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Watermann2
Mountain climber
Saluzzo Italia
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 5, 2015 - 07:02am PT
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Good Morning to ALL,(I apologize if trouble yet, but having this forum (supertopo the best experts, ask this question .Thank you very much) I wanted to ask a question: these two VERY GREAT routes on El Capitan, (Sea of Dreams and Reticent Wall, two masterpieces of the climb) (and here I hope to make me understand what I want to know) So, we can say that these two great routes are the same as technical difficulties, dangers ect ect, or Reticent Wall is harder Sea of Dreams? (Even if only slightly, but it's even harder to Sea of Dreams) Excuse me, but did not understand your language (and I am very sorry), (only automatic translator that translates not quite right) he seemed to have understood (but not I am absolutely sure) that the great Mr. Kirkpatrick, the put on the same level (I repeat, surely I translated wrong) then, I wanted to know, if still Reticent Wall, is slightly more difficult (even if only slightly, is a step harder. )
Then yet another question, on this great route (Sea of Dreams)
From what I know myself, the first solo climb was made by the great Xavier Bongard, I want to please know if any of you know of other solitary climb this great route.
Thank you for all the information you give me
I apologize for the translation (machine translation)
Greetings to all from Italy.
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overwatch
climber
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I can't answer your questions but I appreciate the fact that you post interesting on topic threads. Thank you
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Watermann2
Mountain climber
Saluzzo Italia
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 5, 2015 - 08:20am PT
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Thanks for the answer Mr.Overwatch! I hope (this forum to me is the best in the world, because we have great climbers who give answers and information so nice and not at all arrogant or conceited (in Italy it is not so) And I thank them a lot, too if, my questions may seem silly, but I like to know as much as possible over those concerns climbing (in fact I received answers from the great climbers of this forum and I thank them very much)
I have the utmost respect and are very honored of your answers and information.
thanks a lot
Greetings to all.
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Typewriters and Ledges
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Does Watermann2 think overwatch gave an answer to his question?
Is it even possible to give an answer about the subtle nuances of difficulty between two routes that will be understood once it flows through the mechanical translators that Watermann2 will be using to understand our answers?
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Captain...or Skully
climber
Boise, ID
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I'd seek the counsel of Andy KP or Ammon or The Gerberding or someone. They'll give you straight goods. There are others....
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Watermann2
Mountain climber
Saluzzo Italia
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 6, 2015 - 03:23am PT
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Good Morning Mr. j-tree for Your answer!
So, I do not know your language, translate with automatic translator. But, I repeat it, if you need them, in your answers, I do not quite understand, I'm lucky to have a friend who understands the English language very well, so I have no problems about what you said:
"" "" "" "" "" "" Is it even possible to give an answer about the subtle nuances of difficulty between two routes That will be understood once it flows through the mechanical translators Watermann2 That will be using to understand our answers? "" "" "" "" "
Anyway, I thank you, and if she had climbed these two masterpieces, please tell me your impressions, then I think we have to translate with the utmost precision!
Thank you very much Regards.
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enjoimx
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Aid climbing sucks
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Watermann2
Mountain climber
Saluzzo Italia
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 6, 2015 - 03:53am PT
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Thank You Mr. Robert. L. for Your answer
In September 2011, Andy Kirkpatrick (British Climbing Legend) attempted to solo Suser Gjennom Harryland (VI A3 5.10b 600m) on the Troll wall on Norway. The previous two solo attempts by Brits resulted in rescues, one with a broken femur and the other with a broken back – this was Andy’s 3rd solo attempt.
The Troll Wall is part of the mountain massif Trolltindene (Troll Peaks) in the Romsdalen valley, near Åndalsnes and Molde, on the Norwegian west coast. The Troll Wall is the tallest vertical rock face in Europe, about 1,100 metres (3,600 ft) from its base to the summit of its highest point. At its steepest, the summit ridge overhangs the base of the wall by nearly 50 metres (160 ft).
