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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab or In What Time Zone Am I?
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decaying fabric of "society" any dayyyyyy.
What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"
Plato, 4th Century BC
We're still here channeling our forebears words.
Susan
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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I am not religious, but I once heard the phrase "God is a libertarian"...Free will.
I think the ruling is good, but don't feel I have a dog in this fight. Live and let live.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Maybe there aren't any atheists in a foxhole, but that's besides the point of the SCOTUS ruling.
The point of those 5 justices is that every person has a right to pursue life, liberty and happiness in almost any way they choose, and happiness to most means loving and marrying the person you want to marry.
All of the blather in the conservative media comes from the Christian gum that is stuck to the shoe of our government, amplified by Hannity & his ilk.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I distinctly recall, while I lay entombed in my last avalanche and without hope of being dug out,
saying "Lord, why did you make me so stoopid?"
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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That's a weird conflation of events, Ron. Unless it's driven by religion &/or homophobia, in which case it's perfectly understandable.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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The point of those 5 justices is that every person has a right to pursue life, liberty and happiness in almost any way they choose, and happiness to most means loving and marrying the person you want to marry.
Correct, Apogee. The SCOTUS isn't an ecclesiastical body. It's charged with determining whether outlawing same-sex marriage violates the Constitution, not whether it violates the commands of God. Christians who understand this distinction should have no trouble with this ruling, any more than we do with, say, no fault divorce. No United States divorce law comports with Christ's teaching on divorce, but I don't see the same reaction to those laws. Ironically, C. S. Lewis already made the distinction you and I make decades ago in Mere Christianity.
Put simply, non-Christians don't care whether any legally permitted action does or does not constitute obedience to God. I would urge my fellow Christians to carry out the Great Commission and seek to make disciples, not mete out condemnation. After all, we - of all people - should know that all have sinned and fall short of the glorty of God.
John
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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What's this gay marriage thing?
The SCOTUS has just ruled there is just marriage.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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John, that's a great viewpoint. A slight edit to your comment:
"It's charged with determining whether outlawing same-sex marriage violates the Constitution, not whether it violates the commands of God. Religious Republicans who understand this distinction should have no trouble with this ruling, any more than we do with, say, no fault divorce."
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apogee, I wish the angst were confined to religious Republicans. Much of the hysteria I've heard comes from Christians who are Democrats or independents as well.
John
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Much of the hysteria I've heard comes from Christians who are Democrats or independents as well.
WTF ????? Hysteria from the Dems?
Please specify which Dems and Independents, I haven't heard a peep out of them, only Conservative Repubs seem to have a problem with the ruling
and the Republicans hope to run on religious liberty as a wedge issue to bring out the crazies in their base
and the rest of the reasoned population will run from these Repubs that need the crazies for a base.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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John, can you share a link from a liberal/progressive media source (or quote from a liberal/progressive politician) that contains a similar level of hysteria that is coming from Hannity & Cruz? Haven't seen anything yet, but I'm open to it.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Craig and Apogee, I'm referring to specific individuals I know, not to commentators or politicians. Because these are not public figures, I don't feel free to give their names here.
Of course an active Democrat seeking a nomination would not condemn the ruling, nor would a commentator who seeks an audience of Democrats.
John
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"...an active Republican seeking a nomination would not condemn the ruling, nor would a commentator who seeks an audience of Republicans.
It's supposed to work that way, too, isn't it?
But that hasn't apparently been the case, has it?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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"...an active Republican seeking a nomination would not condemn the ruling, nor would a commentator who seeks an audience of Republicans.
It's supposed to work that way, too, isn't it?
But that hasn't apparently been the case, has it?
Probably not, but as I pointed out much earlier, this ruling is actually helpful for a Republican candidate, because the candidate can now say "It doesn't matter what I think, it's the law of the land now. Next question." Otherwise, they'd be stuck either pandering to the social conservatives to win the primary - at the probable cost of the general election - or failing to pander to the social conservatives, and never get nominated.
John
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"...this ruling is actually helpful for a Republican candidate, because the candidate can now say "It doesn't matter what I think, it's the law of the land now. Next question." "
Think a typical Republican candidate will have the same comment when pressed about the ACA and both of the SCOTUS rulings?
I'm thinkin' not. No, the GOP is just as likely to double-down on it's anti-gay marriage stance as it has been on the ACA. Perhaps moreso, given the massive power of the religious Right.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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this ruling is actually helpful for a Republican candidate, because the candidate can now say "It doesn't matter what I think, it's the law of the land now. Next question."
No one except Rand Paul seems to be taking this route, maybe Trump, I haven't heard his carnival barking on the issue yet.
JE, are these 2 your top choices?
all the other ones are going hysterical about their Religious liberties being taken away. Huckabee, Gindal, Christy, Walker, Jeb, the token black guy, the token women, they all jumped on the Hate Wagon fast.
It's funny how "Religious Liberty" now means my right to discriminate against others I don't like.
It's the New Religious Liberty Christian Hate Group with a license to Hate and discriminate.
Those conservatives really know how to use buzz words,
did Frank Luntz (The Word Smith) come up with this phrase?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Suprema, according to H2 (i.e. the history channel that sometimes deals with history, as opposed to the one dealing with Pawn Stars), the White House was the site of a brothel at least once before.
John
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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It's funny how "Religious Liberty" now means my right to discriminate against others I don't like.
It's the New Religious Liberty Christian Hate Group with a license to Hate and discriminate.
Yeah but it's sad to watch the diplomecy of groups with opposing opinion. i mean it's great when there is mature adults hashing it out over a table of facts. With an itent toward a mature resolution.However there's always the lobbyist, the bystanders who are driven by ajenda without having an ear for truth. The disregerd to truth is neither honorable or dignified. This allows for their intellectualism to make up words, twist truths, and spew forth lies.
And the cherry on the sunday, He has the guall to try and turn the table with his accusations of hate, when all a long it was his hate that brought the issue to the table in the first place. talkin bout callin the kettle black:(
Please ladies and gentlemen to help expidite harmony let us hold tight to the truth.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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In the meantime the tax revenue and jobs for the ancilliary and support businesses are lost to the mob.
Legalize and tax prostitution? That's grand!
Our founding fathers would be so proud to see the US Gov. funded by an America that's only a tourist stop for Disneyland and Vegas while dealing prostitution, drugs, alcohol, and cigaretts.
NOT!
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Gary
Social climber
From A Buick 6
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...the White House was the site of a brothel at least once before.
Now leave JFK out of this.
Or are you talking about Jeff Gannon?
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