Freezing Forum Topics That Degenerate into Personal Attacks

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Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 7, 2015 - 04:47pm PT
Dear Forum,

We have added a new administrative policy: freezing threads that have devolved mostly into personal attacks. These threads will exist on the site so that earlier posts can live on. But nobody will be able to post to a frozen thread in the future.

Why are we doing this?

We’ve noticed most of the personal attacks on the site come from just a handful of people in just a handful of threads. Most often, these are threads which were off-topic to begin with, but which over time deteriorated into largely political debates. Once politicized, these threads then seem to degrade further into personal attacks. We simply don't want to host these kinds of discussions (despite their popularity), and thus we'd ask you to: a) please refrain from starting politically oriented threads on SuperTopo, and b) don't be surprised if a thread which has become infected with personal attacks is locked to prevent further discussion. While occasionally it is appropriate to delete posters and threads, we prefer not to do this. Hopefully freezing threads that devolve into personal attacks will help with an ongoing effort to keep the forum a friendly and informative resource for climbers of all ages and interests.

Thank you,

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Apr 7, 2015 - 04:55pm PT
Thank You for the Heads Up I hope that those on thin Ice know [Click to View YouTube Video]Thank You for an adult solution to the second puberty that seems to take hold of the 'Polotard' set.
Political derisiveness has no place here, You are so right! Thanx again.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Trad climber
Will know soon
Apr 7, 2015 - 05:01pm PT
Sounds like a good idea, Chris. Other forums would do well to follow your example.

If politics are important in your life then get involved personally and make a difference in this world. Develope a plan, get out there and do something to help the planet and it's inhabitants.

Personal attacks rip at the heart of community and campfire and should be avoided at all cost. imho of course.

Cheers, lynnie
overwatch

climber
Apr 7, 2015 - 05:27pm PT
thank you, it is about time.
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Apr 7, 2015 - 05:35pm PT
Chris, you're a socialist libertarian jerk face and you have bad personal opinions!

Let's see if this freezing thing works.


(PS great idea and thanks for hosting this site, it's a great resource)
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Apr 7, 2015 - 06:03pm PT
"We’ve noticed most of the personal attacks on the site come from just a handful of people"

I don't get it.

Chris - why don't you just BAN the handful??
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Apr 7, 2015 - 06:04pm PT
Good policy. Ad hominen attacks are the weapon of people who don't have reasonable, factual, evidentiary arguments to offer.
MisterE

Gym climber
Bishop, CA
Apr 7, 2015 - 06:17pm PT
Great policy choice, Gentlemen!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Apr 7, 2015 - 06:21pm PT
Support this 100%. Begs this question for me, though:

"why don't you just BAN the handful??"

Edit:
Well, I'll be damned. The infamous 'Republicans' thread is locked tighter than a drum. Wow!
labrat

Trad climber
Erik O. Auburn, CA
Apr 7, 2015 - 06:22pm PT
Yay! Thank you ST gods!
DanaB

climber
CT
Apr 7, 2015 - 06:30pm PT
Good policy. Ad hominen attacks are the weapon of people who don't have reasonable, factual, evidentiary arguments to offer.

Yes indeed, thank you. Probably one of the primary reasons why many people have left the ST forum.
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Apr 7, 2015 - 06:32pm PT
why don't you just BAN the handful??

They come back. Banning doesn't work
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Apr 7, 2015 - 06:34pm PT
hey there say, chris... sounds good...

i have seen this used at one of the EPILEPSY WEBSITES... (though on rare occasions) (however, that may have changed, since the site was upgraded, and i don't get over, there, and perhaps they have had to use it more, i don't know)...

*THEY preferred, too, to LEAVE the thread, as, there was good info, in them to help others, but they wanted any 'rot' to be stopped, that was 'polluting' it/them, due to 'over-critical' derogatory attacks on the way that some folks handle seizures, etc,

(though they/epilepsy awareness websites, want things to get better, in the schools and business world, etc, they DO NOT want those that are seeking change, to make it turn into situations of ugly opinions, etc, where NO ONE will give 'those wanting betterment' a chance to plead their cause)...

