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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 28, 2015 - 07:49am PT
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SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket broke up just minutes after its launch with a robotic Drago cargo capsule for the International Space Station, NASA said.
The Falcon took off right on time, rising into the sunny skies over Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florda at 10:21 a.m. ET. But shortly afterward, NASA spokesman George Diller reported that the launch vehicle was lost.
BREAKING
SCIENCE
JUN 28 2015, 10:36 AM ET
SpaceX Rocket Breaks Up After Launch With Space Station Cargo, NASA Says
The mission's primary objective was to deliver the Dragon to the space station with more than two and a half tons of supplies, equipment and experiments — ranging from a new docking adapter for accommodating future U.S.-built spaceships to a virtual-reality headset for the station's crew.
This was to have been the first robotic cargo delivery since a Russian Progress capsule went awry in April, resulting in the loss of the craft's 3-ton payload. The Dragon's payload includes food, oxygen and other much-needed basics — and its loss will put even more pressure on the crew and mission planners.
The Dragon previously made six successful cargo runs under the terms of a $1.6 billion contract with NASA, plus an initial demonstration mission in 2012. Sunday's loss marked SpaceX's first failed mission to the space station.
Space is as dangerous as BASE jumping. Good thing it was not manned. We are going to Mars with rockets blowing up still?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 28, 2015 - 08:19am PT
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I wish I could think of a bigger waste of money but I can't, other than the Pentagon.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 28, 2015 - 08:18pm PT
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Sunday was Musk's 44th birthday. The SpaceX founder also runs his electric car company, Tesla.
"Yeah, not the best birthday," Musk tweeted.
One expensive trick candle.
Data stopped flowing from the Falcon 9 rocket around 2 minutes and 19 seconds, he said.
SpaceX founder and chief executive Elon Musk later said that the pressure got too high in the liquid-oxygen tank of the rocket's upper stage.
"That's all we can say with confidence right now," Musk said via Twitter.
The private company is in charge of the accident investigation, with oversight from the Federal Aviation Administration, which licensed the flight.
The Dragon capsule, which is designed to eventually carry people, still sent signals to the ground after the rocket broke apart, said SpaceX President Gwynne Shotwell. Had astronauts been on board, a still-being tested abort system, would have whisked them away to safety in such a mishap, she said.
SpaceX hopes to launch astronauts from U.S. soil again aboard the Falcon-Dragon combination in December 2017. They still can make that target, Shotwell said. Now NASA buys seats from Russia to get astronauts to the orbiting lab.
Shotwell assured reporters that the California-based company will fix the problem - "and get back to flight."
A hunting safari for the blind might be safer. Whisked away?
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jstan
climber
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Jun 28, 2015 - 10:34pm PT
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Apollo 13
Later NASA contracts were required to follow very tight Mission Assurance protocols that made building hardware seem close to impossible. Oxygen was a huge problem in the Mercury program also. Three dead there.
http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/04/apollo-13-the-mistakes-the-explosion-and-six-hours-of-live-saving-decisions/2/
45 years after Apollo 13: Ars looks at what went wrong and why
You’ve probably seen the film—but the reality is a lot more complicated.
by Lee Hutchinson - Apr 16, 2015 6:00am PDT
What happened in space
Liquefied cryogens like liquid oxygen tend to "stratify" in microgravity—that is, without gravity to hold them down, they separate out into various layers and spread around inside a given volume. When that volume is the inside of a tank, the stratification makes it difficult to measure the tank’s fill level. So the Apollo service module’s oxygen tanks included a set of internal fans—little paddle-like impellers—to stir the tanks’ contents into a more uniform mass for quantity measurements.
These "cryo stir" operations were carried out with regularity throughout every Apollo flight. What no one knew was that on Apollo 13, each cryo stir was a potential catastrophe in the making. Every time Tank 2’s fans were triggered, current raced through the damaged wires.
