#kers want blood sport 5 levels over where the worst Motherf*#king psychopath in the US would go is beyond me, as I said, they are all good guys. Regardless, here is the link with the full text TGT copied from (and I don't agree that this covers shitall of the debate but the last paragraph of the link I'm in agreement with).

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2015/07/millions-and-millions-of-mohammeds.html


I suspect you will read the first 2 sentences of the quote Dave, then post here once your knee jerks up. LOL. Certainly for you Kos, the last line is wrong, ie, we don't need a dialog? F*#k dialog -right?

I think that of real interest to all Americanos is that when asked, the majority of Muslims that move here, and there are mega-thousands and these are the "good" folks who are vetted and approved to get in, would prefer to knock out our laws in deference to Sharia law to override our Constitution (it's like 72% in favor - really!)

From my viewpoint, if they feel that way, send their sorry ass's home to help enable Sharia Law for them. I'm not gonna give up my beliefs of the rule of law and the rights of the individuals and change for them and I'd suggest you seriously consider if that is what YOU want as well. You can't have both Sharia Law AND the US Constitution. Ya get to choose only 1.

Do you want Sharia law?
or
Do you want the constitution. Any idiot can see you only get ONE of them.


The "American" I mean our recent now US citizen immigrant Muslims, who often move here to obtain religions freedoms by a margin of 72-28% choose Sharia. They expect you to live under Muslim Sharia law. That is what they prefer and want to obtain. The Constitution sucks ....they say (by a 72-28% margin Dave). #1 offender is bill of rights and the 1st one in particular. Freedom of Speech has to go of course, cause anyone who talks any sh#t at all about Mohammed should be killed. IMMEDIATELY!!!. You do not get freedom of speech with Sharia law. Not at all. We could parse out the rest of the bill of rights, but why bother. God rules - get in line or die is the Sharia law mantra. I do not choose that for me, but people, many named Mohammed, do. And insist on it for you as well. Don't like it? Tough sh#t. Die f*#ker. Good guys otherwise of course.


Here is the full text of the blog that TGT grabbed a small quote of a quote from to make a point. A point dave kos suggests makes TGT a racist for speaking what TGT believes to be the truth, which was this - quoted:
"Sunday, July 19, 2015
Millions and Millions of Mohammeds
Posted by Daniel Greenfield @ the Sultan Knish blog 11 Comments
Before Mohammad Youssduf Adulazeer shot up a military recruiting center in Chattanooga from a car and then sped away, another Mohammed, Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad did much the same thing in 2009.

Both struck military recruiting centers in the South, but the 2009 Mohammed had a message for
Americans that we unfortunately failed to heed.

"This is not the first attack, and won't be the last," Muhammad warned. “I'm just one Muhammad. There are millions of Muhammads out there. And I hope and pray the next one be more deadlier than Muhammad Atta!”

There are millions of Mohammeds out there. It took exactly six years for one of them to finish what his predecessor started. In a world with lots of Mohammeds, we really need to consider whether we want Mohammed becoming the most common name for a boy in America, as it already has in countries like the UK.

The murderous Mohammeds embody the values of the original Mohammed, the founder of their brutal ideology. They kill like him. They kill in his name.

A country with more Mohammeds, is a country with more Muslim terrorism. And if the first Mohammed doesn't kill enough people, the next one will. We have to be lucky every time. The Mohammeds only have to be lucky once for there to be a bloody scene, handfuls of wilted flowers at makeshift memorials on concrete and Americans crying because a Mohammed has struck again.
Americans that unfortunately went unheeded.

The family that names a son Mohammed believes that the warlord who raped and murdered his way across Arabia in a manner that ISIS copied was a model for human behavior. Is it any surprise that the model Mohammed eventually imitates his bloody namesake's crimes?

When a Mohammed rapes young girls in the UK, as quite a few of them have, he is only doing what his prophet did. When a Mohammed opens fire on American soldiers, he is following the teachings of his namesake and prophet. Why blame a Mohammed for acting like Mohammed?