Ah, you say that the great Kirkpatrick found more difficult TROLL WALL that Reticent Wall? Thanks, I did not know this thing! But this, (of course I may be wrong, in fact be wrong for sure) but I also thought that the conditions of TROLL WALL are much more difficult than on El Capitan. First of all the cold, then the weather , then approach the wall ect. ect. This is my humble opinion, but it can be wrong! Anyway, then Kirkpatrick did the first masterpiece in winter! CHAPEAU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://andy-kirkpatrick.com/blog/view/winter_ascent_of_suser_gjennon_harryland_troll_wall_norway
Thank you very much Greetings
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Gagner
climber
Boulder
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I did Reticent two years ago, but haven't done the Sea --- yet. Reticent was NTB, really. I'd say it was pretty straight forward. Don't get me wrong - the two crux pitches have some heads up climbing, and you wouldn't want to blow it in a few places. It is certainly way easier than when originally done.
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10b4me
Social climber
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Paging Andy KP
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Handjam Belay
Gym climber
expat from the truth
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I climbed the Sea of Dreams in 2000 or 2001. Whatever year the base jump demonstration gone wrong was.
My 15 years ago thoughts:
What a beautiful line, pieced together through an iconic chunk of rock.
The anchors were good enough, but not shiny.
THERE WERE SO MANY HOOK HOLES I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT. This is always what I didn't understand...yes, the Hook or Book has potential to fall, but EVERY single placement is heavily engineered.
Crux move on the "don't skate mate", drilled.
I've never heard anyone else speak to this fact.
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Judging by friends stories (Chris Kalous for one example) the Reticent is much stouter with more direct potential for injury.
Now that I'm thinking about this one of my partners (Rasta Mike) on Sea had climbed Reticent with Russ/Warren.
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Testpieces of different eras.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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I climbed Reticent in 1998 with two talented partners. It was the eighth ascent, and at the time extremely difficult. The second last pitch was the real deal, with loose rock and pretty much nothing to stop you if you were to have blown it. Extremely frightening, I backed off after five hours when a head failed on me [the swage, not the placement] and my partner finished it in another eight hours the next day.
I hear the pitch is significantly easier these days, and actually has pro. The route has been climbed, what - thirty times? Forty times? For a while you would see people on it seemingly all the time. I have heard a lot of the loose rock is gone, and it's not too bad now.
The pitch above Wino Tower still retains a lot of its original spice, but after so many ascents....?
I climbed the Sea in 2001, and found it sustained and difficult from bottom to top. You don't get as many reprieves on the Sea as you do on Reticent, where you get to climb Harding dowel ladders for a ways, or get some nice cracks. Hook or Book didn't seem too bad to me, but at the time, I didn't know nor care anything about drilled hooks.
The Sea is ultra classic because of its location, and how it climbs the diorite. Diorite is spooky, for instance I found the Appalachia pitch on Continental Drift - second ascent, modestly rated A3+ - one of the hardest pitches I have ever led. But the Sea weaves its way through great features on the wall in an improbable location. A much more natural line than the Wyoming Sheep Ranch or Continental Drift, but easier now after so many ascents over the years.
The Ranch offers similarly great and hard aid climbing through the diorite, though with crappy belays and hauling by comparison. The Drift - not to be confused with Adrift - is really good, too.
Early repeats are certainly harder than climbing routes that have been done often. It is hard to figure out what and how to climb it, and they retain much of the original spice. I thought The Real Nose was extremely well climbed, with almost no rivets and bolts through its upper reaches, very stiff and technical hard aid climbing, the Real Deal on at least three Real A4 pitches, with dangerous and terrifying fall potential on the hooking above Grey Ledges. My hands are still sweating thinking about that one, sheesh. A real DFU pitch, for sure, one of the most DFU ever, for sure.
Continental Drift was a bit surprising and disappointing to me, because of the very large number of bat hook holes. 50? It was the way the First Ascensionists chose to climb it, rather than placing rivets. I guess if you can accept that this is how it is done, then you will enjoy the route. It is certainly hard, with some quality climbing.