*they, too, were trying NOT to ban folks, as, many times folks were just frustrated as to ONE specific issue, but, they still wanted to share, and get support for their children, families, or learn what their legal help was, etc, by asking for information from others on the forum, etc...

ps:
not sure, but when i was there more often, i think they only considered banning one person, as, the person showed up in all the threads and had no sound reasoning as to 'tearing everyones':
solutions, etc, or medication and doctors, treatment, etc, APART... :(

though, obviously, there were VERY MANY serious accounts of wrong situations that parents HAD run into, as to medication and treatment for their kids...
or themselves, :(
edit--they just want good solid, stable ways, as those are what will really get the 'foot in the door' to real changes...

thank you chris, for keeping your supertopo, here for us,
through all these years...

godbless, and wishing you more good years... especially as many new climbers grow, and need these experienced folks to STILL guide the
way into more 'new ground' upwards, and more stories of experience to
either share for NEEDS or just plain ol' fun...
F10

Trad climber
Bishop
Apr 7, 2015 - 07:05pm PT
I prefer climbing related topics, that's why I'm here.

Good move
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 7, 2015 - 07:07pm PT
Good on you Cmac!

I remember when the front page topics stood still for days or weeks..

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Apr 7, 2015 - 07:09pm PT
Looks like the posters need to encrypt personal attacks to keep CMac out of the loop...? What happened to all the fun in the world...
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Apr 7, 2015 - 07:11pm PT
I went to post about a new study of Canadian glacier retreat and the future projections to the Climate Thread and found that the "Reply" button no longer existed.

Too bad. It is a paper, in Nature Geoscience, which addresses the central issues raised in that thread, and in a way pertinent to climbing.

While I have believed that I largely refrained from using personal attacks in my posts to that thread, I understand that some who objected to my posts might have thought otherwise. Certainly I had been subject to personal attacks there, but it was my choice to continue to post information and engage in discussions taking the high road.

Shutting down a topic provides a means for some who object to a particular thread to stop discussions about the thread, if the "degenerating to personal attack" criteria is applied generally. This has the effect of stifling the discussion of topics which might be difficult, but important, for the members of this forum to engage in.
MisterE

Gym climber
Bishop, CA
Apr 7, 2015 - 07:17pm PT
Upon further consideration, what I like about this move is that it is not a cave-in to the tab-afficianados, nor is it a heavy-handed moderation of the forum.

It is simply a solution to a few people that just don't get it.
WBraun

climber
Apr 7, 2015 - 07:23pm PT
I 100% agree with Ed H and Moosedrool.

Also to shutdown the climate thread is a big big big mistake.

You have some real quality posters in there keep the subject matter up to date that is very difficult to get in that form.


Just sterilize and neuter your forum so that it remains white washed, watered down until you have nothing left but glazed eyed climbing zombies.

Oh oh .... I'm toast now .....
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Apr 7, 2015 - 07:26pm PT
I can't believe I am saying this (and I hope this comment doesn't get this thread locked down), but I agree completely with what Werner said.

Ed H said it better though :)
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Apr 7, 2015 - 07:27pm PT
glazed eyed zombies...? That has personal attack written all over it...
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Apr 7, 2015 - 07:27pm PT
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Apr 7, 2015 - 07:29pm PT
Thanks. It's a more mature response than mine to the "Obama is a little girl who soiled his panties" / Pelosi sex change posts, and I'm grateful that you're up to it.
guido

Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
Apr 7, 2015 - 07:31pm PT
Ditto with Werner and Ed-What a shame to shut down the Climate Thread, Big Big mistake there Mr ST.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Apr 7, 2015 - 07:45pm PT
Chris: As we all know: it's your forum. I think freezing threads is much more reasonable than deleting them.

Sorry about all the whiners here.

Carry on.
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Apr 7, 2015 - 07:48pm PT
White people problems


kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Apr 7, 2015 - 07:52pm PT
I appreciate Supertopo, but to start locking down threads is a good way to kill the forum.

Ed and Werner nailed it.

Free the Climate Change Thread!
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Apr 7, 2015 - 07:57pm PT
"We simply don't want to host these kinds of discussions (despite their popularity), and thus we'd ask you to: a) please refrain from starting politically oriented threads on SuperTopo..." -CMac

I gather you probably feel the same way regarding the OT science, religion and belief-oriented threads as well.
jstan

climber
Apr 7, 2015 - 08:03pm PT
Actually this is getting pretty close to comedy.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Apr 7, 2015 - 08:04pm PT
I agree with Ed that this policy will enable just the tw#ts we hope to quash. This policy is sort of like the concept general public yielding of personal liberties in fear of terrorism.