During WW2, we would not have allowed millions of Germans named after the Fuhrer, who admired him and worshiped him, into the country. And if we had done something that stupid, we would have had only ourselves to blame when the darling Adolfs shot and bombed their way across America.

A country with more Mohammeds is a more dangerous place. If a million mothers named their offspring after Charles Manson and raised them to embody Manson Family values, America would be a much scarier place. An America with a million Mohammeds will be even worse.

The mass murdering Mohammeds offer us a simple choice. Do we want to keep allowing people named after the Muslim Charles Manson whose big goals in life were killing non-Muslims and raping their wives and daughters in the name of tolerance or do we want to end this threat of terrorism?

Importing Mohammeds and Adolfs is no way to be tolerant. It feeds the cycle of terror, the bombs, the rapes, the shootings, the whines, the protests and the falling buildings. The first Mohammed kills and another Mohammed pops up to protest that he was only acting out of outrage. A third Mohammed emerges to kill because we arrested the first Mohammed. A fourth Mohammed demands that we free all the Mohammeds or he won't be able to stop the fifth Mohammed from becoming radicalized. Then the sixth Mohammed kills a bunch of people and the seventh Mohammed claims that he has nothing to do with Mohammedanism, which is a peaceful religion, but that we must stop offending Mohammeds or he won't be responsible for what the next thousand Mohammeds do.

Enough.

If we don't want Mohammedan murders, we should stop importing Mohammeds. If we keep importing Mohammeds, then nothing we do, including electing a President Mohammed on a platform of non-stop apologies and free nukes to every terrorist, will stop Mohammedan terrorism.

When there's a hole in a boat, you stop drilling. When a bunch of people named Mohammed keep killing Americans, it's time to tell the next million Mohammeds applying for a visa, "Sorry, no."

America does not need immigrants who view mass murderers as role models. On the list of the least desirable immigrants, Mohammed should rank somewhere below a leprous beggar, a convicted rapist with AIDS and Piers Morgan.

In a country where the Dukes of Hazzard is now a hate crime, we seem bent on importing people who model racist murders, slavery and rape as the highest of all human virtues. And then we're baffled when a Mohammed acts like a Mohammed. The clue is right in the name.

Muslims and the left are united in suppressing any discussion about Mohammed because if we were to recognize that the very model of a major Muslim prophet would be serving a life sentence in solitary confinement if he were alive today, much like many of his Mohammed disciples are serving today, then maybe there's something wrong with all the Mohammeds and with Mohammedanism.

Mohammad Youssduf Adulazeer boasted that his name triggers security alerts. And it should have. Instead he was allowed to work in a nuclear power plant despite his father's donations to Hamas.

Being named after a mass murderer is bad. Being named after a mass murderer by a cult that worships him to the degree that they won't even allow his image to be depicted is a scary sign. If we don't want the seventh century crimes of Mohammed being repeated in our own countries today, then the name Mohammed should trigger security alerts and flight bans.

We need to have a serious dialogue about what to expect from a boy named after a serial killer by a cult that worships that serial killer. And we need to have it before the next Mohammed shoots up the place. "

This is but a small part of it all. I will suggest that you, the reader, can sort this out. I have my own opinions. Due to this, a very low opinion of Dave Kos is the top of the list of things I have parsed. At least
Ali and Mohammed have deeply held irrational beliefs based in mythology and history (both real good guys...non-climbers though)...not sure about Dave.

Regards
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jul 21, 2015 - 06:39am PT
Generally, I agree with Koz' view of TGT, but disagree on the whole banning issue. I'm kind of a First Amendment absolutist and believe that people should have the right to express just how stupid and bigoted they really are.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jul 21, 2015 - 06:57am PT
On average close to one hundred human beings have their lives snuffed out in the name of the prophet every day and millions of women and minorities are abused in his name as well.

It's not like they are twisting a religion either, they are just following his example "fundamentally".

It's great sport here to ridicule the religious of other traditions.

No problem with that for the most outspoken here.

