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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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How many of you read my long post above? Before you make comments on what should be done I suggest you get the heartbeat on what is being done. As far as commercial operations go that is what is being done and that is not about to change. In fact once the NRPM is passed the regs will soften. For instance, we will not be required to have a PPL as we do now.
to answer your question Reilly, first you should refer to a post I made way up thread.
For group 1 the ratio is infinite. Zero:Everyone
Group number 2 - same ratio. Zero:Everyone
Group number 3 - not infinite because this is the group where the f*#ktards that do stupid sh#t are. I can't even take a guess on the ratio but it really doesn't matter as we know there is more than zero. Which is the problem.
Although i suppose a case can be made for another group where the ratio is 1:1 - the terrorists plotting to use this technology to try to commit major crimes against humanity.
The old school AMA guys wrote the book on ethical flying. They are all responsible. The commercial operators like myself are not going to do stupid sh#t because our lively hood is on the line. it's the kids with the toy (actually, it's more often dumb sh#t adults but I digress) that is doing this sh#t.
But the ones that are going to attempt to commit the heinous crimes
- the terrorists - no regulations or transponders or laws or anything are going to deter them.
You propose a transponder on all units sold but do you really think you're going to get China to get behind that? Because that's where DJI is based and those remain the most popular units sold. Second are vehicles sold by the surrender monkeys - the French. And in fact most units sold are not even sold in the United States. So now you will be proposing global laws? good luck with that.
In the below photo are three vehicles. Take a guess on which one of these has a serial number and which ones does knot.
The white one has a serial number. The others do not. The reason for that is simple. The white one - a DJI Phantom - was sold as a unit. The other two were built from parts that were acquired from all over the world. Thus they couldn't be sold with a transponder since they were not sold as unit in the first place. Thus the idea of scratching off the number and removing the transponder is moot.
I point that out to say that that if a terrorist wants to do something with an army of drones they are not going down to the local hobby shop and buying a bunch of phantoms. they will buy or make all the parts they need.
Now at the end of the day one of these units will have an N number (tail number) and will be registered with the FAA as an experimental vehicle. It'll be The Table with 28" props. That vehicle by the way was built to carry a LIDAR unit to do commercial mapping. I saw it fly the other day and it's scary. I found myself walking backwards. those props will kill you.
For my vehicles that are registered I'm required to have the N number visible - 2" letters/numbers, I'm required to have 'experimental' displayed. and I'm also required to have my HAM license number displayed. Further, since I build my own i have to created and inscribe a serial number which the FAA has recorded. But here's the thing - that won't matter. It'll never be an issue unless the GPS goes wonky and the thing flies away and then hopefully it'll be found and tracked back to me and hopefully returned. and it certainly will not be an issue with respect to some nefarious act.
Here's a question for you Reilly - how big are transponders? Can I get one that is say less than 10 grams and is very small? I assume not (and i really don't know - I'm asking a sincere question).
I've no doubt as all of you that there will be a strike. But I'll bet a six pack that the first one does not happen in the US. my money, erm, beer, is on Heathrow airport. All the laws you propose make no difference once you leave our borders. So again, global laws? And to those that state these are the bane of humanity and never should have been allowed to come into existence good luck with that as well. Good luck telling China what they can and cannot do. Because China is where this started in so many ways and China is where most of the parts are made.
My teacher offers a very important lesson - wish for what is possible. I read DMTs post on how "simple" it is and go ' yeah, um no, not happening'. it's not simple. it's not simple because it's not possible. It's not going to happen. And I'm not offering my opinion on if at the core it's a good idea or not. It's not practical just like I feel transponders are not practical.
Here's an example of an incident that pisses me off and shows just how far we have to go. There were two news helicopters flying a scene when some f*#ktard drone operator started playing chase with them. The guys aboard the choppers were pissed as they should have been. They followed the drone until it landed, watched the guy pick it up and take it to his house. Should be easy from here, right? The police show up and and ask the woman who answered the door if anyone inside owned a drone. She responded "No" and the police left. NOTHING happened to this mother f*#ker. We can't even get laws on the books and enforce them to make pieces of sh#t like that pay for their crime. So to propose what DMT does I just go "no, ain't happening". Also the vehicle he was flying he (or a friend?) built - it wasn't a phantom.