Don't tread on me either.

Jorroh

climber
Apr 7, 2015 - 08:04pm PT
Although the climate change thread was polluted by the ill-informed rantings of a few, it also contained a lot of posts from a few guys like Chiloe who work in the field and provided (what I consider at least) to be really valuable insider updates on the state of play....not something us average Joe's usually have access to.

It was easy enough to ignore the blowhards, but rather than freezing the thread it would have been much better to give us an ignore this user option.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Apr 7, 2015 - 08:09pm PT
I think you have an alarmist perspective,

This thread is degenerating. Freeze it now!
jstan

climber
Apr 7, 2015 - 08:12pm PT
No need to freeze it. Chris has had a talk with The Moose.

Actually I have constructed a test that will eliminate from the site those who are not real climbers. Have our computers fitted with a device to detect where we are looking, and ban everyone who looks at the wrong part of this photo.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Apr 7, 2015 - 08:15pm PT
There's a real degenerate...
Roger Brown

climber
Oceano, California
Apr 7, 2015 - 08:19pm PT
Chris,
I agree with your policy,
Thank you.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Apr 7, 2015 - 08:22pm PT
Once upon a time there was a guy that was tired of sh#t, so he had an elective surgery to sew his as#@&%e up tight. End of problem.
rlf

Trad climber
Josh, CA
Apr 7, 2015 - 08:23pm PT
Well JSTAN, that pretty much puts me on the sidelines.

Thanks Chris!
crankster

Trad climber
Apr 7, 2015 - 08:30pm PT
While you're at it, freeze the gun debate thread, ASAP. Worst one here, bar none. Ammo this, ammo that, give me a break.
Mike Bolte

Trad climber
Planet Earth
Apr 7, 2015 - 08:35pm PT
I'm on board Chris!

Ed - I disagree with you. It was painful watching you and Chiloe get sucked into that black hole of willful ignorance. Your life got better.
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Apr 7, 2015 - 08:43pm PT
Finally a good idea. A gentleman and a climber!

Moose

Looked like a chick to me:-)
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Apr 7, 2015 - 08:58pm PT
Interesting, the Climate Change thread at long last became civil (after months of having to slog through some of the forum's most egregious posters, who finally got banned), and for some reason it freezes?

Question: How will you tell when threads degrade into war mongering? I suppose you'll have to carefully monitor all the hot threads to see which ones are poppin' and spittin'.

What next, the Arc on the Dark Side of the Moon will soon be frozen too I guess, as well as Largo's Mind?


A while ago, I suggested Yellow Cards for the folks who slung doo-doo. But I suppose it's easier to shut down [ot] topics that bring out some emotion. Now somebody will have to start chopping bolts, or put up All Grown Up Again #2 to get some spit and vigor back into this place.

... please refrain from starting politically oriented threads on SuperTopo ...

Just in time too--the Election Season is opening!

Carry on folks.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Apr 7, 2015 - 09:07pm PT
Bravo. A good move.
MisterE

Gym climber
Bishop, CA
Apr 7, 2015 - 09:13pm PT
I deleted stuff - I am a simple man that is cornfused by the vastness of it all.

Erik
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Apr 7, 2015 - 09:14pm PT

If this idea of censorship were a tin can, I'd shoot it.
phylp

Trad climber
Upland, CA
Apr 7, 2015 - 09:19pm PT
Thanks Chris.
It's a good thing to try.
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Apr 7, 2015 - 09:47pm PT
Freeze away, most of us will be happy to see the OT threads drop off the front page.

Anything in them can be found on google anyway, they were mostly copy+paste wars.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Apr 7, 2015 - 10:03pm PT
If you want to kill it, you can kill it right now.

Just start spewing personal attacks on it, and it'll freeze.

You've got the Heckler's Veto now.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Apr 7, 2015 - 10:09pm PT
... they were mostly copy+paste wars.

I'm not so sure about that.


This is the type of information that was shared on the Climate Change thread, recently posted:

California's conifer forests have a completely different fire ecology. Natural frequencies of occurrence of fires are much much shorter than in chaparral, on the order of 15-25 years for the majority of the state (maybe not including the wet northwestern part). But these formerly frequent fires were almost entirely ground fires, not stand-replacing. The whole forest is still standing there, with nearly the entire canopy still growing; only the shrub and ground layer, and litter, was consumed. So the ecosystem remains largely the same, except for a few fire-follower plants and birds. If the vast area of conifer-shrubland, and maybe even a lot of the lower west slopes were to become warmer and drier such that there is type-conversion to chaparral, you'd still have the higher frequency of natural ignitions, combined with vegetation cover that produces completely stand-replacing fires. That would be a really, really gigantic change for the state's lower montane and foothill ecosystems, likewise for the already stressed watersheds.