At 56 hours in, command module pilot Jack Swigert performed a planned cryo stir. It’s theorized that a spark from a damaged wire ignited a piece of Teflon insulation in Tank 2. The Teflon burned very rapidly in the oxygen-thick environment, causing a near-instant pressure spike within the tank up to 6,000 psi (about 41 MPa). This quickly overwhelmed not only the capacity of the tank’s overpressure relief valve, but the structural integrity of the tank itself.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jun 28, 2015 - 11:00pm PT
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Jun 28, 2015 - 08:19am PT
I wish I could think of a bigger waste of money but I can't, other than the Pentagon.
Oil depletion allowance
Paying farmers not to grow crops.
Sugar beet subsidy.
TSA
The wall at the Mexican border.
And the winner is....
The bomb shelter for Congress under the Greenbriar hotel.
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couchmaster
climber
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Jun 29, 2015 - 06:18am PT
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Reilly said:
Reilly said -quote:"I wish I could think of a bigger waste of money but I can't, other than the Pentagon."
A significant percentage of the space program expenditure is defense related. As such, I don't agree Reilly. There is plenty of wasted US military money in weapons and global imperialism. Our military is in 130 countries, we could save craploads by pulling troops out of most of them for instance.
Given that new disruptive technology often wins the next war that is just around the corner. (ie, WW1, WW2--->coming up) It seems to me that our country's very safety and security is directly related to who controls space. Does anyone prefer it to not be us, but some other country? North Korea, or China perhaps? The government is trying to keep costs down while still developing our war ability in space, and space X is part of that cost cutting/public-private investment partnership. It is critically valuable for us all. Good on the Obama Administration for doing it.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Jun 29, 2015 - 09:15am PT
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I thought that WE invented rockets that didn't explode, back in like 1964....
So space X is reinventing the Ford Falcon????
Sad example of the decline of the USA.
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jstan
climber
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Jun 29, 2015 - 09:34am PT
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Neil DeGrasse Tyson's response to this topic. He "goes off"on topics all the while laughing at himself. while we enjoy the trip. Whether you agree or disagree it is always fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbIZU8cQWXc
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 29, 2015 - 09:38am PT
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Moosie, the space program is just one chunk of the military-industrial-congressional complex.
I thought you were a peacenik? Besides, if we need to know about space it's a lot cheaper
to just ask Werner, isn't it? Furthermore, it's quite clear that the aliens don't want to have
anything to do with us. Who could blame them?
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couchmaster
climber
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Jun 29, 2015 - 10:10am PT
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In the 30's, Winston Churchill thought that Britain could avoid the next war forming with Germany if they would better prepare for it. It turned out to so. As Churchill indicated, one can be a "peacenik" opposed to disarmament and want to have a staunch defense. "If you wish peace, then prepare for war" was one of his favorites, although the saying predates him by a couple thousand years.
Winston Churchill said: "This truth may be unfashionable, unpalatable, no doubt unpopular, but, if it is the truth, the story of mankind shows that war was universal and unceasing for millions of years before armaments were invented or armies organized. Indeed, the lucid intervals of peace and order only occurred in human history after armaments in the hands of strong governments have come into being, and civilization in every age has been nursed only in cradles guarded by superior weapons and superior discipline."
Closer to home: "To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace. -George Washington"
From my view, Teddy Roosevelt had it on the money when he said: "Walk softly, but carry a big stick".
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jun 29, 2015 - 10:20am PT
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So space X is reinventing the Ford Falcon????
They're buying old Russian engines for $1M instead of buying new US one's for around $20M. You get what you pay for. Gotta wonder what the payload was worth.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jun 29, 2015 - 10:23am PT
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Furthermore, it's quite clear that the aliens don't want to have
anything to do with us. Who could blame them?
They're just waiting while more an more of us get nice and fat and juicy. They'll be here soon enough. Best to be scrawny and unappetizing.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 29, 2015 - 10:27am PT
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The whole space program is a complete failure.
The fools only got some stoopid fake orange juice out of it called Tang after spending trillions.
For the materially conditioned earthlings there's no escape from planet earth by their materially conditioned earthling bodies.
Stooopid scientists will still take your hard earned money to be wasted trying .....
