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jstan
climber
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Apr 29, 2015 - 04:12pm PT
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Lovely. One step closer toward mandatory euthanasia because well, you know.....there really are too many "useless eaters" on the planet.
Birth is also a very critical step closer to mandated euthanasia. I am glad NWO2 is a supporter of abortion. If you really are serious about avoiding mandated euthanasia, abortion is the most reliable way to go.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 29, 2015 - 04:36pm PT
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If you really are serious about avoiding mandated euthanasia, abortion is the most reliable way to go.
Maybe stating the obvious, but if you're reading this, isn't it a little too late for that option?
While we all strive to live as long as we can, and very few people have what it takes to pull the plug on themselves, many will see their families suffer, both emotionally and economically, as they become ill and are in such pain that it requires expensive medical treatments to keep their ticker ticking.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 29, 2015 - 04:58pm PT
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we have actually seen what he fears and says occur on a huge scale in real life already Our society has seen lots of truly grotesque fears. Some we manage well as a society, some not so well.
We've seen the horror of Nazi death camps, ISIS executions and Boko Haram child kidnappings. It took the US over 2 years to join WWII and then only because of Pearl Harbor. We're a little slow on the uptake.
We have the horror the last few weeks (particularly if you are black and living in a poor neighborhood) of cops killing innocent people.
If we had recognized that horror earlier many of them might still be alive. We're a little slow on the uptake when it's someone else who's suffering or dying.
Knowing that something is beneficial for many situations (police protection, assisted medically supervised death) but can also be abused doesn't stop us from trying to meet peoples needs for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. We improve policing (hopefully), control and circumscribe medical care. It's time to expand the notion of medical care to humane end of life. After all the Supreme Court ruled some time ago we can't execute a killer "inhumanely".
Why are we prevented from ending our own lives "humanely"?
Who doesn't remember the opening scene of the American House of Cards?
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 29, 2015 - 05:49pm PT
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Well, whatever. I'm far less concerned with hypothetical, what if euthanasia conspiracy scenarios than real-life decisions about dying humanely and with dignity, decisions nearly all of us will have to face one way or another.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Apr 29, 2015 - 09:21pm PT
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An old woman is on her deathbed. Her doctor is feeding her through a feeding tube. Her Priest enters the room. "What are you doing? Can't you see she is dying?"
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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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Apr 30, 2015 - 06:17am PT
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the only reason that
i don't die is
so that i can continue
my quest upon death.
i want to see how
close i can get to it
without entering her.
like a game of chicken.
i race up to the edge
only to realize that
the 'edge' is actually
the entire unbroken plane
of this existence.
we could employ infinite
math here, like the integral
of life, as it approaches death.
the hymen-type structure
between her and i
is not a substantial barrier,
though i am too weak to
penetrate it.
death is easy,
like a breath.
life is asphyxiation.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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I’ve learned a lot about an advanced health care directive in the last 24 hours.
My mother, age 86, had a brain hemorrhage about 8 weeks ago. She was hospitalized. She was unresponsive other than flailing her arms about in an agitated state trying to shake off the various IVs and other attachments. Never opened her eyes. The Dr. told my stepdad and I there were two options, nursing care with a feeding tube etc., or hospice care; no food or liquids, comfort drugs, she passes quietly in a week or so. We began, according to her directive, to make the arrangements for hospice. But unexpectedly she came out of it and began accepting food, so the hospice care was not an ethical option.
She has an advanced care directive not unlike most. At the end of life there are to be no extra measures taken to extend that natural life such as feeding tubes and all that stuff. She just wants to die peacefully.
We had her placed in a specialized care place where they put her on a program of speech, coordination and physical therapies. Over the last 6 weeks she has gone from not speaking, barely eating and not recognizing family to eating on her own, having simple conversations, knowing who we are, walking with assistance etc.
We had dinner with her last night. She seems improved every time I see her. But at around 2AM the nurse on duty found her struggling to breathe. She panicked and called 911. Mom’s care directive specifically stated not to hospitalize her in this situation. The care facility does hospice and should have kept her there.
My stepdad and I got to the hospital this morning. We walked into her room. I won’t describe the horror of it. Let’s just say they were making extraordinary effort to keep her alive. No one had read the directive (or the official CA document which accompanies it in her file.) She was being tortured. This despite the fact this was the same hospital as first time around so they had her directive and supporting documents in her file, and the fact that I called and alerted them to this two hours before we could arrive.
We got them straight on her wishes supported by the documents, now she has pneumonia and is failing without life saving measures. Morphine drip and a day or two. Comfortable in peace, not desperately gasping for air with tubes up her nose and IVs and various other stuff attached or plugged into her.