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Watermann2
Mountain climber
Saluzzo Italia
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 6, 2015 - 10:51am PT
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Hello everyone, Wow!!!!!!!!!!! I am very happy and honored and I thank you very much for your answers and explanations You are of the greatest climbers, but very kind and modest and this is an honor for you and for me that I will read to first thank the GREAT 'Pass the Pitons' for its long explanation! thanks a lot! Then of course all the other great climbers, many congratulations to those who Climbed these masterpieces, two of the most difficult climbs in the world ! CHAPEAU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Thanks again for Your kindness and patience you have with me!
Greetings to ALL.
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Watermann2
Mountain climber
Saluzzo Italia
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 6, 2015 - 11:38am PT
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Yes Mr. Captain...or Skully:
Chapeau is French for hat, but it's a way of saying) (is an expression of admiration) in Italy would be: Hats off, but the expression in French, has now taken over in most of the world, then it is said Chapeau! !!
Chapeau
"chapeau!" (hat) is an expression that indicates a deep admiration for someone, or for the gesture that someone did. It is used as an expression of knightly admired approval, as the act of "taking off his hat," in fact, before an enterprise, a phrase, a circumstance, something that is worth emphasizing.
Many regards
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Mark Smith and I did the fifth ascent of the Sea back in I think it was 1987. After that I published an article entitled "How Many Holes?" in Rock and Ice. We noted then that the Sea had hundreds of holes, mostly in the form of drilled hooks. Hook or Book could not have gone without the many drilled hooks. The first placement off of Continental Shelf was a drilled hook on a 45-degree angled shelf, and that was just the start.
We counted over 300 holes on the Sea by the time of the fifth ascent, and that was before the thing sprouted countless trenched heads, etc. We rapped down over Hook or Book years later and found a whole nest of trenched heads in it, so there was tons and tons of chicken-drilling in later ascents, which is what happens to these classic aid routes.
That said, when we did it, we recognized that the Sea was clearly a masterpiece. My impressions was that the drilling was entirely justified to "manufacture" a classic and entirely sustainable line. The chicken-drilling that came later was entirely unnecessary!
Had people treated the route with respect and had the integrity to back off rather than drill more, the route would still be in the state it was at the FA. I repeat, the FA drilling made an entirely sustainable route, and nothing more needed to be done. What the FA left was a very sustained and very in-your-face route that would hold up well against any of the modern testpieces. The Bird et al knew the game and put up something truly classic!
I feel honored and humbled to have been able to enjoy an early ascent of it. Hats off to the Bird and Team, or "Chapeau," if that's right.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
Boise, ID
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Sounds right to me. Have a good time on whatever you end up selecting there, Watermann2!
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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My, how times have changed on the Captain since Mark and Richard's ascent of the Sea, or more precisely, those who climbed it, and altered it.
You can say what you like about Tom Evans - and believe me, I will have some things to say - but having someone there with a telescope watching and photographing every move you make every inch of the way up the wall brings a high degree of accountability to climbing on El Cap.
I once got the Stick of the Day photo for putting a hook on the end of a stick. Turns out I was missing bathook holes, which I never even thought to look for. Imagine if anyone were to get the Drilling On Lead of the Day photo these days....?
"Chapeau" to Watermann2. "Sac de merde" to the other guy.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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LOL... Pete, we would never have thought to look for drilled hooks on the Sea either. Fortunately for us, Rob Slater gave us a heads up: "If you guys don't bring a couple of pointy Chouinards, you're not gonna get anywhere! There's millions of hook holes that take only Chouinards."
A few minutes with a grinder: Problem solved. Was he ever right.
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WBraun
climber
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look for drilled hooks on the Sea
Yeah, I didn't see the hook divots so I thought maybe Dale free climbed here.
So I step out of the ladders and take off to the belay.
I look down and see the divots after getting to the belay.
Yowza .......
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