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jun 29, 2015 - 11:06am PT
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Elon has enough money that he can afford to look far into the future, to think of his personal legacy and the legacy of humanity, and he is investing himself in that vision that will one day benefit our descendants.
To make practical advancements- not just in ability to do something first, but to do it cost-effectively in a manner that facilitates practical use of the technology- to make such advancements, there are bound to be numerous setbacks. Successful people know how to learn from such mistakes, solve the problems encountered, and go on to greater things. Small minded people focus on the failures, reinforcing their acceptance and even celebration of mediocrity, their acceptance of being confined by traditions and boundaries and living at the mercy of mysterious forces rather than being active agents of our own fate. Should we sit in the rain in a puddle because god wills it or should we learn to build a shelter? I'm glad some of our ancestors had vision, and I'm glad some humans today do as well.
I just got back from 2 weeks sleeping under the stars across the southwestern US, and loved every moment of it. And I come home to a roof that I appreciate more than when I left. I like taking breaks from technology, and I like returning to it. Experiencing each end of the spectrum makes me appreciate them both the more. I think the ends of the spectrum will keep broadening over time, and our ability to appreciate each end will continue growing.
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jstan
climber
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Jun 29, 2015 - 11:39am PT
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We have to await SpaceX's event report but past history suggests we have a persistent problem with transporting liquid oxygen in the weightless environment. Making up little fans out of combustable materials and putting them in the oxygen seems a poor way to go.
If we could get UV into the tank without also putting combustable materials in there, might we get changes in translational energy by putting LED's inside that emit in the UV, and apply a time varying electrostatic field? Can't do that, of course, if the metallic tank acts as a Faraday Cage. Any evaporated electrode inside would have to use an insulator, also inside. Noncombustible insulator?
On the other hand oxygen is a diatomic molecule possessing a magnetic moment. It won/t do a lot of good lining up those moments if we don't affect translational energy. But again the metallic tank presents a problem.
Suppose we make a sufficiently strong ceramic tank out of a ceramic that itself has magnetic properties. Dope it with iron aligned to a magnetic field? If the tank has a north and a south pole configuration the second law says there will be mixing between the two moments in the oxygen at the interface. 3D plasma deposition printing with iron doping to make the tank?
Maybe SpaceX is already trying to do some such?
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TLP
climber
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Jun 29, 2015 - 12:06pm PT
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KSolem wrote:
They're buying old Russian engines for $1M instead of buying new US one's for around $20M. You get what you pay for.
That's Orbital Sciences who buys the old refurbished Russian rocket engines, for their Antares rockets (one of which blew up just above the launch pad, a couple of months ago, kinda looks like an engine failure). The SpaceX engines are made in house.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jun 29, 2015 - 12:08pm PT
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I wish I could think of a bigger waste of money but I can't, other than the Pentagon.
Truly....
Imagine where we could be if the human race could focus it's collective profits on infecting a new space rock instead of killing each other here for an ever dwindling supply of resources.
But really the first step is cracking the warp problem. Without that we're not heading anywhere.
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vlani
Trad climber
mountain view, ca
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Jun 29, 2015 - 12:32pm PT
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Soyuz rockets fly on liquid oxygen since 1966. It is not rocket since.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jun 29, 2015 - 01:23pm PT
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THe Ol Boys from North Amerian Rockwell- Rocketdyne division could teach the SpaceX guys a thing or two.
Not for long...
Edit
That's Orbital Sciences who buys the old refurbished Russian rocket engines
Ooops. Brain fart. Thanks.
There's a book called "The Engines That Came in From The Cold." Now it's all over as TV docs etc. Pretty interesting story there.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jun 29, 2015 - 04:03pm PT
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Whole lot of misinformation here. Rocketry is hard. Both liquid and solid engines.
Certainly they weren't perfected back in the 1960s. Both we and the Russians have had many issues since then. Both on rockets intended for space, and ICBMs. Google "Titan Damascus incident". Or the Challenger disaster.
There will be accidents. But I'm fairly confident SpaceX will improve reliability and lower costs. And going into space does provide value. Do none of you complainers ever use GPS?
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