My point? If you or yours ends up in a situation anything like this make them post the order on the door to their/your room. Wear a bracelet or neck chain alerting them to your wishes. When the crap hits the fan in the middle of the night no one is going to check your paperwork. Your directive will not be worth the paper it’s written on.
Best not plug this thread up with condolences and that sort of thing. This has been some time coming, and our family just wants her passing – as we want our own – to be respected as the natural event which it is. If there’s anything I’m grieving it’s not her death, but rather the events of the last 15 hours which began when, during her last salient moments she was ripped out of her bed in the middle of the night and sped by ambulance to a hospital ER.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab or In What Time Zone Am I?
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^^^^ Take care.
Susan
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perswig
climber
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Peace, Kris.
Anyone here see the movie Mar Adentro?
Dale
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Thanks, one and all, for the recognition of this interview of me by Patt Morrison. You don't always get this with the press, but she essentially quoted me verbatim.
My agenda is to get the discussion going among people. This seems like a straightforward issue, but it turns out to be quite complex.
I believe that Physician Assisted Suicide will become available in Ca within the next few years. I also believe that legislative action is MUCH better than Initiative, because the first is easy to fix, if there are any problems, but the Initiative can be very difficult.
My reservations revolve around three issues: How it is marketed, the process that is involved, and what has actually happened in Oregon, the only place where the US has a significantly long history of availability (17 years).
The group that is leading the charge is Compassion and Choices (used to be called the "Hemlock Society"). It was created in 2004, but was preceded by
a number of organizations.
[quote]On January 17, 1938, The New York Times reported the formation of a national euthanasia organization, which became known as the Euthanasia Society of America and, within a year, that group was ready to offer a proposal to legalize “the termination of human life by painless means for the purpose of avoiding unnecessary suffering.” Initially, the measure was to be limited to “voluntary” euthanasia, but the society “hoped eventually to legalize the putting to death of non-volunteers beyond the help of medical science.”(7) Dr. Foster Kennedy, the Society’s new president urged “legalizing of euthanasia primarily in cases of born defectives who are doomed to remain defective, rather than for normal persons who have become miserable through incurable illness.”
http://www.patientsrightscouncil.org/site/rpt2005-part1/[/quote]
This really didn't go anywhere, because most people found the message quite unsavory. So time to bring in the marketers.
For example, "Physician Assisted Suicide" (PAS) doesn't poll nearly as well as "Physician Aid in Dying"---so guess what all the bills read?
As a physician, I've always thought that one of the biggest problems in medical care, is the terrible communication that goes on. For years, we wouldn't tell people they were dying. I think that is wrong. I believe that one has to be totally clear and transparent about end of life issues.
This "relabeling" to make things SOUND better feels wrong to me. I was on a panel last wed nite with the California Campaign Director of Compassion and Choices. She stated that PAS is NOT suicide, by their thinking. The person is already dying of something, so they cannot commit suicide.
Ok, here is the slippery slope: If they can't commit suicide for that reason, they why can they not be murdered by a lethal injection given by someone else? It will take the wider-spread use of PAS, and time, but you will see the argument made.
I am not necessarily saying that such a decision by society is overtly wrong (although probably so), but I am very concerned about moving down that road without CAREFUL consideration.
(to be cont)
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Kris, I am very sorry to hear of the experience you are undergoing. As you understand, we can do much better.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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She stated that PAS is NOT suicide, by their thinking. The person is already dying of something, so they cannot commit suicide.
We are all gonna die of something. And that day comes through natural order. For ANY reason other than that, if someone decides to put a stop to their pumping heart IT IS COMMITING SUICIDE! If someone is to assist in this action they should be considered as no less than a KILLER. As far as what's going on in Oregon those doctors should be on trial for MURDER since it premeditated. They've certainly commited MURDER to their Hippocrate Oath!!
How ever you professional intellectuals want to blur the language to get your participants and allow yourselfs sleep at night, so be it. I imagine most if not all your victims/patients will be the ones without a bottomless insurance policies to keep the machine rolling.
But let's stop foolin ourselves hospitals have already for years been committing professionally assisted suicide/murder. For example, take Blitzo's case(a friend to many here). When his Medicare ran out for treating his bone cancer they pulled him out of his room and just parked him in a wheelchair in the hall. Then the "physicians" proceed in consoling him into idea that he would no longer Live the physical type of life he was used to and would spend his remaining days constricted to a wheelchair. Well, under continuos morphine drip they had him on it took no time before they had him signing his LIFE away and dropped him off in a hospice with enough morphine to kill an elephant. He was MURDERED in a week!
While your out there changing language, how about finding some new terms for "Doctor" and "Physician". These have to long been associated with "Caregiver" and have become misnohmers. Maybe something like "Cell-Rejuvinating Business person" or "Cell-Extinquishing Business person"
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