Point out plain fact about a cult that has meted out death and destruction just following the example of their founder and that's reason for a shitstorm?
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Jul 21, 2015 - 07:18am PT
Many Muslims sought shelter in the Al-Aqsa Mosque, the Dome of the Rock, and the Temple Mount area generally. According to the Gesta Francorum, speaking only of the Temple Mount area, "...[our men] were killing and slaying even to the Temple of Solomon, where the slaughter was so great that our men waded in blood up to their ankles..." According to Raymond of Aguilers, also writing solely of the Temple Mount area, " in the Temple and porch of Solomon men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins." Writing about the Temple Mount area alone Fulcher of Chartres, who was not an eyewitness to the Jerusalem siege because he had stayed with Baldwin in Edessa at the time, says: "In this temple 10,000 were killed. Indeed, if you had been there you would have seen our feet coloured to our ankles with the blood of the slain. But what more shall I relate? None of them were left alive; neither women nor children were spared".[16]The eyewitness Gesta Francorum states that some people were spared. Its anonymous author wrote, "When the pagans had been overcome, our men seized great numbers, both men and women, either killing them or keeping them captive, as they wished."[17] Later the same source writes, "[Our leaders] also ordered all the Saracendead to be cast outside because of the great stench, since the whole city was filled with their corpses; and so the living Saracens dragged the dead before the exits of the gates and arranged them in heaps, as if they were houses. No one ever saw or heard of such slaughter of pagan people, for funeral pyres were formed from them like pyramids, and no one knows their number except God alone. But Raymond caused the Emir and the others who were with him to be conducted to Ascalon, whole and unhurt."[18]
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jul 21, 2015 - 07:24am PT
TGT+1

The OP just wants to ban people he doesn't agree with.
WBraun

climber
Jul 21, 2015 - 07:31am PT
Wendell is a disgusting racist

He only sees the fanatics and extremists and based his opinion on that, just the same as all the rest of you anti religious fanatics on this site.

Due to poor fund of knowledge of actual religion these kinds of fanatical dualities arise in this age of hypocrisy and quarrel.

Bottom line ....

You Stupid Americans :-)
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jul 21, 2015 - 07:32am PT
On average close to one hundred human beings have their lives snuffed out in the name of the prophet every day and millions of women and minorities are abused in his name as well.

for someone who lives on a planet that's almost 6000 years old you have a short memory.

More plain fact about a cult that has meted out death and destruction:


The Crusades (Christianity)
The Crusades were a series of conquests undertaken by various Christian groups ranging from 1095 AD to 1453 AD. Though the numbers aren't conclusive there were an estimated 1 to 3 million deaths from these campaigns. While some historians see the Crusades as a defensive action against Islamic conquest, most see them as a papal-led expansion attempt by Western Christendom.

The Inquisition (Christianity)
Everyone has heard of the "Spanish Inquisition" but the Inquisition is actually a group of institutions within the Roman Catholic Church. Tracing back to the 12th-century, the goal of the institutions is to combat secular sectarianism. Aimed at keeping it's own members "faithful" the Catholic Church began holding trials for those with non-mainstream beliefs within the church and, for along period of time, engaging in torture to coerce the individual to conform. In the cases where no repentance was received, the death penalty was used as punishment. All in all there were an estimated 300,000 people put on trial with about 6,000 being executed.
To sum it up, those who didn't follow what the church said, including Muslims, Jews, and Protestants, were found, questioned, and killed. This shows the corruption of the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages and Renaissance.

30 Years' War (Christianity)
Initially, religion was a motivation for the war as Protestant and Catholic states fought over what is now modern-day Germany and Italy. Involving most of the European countries, it was one of the most destructive conflicts in European history with an estimated 3 to 11.5 million casualties.

French Wars of Religion (Christianity)
The French Wars of Religion is the name of a period of civil infighting and military operations, primarily fought between French Catholics and Protestants. Between 2 and 4 million people were killed.

The Ku Klux Klan Murders (Christianity)
After the American Civil War of 1861–1865, members of the Protestant-led[16] Ku Klux Klan (KKK) organization began engaging in arson, beatings, destruction of property, lynching, murder, rape, tar-and-feathering, whipping and intimidation via such means as cross burning. They targeted African Americans, Jews, Catholics, and other social or ethnic minorities.

