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rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Oct 14, 2015 - 01:47pm PT
I have a different interpretation of what most of you seem to think of as a defense of Hildabeast, and complaint of the ongoing email scandal drowning out any substantive policy discussion, by the curmudgeonly commy biotch Sanders. My Take; after people think about it more and more during the slow drip release, they'll not only tire of the incessant concentration on this scandal but also the Hildabeast who is wholly responsible by way of her lifelong pattern of secrecy and criminal activity.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Oct 14, 2015 - 01:49pm PT
If you think Bernie's too old, remember that Hillary will be even older than Bernie is now if she were too complete a 2nd term.
So unless you think Hillary should not run for a second term, any comment that Bernie's too old but Hillary is OK just shows you're not thinking very far ahead.

(But I have to admit, Bernie didn't seem too out of it to me--he did have cup his ear and give a few "speak up sonny's" but otherwise he seemed passably lucid.)


Hillary Clinton on the other hand IMO sure as hell appears ready, willing and able...

She looked and acted like our next President...

If Hillary wins, the saying "Hail to the Chief (s)he's a liar and a thief" will never be more apropos!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 14, 2015 - 01:54pm PT
Hillary's tougher and smarter than old rock climbers babbling nonsense. She'd send you running into your hole like a frightened, baby squirrel, Forum Bully.
Norton

Social climber
Oct 14, 2015 - 02:08pm PT
age does not seem to be an issue for Republican voters

Reagan was 73 when he took office and John McCain would have been 72

both have lived many years after their 8 year would be terms

but back to Trump's business experience of having four bankruptcies .....

and Carl's horrible experience as CEO of HP

and Carson was just an ok doctor, according to Trump

this is a Bernie thread and after the Vermont primary he should fade fast
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Oct 14, 2015 - 02:20pm PT
To me, Hillary would be like Obama. I had high hopes for real change, but once Obama got into office, the big things that really matter got pushed under the rug.

Single-payer health care, why did he not fight hard for that? TPP, it's Obama's baby, a give-away to big business.

Hillary would/will be the same, you watch.

Bernie will never get to the Oval Office alive. And that's not because of his age.

On another note, it was great to see that the Dems had but small differences in what they stated as their values!
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Oct 14, 2015 - 02:25pm PT
I have watched a few Bernie speeches with audience interaction and his wit is sharp as a tack. He pauses before answering to formulate a concise way to say what he wants to say, rather than spouting off empty phrases with a smiley face to buy time.

My vote is still for Bernie because he is focused on what I see as the biggest threat to our democracy- the rise of power of corporations and ultra-rich to the detriment of most individual citizens. Hillary is still part of the problem on that front. If she were to nominate a supreme court justice, the person would be very similar to a Republican nominee on this issue. Sure they would be a strong advocate of women's rights (which is also an important issue with the the present efforts to erode past gains on women's right to choose), but they will sell out our basic government integrity with more votes like Citizen's United. And when we lose the command/control structure of how to have a representative government, the people's views on issues will become irrelevant.

I haven't seen Bernie effectively campaign to minorities, even though his outspoken views on prisons, education, and immigration would be the most supportive of issues of concern to many black and hispanic voters. That seems to be an odd and big hole in his campaign. He is not acting on that.

Man, if Bernie bows out in the end and redirects his base to Hillary, I will be pissed. I changed my registration from Green to Dem because of Bernie, and I will vote Green if Hillary gets the nomination. Yes it would suck if that leads to a Republican president. But it's just a matter of a quick or slow death with the same destination if a Republican or Hillary is elected.

With technology and automation we have today that enable a small number of people to wield a lot of power and defend it, it would be too hard to recover from a world where corporations became more powerful than our government "of the people, by the people, for the people." We are close to that tipping point. When we get there, the typical issues of division between Democrat and Republican will be seen in their proper context as secondary issues. Fix command and control structures, then worry about the decisions you make with it. Our command/control structure of how to govern a country is broken and Bernie is the best chance we have to fix it.

dirtbag

climber
Oct 14, 2015 - 02:33pm PT
For the next several years, a new dem president could only do a limited number things:

-promulgate regulations
-appoint judges
-tinker with foreign policy
-veto

That's about it.

All the lofty policy talk about substantial reform, 1% paying their dues, etc. is pie in the sky until the kooks in congress get voted out. You can thank entrenched gerrymandering for ensuring that won't happen anytime soon
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Oct 14, 2015 - 02:42pm PT
Didn't the Republicans and their blocking have something to do with that???...

You mean during the Obumbalator's first couple of years in office, when he also had both houses of Congress?

Obumblecare passed without a SINGLE Rebumblecon vote. He could just as well have passed single-payer.

Instead, the Obumbalator handed us off to the insurance companies on a silver platter and called it "reform." What a sick joke.

