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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 25, 2015 - 08:09am PT
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The pilgrims came to America to escape feudalism , oppression , and the King...We have now come full circle with higher taxes for the working stiff and lower taxes for the wealthy...All under the guise of God and libertarianism...
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 25, 2015 - 08:16am PT
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I think the atheists have the best chance of success in America, since they don't wait for God's magic to save them,
they save themselves.
The pilgrims were from England
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
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May 25, 2015 - 08:24am PT
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Then they had to wait hundreds of years for John Wayne to greet them.
"Hello Pilgrim."
Rewrite your own version of history here, everyone else does.
Hello Craig.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 25, 2015 - 08:34am PT
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Google search says they were English dissenters
Pilgrim Fathers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrim_Fathers
The Pilgrims' leadership came from the religious congregations of Brownist English Dissenters who had fled the volatile political environment in England for the ...
Brownist - English Dissenters - The Mayflower Society - Essequibo
Mayflower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayflower
The Mayflower was the ship that transported English Separatists, known today as the Pilgrims, from Plymouth in England to the New World There were 102 ...
Who Were the Pilgrims? | Plimoth Plantation
http://www.plimoth.org › ... › Homework Help
Plimoth Plantation
This story will help you get to know these people, now known as the Pilgrims, through their first years in New England. England was a Roman Catholic nation ...
Hi Bushman, I know we met before, good to see you here bro.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 25, 2015 - 08:41am PT
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I agree with Craig but love Bushman's approach to history...Then they named a university after John Wayne...Duke University...
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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May 25, 2015 - 09:01am PT
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How about taking advantage of an opportunity to build wealth? My kids have a pretty good summer job-they'll make about $8-9,000 over the summer. Would it be wise to invest in a Roth IRA at the age of 19? They will not need the $5,000-and assuming they get 7% it would be worth around $80,000 when they turn 60.
I was never in their position and I didn't start investing until I was 27. This seems like a good opportunity but it's the old story of a bird in the hand.............
What would you do? What do you wish you had done?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 25, 2015 - 09:43am PT
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Hobo, $8K at 7% they would be closer to $120K, but who's counting? ;-)
Of course, by then they will be totting those figures up in yuans and that
will only buy them a new Fengshui peddle bike.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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May 25, 2015 - 09:48am PT
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I assume the question the OP initially posed matters to him and others here. if it does, then I assume the “mattering” relates to happiness somehow.
There has been a lot of research over the past few decades around happiness.
Adam Smith first predicted that there would be little difference in happiness between those people who had material wealth and those who did not—that an increase in wealth would likely only lead to a temporary increase in happiness. A meta study of 200+ research studies across the globe concerning the relationship between wealth and happiness found a slightly inverse correlation (Journal of Consumer Research). More recent studies have repeatedly indicated that people who go through big changes in their wealth or health revert just about to where they started before their significant experiences (e.g., cancer, winning the lottery, etc.) after a few months’ time.
Beyond the minimal standards of fundamental physical and emotional needs being satisfied (and there is little that we know absolutely what those are for human beings everywhere), little seems to nudge people’s personal level of happiness one way or the other. What psychologists and sociologists tell us is that happiness is an inside job. Counting dollars or automobiles or houses is the same as counting pimples. What the meaning (value, fungibility, usefulness, etc.) of those things are occurs in people’s minds, and the evaluations of those minds are conditioned and reinforced through social constructions.
Philosophers in the 16th and 17th centuries (Hobbes, Hume, and Smith for example) promoted avarice as an innocuous alternative to unending war and civil strife of their times (even though they thought that avarice was uncouth, bourgeois, and ignoble). Odd to think today that Capitalism back then was a message of salvation, a means to secure the peace among men and nationalities against aristocratic adventurism, military expeditions, and religious differences and exuberances. In some sense, the hope of what capitalism can bring continues to be a unifying and calming expression for people in 2nd and 3rd world countries today. It appears only in 1st world countries that wealth has not become evil and wrong. (Oh, well.)
To see where the conflict and disagreements really lie, it could be useful to expose or unearth people’s assumptions about the nature of human beings. What is the nature of men and women? If you believe that people are inherently good, then you will no doubt want liberal doses of freedom so that people can fully actualize themselves and unleash the good. If you think that the nature of men and women are brutish, then you will tend to be conservative, cautious, oriented to protection, a strong rule of law, to protect the good. At the bottom, what are you?