Klan members had an explicitly Christian terrorist ideology, basing their beliefs in part on a "religious foundation" in Christianity.[17] The goals of the KKK included, from an early time onward, an intent to "reestablish Protestant Christian values in America by any means possible", and they believed that "Jesus was the first Klansman." From 1915 onward, Klansmen conducted cross-burnings not only to intimidate targets, but also to demonstrate their respect and reverence for Jesus Christ, and the ritual of lighting crosses was steeped in Christian symbolism, including making prayer and singing Christian hymns. Within Christianity the Klan directed hostilities against Catholics. Modern Klan organizations, such as the Knights Party, USA, continue to focus on the Christian supremacist message, detecting a "war" which allegedly aims to destroy "western Christian civilization."


Contemporary

According to terrorism expert David C. Rapoport, a "religious wave", or cycle, of terrorism dates from approximately 1979 to the present.

Contemporary American Christian terrorism, thus far, reflects conservative Christian beliefs in Dominion Theology. Dominion Theology insists that Christians are called by God to (re)build society on Christian values to subjugate the earth and establish dominion over all things,as a pre-requisite for the second coming of Christ.

The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) lists 34 “terrorist” incidents that have occurred within the U.S. since January 1, 2010 to the present. Some of the listed incidents involve weapons charges, some involve actual law-breaking on the part of Christian extremist movements in the U.S. Unfortunately, SPLC fails to define what constitutes a hate crime and what constitutes a terrorist action. Without this differentiation, one is left to draw one’s own conclusions about which actions are terrorist activity by Christian groups.

Outside the U.S., Henderson lists the groups the Eastern Lightning, The Lord’s Resistance Army, the National Liberation Front of Tripura, and, in an interesting turn, Concerned Christians as Christian groups engaging in terrorist activity (information is apparently drawn from the SPLC terrorist report cited earlier). Eastern Lightning operates in China, The Lord’s Resistance Army operates in Africa and the National Liberation Front of Tripura operates in India.

Juergensmeyer, in his 1998 article “Christian Violence in America”, categorizes contemporary violent Christians as being a part of: “…religious activists from Algeria to Idaho, who have come to hate secular governments with an almost transcendent passion and dream of revolutionary changes that will establish a godly social order in the rubble of what the citizens of most secular societies regard as modern, egalitarian democracies.”

On the other hand, Christian activists tend to see themselves as engaged in a war against godless society, the overreach of government, and secular wrongdoing that not only allows, but requires violence to counteract. In this, contemporary Christian extremist groups ironically use verbiage and justifications for violence that are also used by other types of violent religious extremists.

Anti-Hindu violence in India
Tripura

The National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT), is a rebel group that seeks the secession of Tripura, North-East India, and is a proscribed terrorist organization in India. Group activities have been described as Christian terrorists engaging in terrorist violence motivated by their Christian beliefs. The NLFT includes in its aims the forced conversion of all tribespeople in Tripura to Christianity. The NLFT says that it is fighting not only for the removal of Bengali immigrants from the tribal areas, "but also for the tribal areas of the state to become overtly Christian", and "has warned members of the tribal community that they may be attacked if they do not accept its Christian agenda". The NLFT is listed as a terrorist organization in the Prevention of Terrorism Act, 2002. The state government contends that the Baptist Church of Tripura supplies arms and gives financial support to the NLFT. Reports from the state government and Indian media describe activities such as the acquisition by the NLFT of explosives through the Noapara Baptist Church in Tripura,[34] and threats of killing Hindus celebrating religious festivals. Over 20 Hindus in Tripura were reported to have been killed by the NLFT from 1999 to 2001 for resisting forced conversion to Christianity. According to Hindus in the area, there have also been forced conversions of tribal villagers to Christianity by armed NLFT militants. These forcible conversions, sometimes including the use of "rape as a means of intimidation", have also been noted by academics outside of India.