There's a reason why people are flocking to the non-establishment candidates.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Oct 14, 2015 - 02:44pm PT
kooks in congress get voted out

A lot of 'em did after the Obumbalator's first couple of years. More to go, though, that's for sure.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Oct 14, 2015 - 02:49pm PT
I'll say one thing for Bernie; he's truly independent (or as much as you can get). He has also fought for consumer rights (lately against Monsanto) and lost of course.
Norton

Social climber
Oct 14, 2015 - 02:57pm PT
You mean during the Obumbalator's first couple of years in office, when he also had both houses of Congress?

from what date to what date where there 60 Democrat votes in the Senate necessary to override the Republicans during the Obama Administration, Madbolter?

seeing as how it is clear you had this information immediately available prior to posting
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 14, 2015 - 03:31pm PT
Totally asking out of ignorance here...

How long did the Dems have both houses of Congress???...

2010?
John M

climber
Oct 14, 2015 - 03:53pm PT

You mean during the Obumbalator's first couple of years in office, when he also had both houses of Congress?

Obumblecare passed without a SINGLE Rebumblecon vote. He could just as well have passed single-payer.

Instead, the Obumbalator handed us off to the insurance companies on a silver platter and called it "reform." What a sick joke.

There's a reason why people are flocking to the non-establishment candidates.

It was not filibuster proof for two years.

Its a lot more complicated then that because it wasn't cut and dried.

http://sandiegofreepress.org/2012/09/the-myth-of-the-filibuster-proof-democratic-senate/

Kennedy was ill with brain tumors. He missed most of that time.

Franken missed the first six months because his election was contested.

Byrd was ill and missed a lot.

Plus a few other issues were going on. Read the link I gave.

….


Its just not that cut and dried and they did not have a filibuster proof congress for most of that time. There were more filibusters during that two years then any other time in congress.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Oct 14, 2015 - 03:57pm PT
from what date to what date where there 60 Democrat votes in the Senate necessary to override the Republicans during the Obama Administration, Madbolter?

This is a punt on your part. The Obumbalator had a majority of Demoncrats in both houses of Congress for his first two years in office.

Your complaining about the lack of 60 votes is a lame excuse. He clearly didn't need 60 votes to punch through Obumblecare, over the objection of EVERY Rebumblecon! So why do you now say he needed 60 votes to punch through single-payer?

He had two years of the clearest sailing a modern pres is gonna get, and he couldn't get it done. Do NOT blame the Rebumblecons for HIS failures when he had greased skids for his first two years COUPLED with the strongest "honeymoon period" with the voters of anyone in recent history.

The 60-vote crap is just that: Lame excuse.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Oct 14, 2015 - 03:58pm PT
There were more filibusters during that two years then any other time in congress.

Yet, over the objection of EVERY Rebumblecon, he managed to hand us to the insurance companies on a silver platter! Hmmm... YOU do the math.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Oct 14, 2015 - 04:05pm PT
i'm leaning back in my chair,
puttin my boots up.
big stretch of the arms.

i'm right looking forward
to another 4 - 8 years
with a Democrat president.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Oct 14, 2015 - 04:06pm PT
MB1 ... IF, you are saying he did not do this on purpose, but it ended up this way, I agree with you. Negotiation has not been one of Obama's strong points during his years in office. I believe this is due to in part to not a clear enough vision as to how to set about the task of fixing health care, and secondly his debts to financial supporters.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 14, 2015 - 04:11pm PT
nuts, I hope you come to your senses. Voting Green if it's Hillary vs Trump...your "principled" stand would be an egregious error.

madbolter is making thins up. That, coupled with little understanding of the realities of politics, leads to faulty conclusions.

You're smart, Norway Man. And wise.
John M

climber
Oct 14, 2015 - 04:11pm PT
read the article madbolter..

read the article. Its not that hard to understand and remember all the various reasons Obama didn't have complete control except for 72 days..

it wasn't two full years..

no matter how many times the republicans repeat that lie.

Edit: you often complain that others don't take the time to try and fully understand things, well here is your chance. read the article.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Oct 14, 2015 - 04:17pm PT
Did you want Universal Healthcare/single payer??? (or whatever the hell it's called)

I don't, but Dems (particularly on this forum) do. They complain that the Rebumblecons kept it from happening, but the Rebumblecons couldn't keep Obumblecare from happening, which they 100% opposed.

I wanted GENUINE health-care REFORM, which would have addressed the REAL costs of it being unaffordable such as (partial list):

* Outrageous costs of consumables, such as $500 needles

* Absurdly expensive procedures in which layers and layers of "providers" get their "cut" of the process

* Absurdly expensive drugs and doctors being in bed with drug companies to push name-brands when generics are available

* Massive, obscene profits by insurance companies; profits that are now, under Obumblecare absolutely assured by law (they are protected by law against loss, while profits have no cap).

Single-payer would be FAR better than the mess Obumblecare introduced. But the Feds under this administration WOULD NOT do their anti-trust and regulatory job. So, we have ever-consolidating insurance companies and not even a nod in the direction of actually reducing the COSTS of health-care.

This IS thread-drift, but I didn't bring it up. Furthermore, this corporate pandering is EXACTLY what you can expect from the ESTABLISHMENT Hillabeast. And the point for this particular thread is that I was hoping for the Bern because I believed/hoped that he was NOT in bed with the establishment and could actually be a genuinely reform president. See his performance with that handshaking routine, however, I am sickened. The Bern is NOT going to the White House; I am now confident of that.
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