Wish for what is possible guys and put your energy there I suppose is what i'm saying. I'm not arguing that something is going to happen. I see it more than you guys do because i read the news daily. I've no choice as I've chosen this path. A path to be a commercial operator and also a path to be an ambassador. Squishy has done the same just in a different area.
oh and Reilly... i didn't realize you had a ton of avionics knowledge. Cool. And, by the way, Power off stalls are a f*#king RiOT!
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squishy
Mountain climber
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I'm helping put on several drone races in the bay area and Sacramento in the next few months. I invite you to come and see for yourself...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nature, I'm glad there are guys like you out there. Sadly, you can't be cloned.
You're probably right that the first nefarious act will be in Europe.
I aver that the first fuktard event will be here.
"Power off stalls are a f*#king RiOT!"
Dude, power ON stalls are where it is at! They will put yer shiny side
down faster than you can say "SUPERTOPO!"
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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yeah, we did a power on stall. When the right wing dipped hard things got exciting. It's only taken four lessons to realize I can land. Wheeew!
Another thing I wanted to note above is that DJI has geofencing turned on in the firmware and has no-fly areas configured as well as max AGL.
https://www.mapbox.com/drone/no-fly/
a good hacker can work their way around this but the point is that DJI is trying.
Still looking for answers on transponders as I really do not know much about them. But I'm assuming the size and power matters. in other words if I somehow had a transponder that weighed five grams and output a microwatt it wouldn't do much good, right? ATC would never pick it up. If that's true then it follows that you need a bigger and more powerful transponder for ATC to see it. How big are they? How much do they weigh? Because at a certain point if it's too big it's simply not practical to float it.
How much is a transponder?
My big bird - The Beast - weighs in at 1.8 Kilo with no battery and a gopro on a gimbal for payload. I get about 25 minutes of flight time. Start adding weight - lots of weight - and my flight time starts to approach just a couple minutes and thus renders any mission as non-practical/do-able.
Further to that DMT states all drones should have a transponder.
So this will then need a transponder?
or this?
or the next size up?
point is it's not so simple any longer.
another prediction: the first terrorist act attempt won't happen with multi-rotors. It'll happen with a fixed wing. Maybe something like this that a friend built:
This is made out of styrofoam board that you get at the dollar store. longer flight time and way more payload. A dollar for the air frame and another $25 for components.
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Fixed wing drones were the 1st in the hobby world, before multirotors...I was flying fixed wings via camera and live video feeds 5 years ago...it looks like some simple RC airplane action, but it ain't..
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Aug 10, 2015 - 09:32am PT
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I had a chance to go over recent footage this weekend and make a new sick edit...I dedicate this one to dingus...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Aug 10, 2015 - 11:21am PT
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drone fishing that is some funny shit!
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Aug 10, 2015 - 11:32am PT
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Would have been even funnier if it'd resulted in some nice splashdown footage.
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Aug 10, 2015 - 01:30pm PT
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This gets
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Aug 10, 2015 - 01:31pm PT
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Gets this! Drones Suck..
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Aug 10, 2015 - 06:45pm PT
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dumb drunk fisherman almost cost himself three grand with that one cast. he's lucky he didn't bring it down.
a better course of action might have been a simple beatdown of the douc hebag operator. less jail time. less expensive.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Aug 10, 2015 - 06:51pm PT
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dumb drunk fisherman almost cost himself three grand with that one cast. he's lucky he didn't bring it down
under what law/statue? just curious...
The precedent for prosecution for destruction of drones so far is related to people shooting them down. It is about discharging the firearm in a possibly unsafe way.
Is his cast equivalent to attempting to destroy a paparazzi camera?
EDIT: Dont bother answering nature. After reading some legal briefs and articles written by lawyers regarding the castle doctrine and robots, as well as trespassing and privacy rights in public, I have concluded that the legality is so unclear that no response you will give will clarify.
No way the dude gets in trouble.
I know there is no expectation of privacy in public. This is not the same. There is a line that is crossed and it is called harassment, which is what many drone operators are doing to people in public spaces.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 10, 2015 - 07:41pm PT
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dumb drunk fisherman
Well, he wasn't too drunk or dumb if he stuck that cast!
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Aug 10, 2015 - 08:20pm PT
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the operator was a douch ebag all the way. does he deserve to have his drone taken out of the sky? yeah, sure. though a good beating was probably in order.
