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dirtbag
climber
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It's incredible that we are still fighting the Civil War 150 years later.
A few times here, I've seen the Civil War referred to, not ironically, as the war of northern aggression.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Many posters think they're experts on an issue that is far removed from your world. They spout off about ignorance, intolerance and hate, while demonstrating those same characteristics.
The idea that a significant portion of Confederate flag defenders do not view it in a racist context, instead consider it a symbol of pride/heritage (without racial/racist overtones), is beyond their thinking. Just not interested in examining why decent people would be okay with such a symbol.
The most recent poll I could find (preceding the Charleston church shooting), found "more Americans think that the Confederate flag is a symbol of Southern pride (35%) than think it is a symbol of racism (24%)".
Yet, many are 100% sure they are in the right. The possibility that maybe it's not so cut and dried isn't an option.
Whenever this controversy crops up, we always hear stories from 50-60 years ago. The Jim Crow era. Someone posts lynching pictures from 100 years ago. They have little, if anything, to do with the present.
This Charleston massacre is gut wrenching. I'm saddened and sickened by it. I hurt for those affected.
It's not indicative life in the South, anymore than Sandy Hook is indicative of New England. It's a horrific tragedy. An aberration.
I understand why some view the confederate flag as racist. I also understand why others do not.
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dirtbag
climber
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Yes, there are those who do not view it in a racist context.
Their ignorance is no longer excusable.
It's no different than a swastiska.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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When I was a kid, the best local roller coaster (at Kings Dominion, outside of Richmond, VA) was called the Rebel Yell. I just checked, and it's still there, same name.
Why don't you all do something constructive and tell them change the name; after all, the "rebel yell" was the battle cry of the "traitors" who were fighting for slavery.
How dare the traitors' battle cry grace the name of a fine old roller coaster, which is enjoyed by descendants of slaves as well as the traitors, and probably some damn yankees.
Here's one way to look at it: if you go the Colosseum in Rome, you'll see friendly actors dressed like gladiators wandering around to add some color.
In fact, the gladiators were (mostly) slaves forced to fight to the death for general amusement; it was even worse than what happened in the American South, outside of Tarantino's imagination. But in Rome, it's all considered good fun now and just a celebration of some colorful history.
To some people, the Confederate flag is like that--just an interesting part of a history that no sane person wants to recreate any more than Italians want to re-institute gladiator combat. (Buy lest there be no mistake, I agree that the Confederate flag should have no place as a symbol of any branch of government).
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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I've always been puzzled by this reverence for the Confederacy.
They seceded from the Union in order to try and preserve a barbaric and unsustainable way of life.
They were led by generals like Lee and Jackson who were so deluded that they thought that God was on there side as they blindly persisted against all odds.
Now I don't believe in any God but I wonder what kind of God they had in mind.
And they lost....but only after the needless deaths of 620,000 soldiers, approximently the same number as in All of the other wars in American history combined.
You don't see the Nazi Swastika being honored, but on a relative scale....the damage was nearly equivalent.
And the South continues to lag behind in nearly all measures of what constitutes a healthy modern society.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Couldn't agree more, Jim.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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I saw this building in Wyoming.
I don't think it had anything to do with the Nazis.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
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I've always been puzzled by this reverence for the Confederacy.
They seceded from the Union in order to try and preserve a barbaric and unsustainable way of life.
They were led by generals like Lee and Jackson who were so deluded that they thought that God was on there side as they blindly persisted against all odds.
Now I don't believe in any God but I wonder what kind of God they had in mind.
And they lost....but only after the needless deaths of 620,000 soldiers, approximently the same number as in All of the other wars in American history combined.
You don't see the Nazi Swastika being honored, but on a relative scale....the damage was nearly equivalent.
And the South continues to lag behind in nearly all measures of what constitutes a healthy modern society.
+2 - well put, Jim.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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From CNN:
The poll shows that 57% of Americans see the flag more as a symbol of Southern pride than as a symbol of racism, about the same as in 2000 when 59% said they viewed it as a symbol of pride. Opinions of the flag are sharply divided by race, and among whites, views are split by education.
Among African-Americans, 72% see the Confederate flag as a symbol of racism, just 25% of whites agree. In the South, the racial divide is even broader. While 75% of Southern whites describe the flag as a symbol of pride and 18% call it a symbol of racism, those figures are almost exactly reversed among Southern African-Americans, with just 11% seeing it as a sign of pride and 75% viewing it as a symbol of racism.
Among whites, there's a sharp divide by education, and those with more formal education are less apt to see the flag as a symbol of pride. Among whites with a college degree, 51% say it's a symbol of pride, 41% one of racism. Among those whites who do not have a college degree, 73% say it's a sign of Southern pride, 18% racism.
So you can't equate it to the Nazi flag when a great majority of the people flying it are doing so for Southern Pride, not racism.
But you can't ignore the fact that it was re-popularized in the 60s against civil rights = racism.
I feel it should be removed from all government buildings (other than museums), state flags, license plates, etc. because it does represent racism to a majority of African Americans and many other people. But I feel you should have the freedom to display it on private property if you want to.
I think things have gone to far when they take The Dukes of Hazzard off the air because the General Lee has a flag on it's roof. That's just silly. In that context it's obviously symbolizing the South and the rebel nature not racism. Yes it's a silly lowest common denominator mindless entertainment TV show, but come on. If it offends you don't watch it. The target audience of that show is people who view the flag as a symbol of Southern Pride as seen in the demographics above.
And I think people should be able to fly it if they want to, freedom of expression and all that. But of course you label yourself when you do that.
And the rainbow flag was a Christian flag years ago. The gays co-opted it LOL! So the meaning of flags, etc. does change over time.
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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"Southeren Pride" IS Racism, pretending the words mean something else is a very old trick. . .df
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Personally I dislike all flags. They bring out the latent jingoism in people.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Myopia [mahy-oh-pee-uh]
noun
1. Ophthalmology. a condition of the eye in which parallel rays are focused in front of the retina, objects being seen distinctly only when near to the eye; nearsightedness.
2. lack of foresight or discernment; obtuseness.
3. narrow-mindedness; intolerance.
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dirtbag
climber
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So you can't equate it to the Nazi flag when a great majority of the people flying it are doing so for Southern Pride, not racism.
Nonsense.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sadly, sketch probably thinks he has some kind of coherent point.
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overwatch
climber
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Posts falling off this one right before our eyes.
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