Odisha

In 2007 a tribal spiritual Hindu monk, Swami Lakshmanananda Saraswati, accused Radhakant Nayak, chief of a local chapter of World Vision, and a former Rajya Sabha member from Odisha in the Indian National Congress party, of plotting to assassinate him. The Swami also said that World Vision was covertly pumping money into India for religious conversion during the 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami, and criticized the activities of Christian missionaries as going against tribal beliefs. In 2008, he was gunned down along with four disciples on the Hindu festive day of Krishna Janmashtami by a group of 30–40 armed men. Later, the Maoist terrorist leader Sabyasachi Panda admitted responsibility for the assassination, saying that the Maoists had intervened in the religious dispute on behalf of Christians and Dalits.The non-governmental organization Justice on Trial disputed that there had been Maoist involvement, and quoted the Swami as claiming that Christian missionaries had earlier attacked him eight times.

Sabra and Shatila massacre in Lebanon

Maronite Christian militias perpetrated the Karantina and Tel al-Zaatar massacres of Palestinians and Lebanese Muslims during Lebanon's 1975–1990 civil war. The 1982 Sabra and Shatila massacre, which targeted unarmed Palestinian refugees for rape and murder, was considered to be genocide by the United Nations General Assembly.[45] A British photographer present during the incident said that "People who committed the acts of murder that I saw that day were wearing [crucifixes] and were calling themselves Christians."[46] After the end of the civil war, Christian militias refused to disband, concentrating in the Israeli-occupied south of the country, where they terrorized Muslim and Druze villages and forcefully recruited men and boys from those communities into their groups.

Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda

The Lord's Resistance Army, a cult and guerrilla army, was engaged in an armed rebellion against the Ugandan government in 2005. It has been accused of using child soldiers and of committing numerous crimes against humanity; including massacres, abductions, mutilation, torture, rape, and using forced child labourers as soldiers, porters, and sex slaves. A quasi-religious movement that mixes some aspects of Christian beliefs with its own brand of spiritualism, it is led by Joseph Kony, who proclaims himself the spokesperson of God and a spirit medium, primarily of the "Holy Spirit" which the Acholi believe can represent itself in many manifestations. LRA fighters wear rosary beads and recite passages from the Bible before battle.

United States

See also: Anti-abortion violence in the United States and Christian terrorism in the United States
After 1981, members of groups such as the Army of God began attacking abortion clinics and doctors across the United States. A number of terrorist attacks were attributed by Bruce Hoffman to individuals and groups with ties to the Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movements, including the Lambs of Christ. A group called Concerned Christians was deported from Israel on suspicion of planning to attack holy sites in Jerusalem at the end of 1999; they believed that their deaths would "lead them to heaven".

Eric Robert Rudolph carried out the Centennial Olympic Park bombing in 1996, as well as subsequent attacks on an abortion clinic and a lesbian nightclub. Michael Barkun, a professor at Syracuse University, considers Rudolph to likely fit the definition of a Christian terrorist. James A. Aho, a professor at Idaho State University, argues that religious considerations inspired Rudolph only in part.

Terrorism scholar Aref M. Al-Khattar has listed The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord (CSA), Defensive Action, the Montana Freemen, and some "Christian militia" as groups that "can be placed under the category of far-right-wing terrorism" that "has a religious (Christian) component".

In 1996 three men—Charles Barbee, Robert Berry and Jay Merelle—were charged with two bank robberies and bombings at the banks, a Spokane newspaper, and a Planned Parenthood office in Washington state. The men were anti-Semetic Christian Identity theorists who believed that God wanted them to carry out violent attacks and that such attacks will hasten the ascendancy of Aryan race.

In 2011, analyst Daryl Johnson of the United States Department of Homeland Security said that the Hutaree Christian militia movement possessed more weapons than the combined weapons holdings of all Islamic terror defendants charged in the US since the September 11 attacks.

Amen.

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 21, 2015 - 07:39am PT
Right on Wade Icey....great analysis!

But time moves on, the planet is now slightly OVER 6000 years old.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 21, 2015 - 07:46am PT
Thanks for the history lesson, Wade.

How many killings have been carried out in the name of Christianity over the last year? Last decade?

How many killings have been carried out in the name of Islam over the last year? Last decade?

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