Destruction of personal property is what the fisherman was looking at. That's a crime. No different than if I took a baseball bat and beat your camera to crap with it. Then there is the classification of the vehicle itself - FAA views it the same way as any other flying thing. That needs to change because it makes no sense. But taking down a plane I believe it's up to $500K fine and six years hard time.
So let's review here.
1) I'm in no way defending this particular operators mission
2) It was an excellent cast for sure
3) destruction of someones personal property is a crime
4) nothing the operator did was a crime
5) taking pictures in public is not a crime. This "argument" has been going on since cameras were invented - google it. You have no right to privacy in public. You can be photographed without permission. However, if it is for commercial use the person(s) being photographed must sign a model release. If they do not want them used then the images cannot be used commercially.
6) see point 1) - operator was a douch ebag for that flight
and CA - this guy got in trouble:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCvfdz-sWxw
he was facing destruction of personal property - jail time. The operators in this case settled and did not press charges so long as the drunk guy payed full price for the drone. That swat cost him $1500.
and DMT... don't go putting thoughts or ideas on me. None of the sh#t you said is correct about what I want. what the f*#k is wrong with you?
and on another note our petition for the FAA 333 exemption was submitted friday of last week. In about two months we should have it and will be in full commercial ops - legally.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Aug 10, 2015 - 08:58pm PT
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and CA - this guy got in trouble:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCvfdz-sWxw
he was facing destruction of personal property. The operators in this case settled and did not press charges so long as the drunk guy payed full price for the drone
did you even watch it? lol
He has not been charged and the owner said he will take the case to small claims court if he has to. re watch it.
do you have more updated info about the case that you didnt link to? cause otherwise you straight up lied about its content.
here is a good read regarding drones over your private land
https://gigaom.com/2014/10/01/can-you-shoot-down-a-drone-on-your-land-new-incident-raises-self-defense-questions/
EDIT
3) destruction of someones personal property is a crime
is it if the destruction occurs while said property is in the process of harassing the individual who destroys it? Seriously I dont know.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Aug 10, 2015 - 09:12pm PT
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lol... actually... no i didn't. too fast on the google i guess. there's another story about it around somewhere. lemme see if i can find it. was a more updated report.
is it if the destruction occurs while said property is in the process of harassing the individual who destroys it? Seriously I dont know.
I'll see if i can find it but you do have a right to defend yourself from an attack drone. At which point you can take it out. The article I read made it seem like you had to be fearful of bodily harm. Can I take out a Loud Harley because it's presence I fell is harassment?
I don't see that flight as harassment. Annoying sure. I'd never do that flight which is why I won't defend him. F*#king DJI operators.
i don't know either. but we're about to find out. sadly.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Aug 10, 2015 - 09:21pm PT
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The article I read made it seem like you had to be fearful of bodily harm.
That is the tradition I believe so I would agree with that. However from what I understand, drones are unprecedented still in a legal sense.
Drones are an issue because they instantly arrive without declaring intentions. Are you filming a timelapse video at the PB Pier for a grad project at SCRIPS? Or are you a weird voyeur doing homework for your skin suit? People can put guns on them now. Does that drone belong to a terrorist about to unload on me?
You see the dilemma?
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Aug 10, 2015 - 09:26pm PT
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Guns can be put on them, sure. But not legally. Wonder what happened to the kid. Probably still a work in progress.
as far as what the guy was doing at the pier i think it's pretty obvious but I could be wrong. He was an amateur with no understanding of ethical flight. SCRIPS is flying but could give a crap less about drunk fisherman.
and yes dingus - he was drunk. I say that cuz I'm a fisherman and I can't remember not having beer. maybe not drunk but guys like that... ugh. Not a fan of fisherman like that. I was diving this weekend and dropping in on wharf 2 in Monterey for some macroshot. some fisherman made a long cast close enough to me I didn't like it. f*#k that guy.
Total dickhead operator. It's hard to not enjoy the ending.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
There's many a dilemma. not sure how it'll play out. For the most part I don't care since I'm in a different category. The list of restrictions we're facing to operate commercially is what puts us there. These non-commercial, just got one for my birthday and it flies out of the box, are where the real trouble is. I hope the fad wears off.
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