Of course there are other views—for example, transcendent views that don’t pay too much serious attention to any of these arguments because they seem irrelevant to what truly leads to happiness. Maybe happiness is not about “matter” at all.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 25, 2015 - 09:51am PT
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I always liked popping zits and looked at new ones as another oppurtunity...
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 25, 2015 - 10:16am PT
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If you believe that people are inherently good, then you will no doubt want liberal doses of freedom so that people can fully actualize themselves and unleash the good. If you think that the nature of men and women are brutish, then you will tend to be conservative, cautious, oriented to protection, a strong rule of law, to protect the good.
Mike L.
Very well said Mike
This is the root difference between liberals and conservatives
The inherent view of others as good or bad/untrustworthy.
and it's been also divided as Government being good vs. Corporations as being good.
Liberals believe that the Government can be used for good, and those not serving the public interest can be voted out, where as corporations only work for their own greed, and therefore can be not put in charge of making public policy
and do not work in a Democratic manner, they do not provide rights to people, they restrict them.
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Gary
Social climber
From A Buick 6
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May 25, 2015 - 10:31am PT
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You know nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MEH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EDIT: JOHN M pulled his post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a kook!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Missed that post.
What we have is the poverty of wealth. To paraphrase somebody, we place a price on everything, yet know the value of nothing.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 25, 2015 - 10:33am PT
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This is the root difference between liberals and conservatives
The inherent view of others as good or bad/untrustworthy... and it's
been also divided as Government being good vs. Corporations as being good.
Yeah, let's dumb it down to prevent any kind of nuanced discussion and to
further the polarization, eh?
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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May 25, 2015 - 10:40am PT
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CrIg fry, dr F, cragster, whoevr,
Why you always so belligerent and devisve man? Wake up dude, youre the prick. And i am no conservative. Hate to say it, but its people with your attitude on both sides who have brought our nation down.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 25, 2015 - 11:24am PT
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What the hell are talking about
I study this stuff, this is basic political science
This was a discussion, and to tell you the truth, It is You that wrecked it Studly
I wasn't even talking to you, or Cragman.
You guys ruin every good discussion with your insults and hate, it's people like you that ruin it for the rest of us
You don't want to hear what others have to say if you don't agree with it, you want to shut it down.
You guys know nothing about these subjects and tell us that we should shut up so you can live happily in your delusional bubble
I know, all you have to say is "they all do it, they're all the same, they're all bad".
now where did we see that phrase "they're all bad" again??
all you 3 above me^ did was insult me
debate it you have anything, otherwise you are just a bunch of trolling bullies
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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May 25, 2015 - 11:43am PT
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Good thoughts Mike
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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May 25, 2015 - 11:48am PT
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inherent view of others
Right - it's always those others that need to be called idiots and bullies, because we're the good people.
We all have the same inherent arrogance of our human belief creation processes, but that doesn't mean we're bad.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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May 25, 2015 - 01:25pm PT
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debate it you have anything, otherwise you are just a bunch of trolling bullies
Oh whaa, whaaa, whaaa.
As "Dr. F," you were one of the worst offenders. Now you're resurrected as a (slightly) "kinder, gentler" Dr.F, but nothing has really changed.
BTW, I've asked you repeatedly, and I'll ask again: What's the "Dr." all about? Do you have a doctorate of any kind? If so, in what field?
You don't have to answer if you find the question too provocative and "threatening" to your "sensibilities." I wouldn't want to "offend" in the slightest.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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May 25, 2015 - 01:46pm PT
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Philosophers in the 16th and 17th centuries (Hobbes, Hume, and Smith for example) promoted avarice as an innocuous alternative to unending war and civil strife of their times (even though they thought that avarice was uncouth, bourgeois, and ignoble). Odd to think today that Capitalism back then was a message of salvation
Odder still to see that you equate "capitalism" with "avarice". Doing so is at least a category error.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 25, 2015 - 02:14pm PT
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You don't have to answer if you find the question too provocative and "threatening" to your "sensibilities." I wouldn't want to "offend" in the slightest. I answer only provocative and threatening questions that are posted
Most here just add snide remarks or insults rather than post any content
Can any of you debate or discuss without getting hysterical?????
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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May 25, 2015 - 02:40pm PT
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Don't remember who this quote was from:
The problem with capitalism is capitalists.
The problem with socialism is socialism.
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