Who knows what other regional changes would occur, for example in the Great Basin.
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Apr 7, 2015 - 10:18pm PT
Looked like a chick to me:-)

What did YOU see in that photo?

Bye, bye!

Eggsackly,

nyuk nyuk..
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Apr 7, 2015 - 10:28pm PT
hey there say, Ed... hmmm, as to you wanting to share some information, as to the climate thread, is it a good or bad idea, to start a thread that contains LINKS to climate-changing information... ?

edit:
hmm, or could you add it onto, another thread, that has other links, that share about anything similar?? (just curious) ...

would that be something that would help, and yet, not have the same trouble that the other thread had (i don't know, as, i did not post there? unless i visited it once?)...


not 'restarting' any trouble, but, just starting a links type thread?
many folks DO enjoy seeing your info... so i was curious...
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Apr 7, 2015 - 10:34pm PT
This is the type of information that was shared on the Climate Change thread, recently posted:

Wait, were you trying to prove my point? California fire ecology can be found on other sites that are not intended to be sources of climbing information. Debates on forums are mostly people looking stuff up online that fits their view and then posting it. That's why debating is more fun/scary in real life.

I love discussing OT as much as the next person, and my undergraduate and graduate degrees are both in ecology, but that thread dropping down will open up front page real estate to something that this site is intended for.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 7, 2015 - 10:48pm PT
DanaB
Yay! Thank you ST gods!

rottingjohnny
glazed eyed zombies...? That has personal attack written all over it...

Anita514
White people problems

Proscribe theology.
Proscribe mentioning drugs and their effects.
Proscribe racism.

MFM in a decision-making moment.
"The climate on ST is changing."

"No, you're just becoming an old hidebound fart, Mouse."

"Namaste, self, namaste."

I'll be watching you three and myself...

God be with ST and on the side of moderation in all things...











































































excepting BOOBS!

And Locker. Never change, Locker. Please. :0)

pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Apr 7, 2015 - 10:49pm PT
Attempting to control the environment that is supertopo destroys it's essence.

Everything that lives...
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Apr 7, 2015 - 10:50pm PT
rwedgee

Ice climber
CA
Apr 7, 2015 - 10:52pm PT
Dump the political threads or rename the site Politopo and quit reviewing shoes and other climbing related products nobody left here buys that shite.
jonnyrig

climber
Apr 7, 2015 - 11:48pm PT
Maybe you could freeze users who contribute no climbing content.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Apr 8, 2015 - 12:07am PT
All forms of free exchange of information and search for truthful sources are experiencing concerted well-funded attacks from establishment sources. It is clear that the major media outlets can no longer be trusted and perhaps never could. Supertopo regulars should recognize that this forum has become an important source of knowledgeable news and information exchange and is thus a target for such attacks. We don't necessarily know all the challenges that Chris has to handle in this regard. Some of those challenges are no doubt caused by immature and irrational contributors. Others may be intelligently orchestrated attacks masquerading as such. Those of us who care need to protect Chris and his forum by whatever civilized means we can influence.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Apr 8, 2015 - 12:12am PT
Debates on forums are mostly people looking stuff up online that fits their view and then posting it.

Did you look that up, or are you posting something original?



And don't kid yourself. The reason this forum is interesting is because it hosts more than pure climbing content--otherwise just go hang out on Mountain Project.


Also, how many "political" threads are there, compared to all the non-climbing threads.

But I get it--CMac doesn't want political threads here anymore. I say too bad. For me it has been the variety of the topics and the posters that made this place interesting.



Tom, that's an interesting take. It has long been my view that certain avatars are exactly what you outline. However, I am unsure how ill-tempered posts pose any danger to the forum.

While I understand the desire to limit polarizing topics, the daily draw for me has been the zany and surprising things that you could encounter when you open up the front page. Keep things on the straight and narrow, I suppose we'll see where we go.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Apr 8, 2015 - 12:17am PT
Maybe you could freeze users who contribute no climbing content.

^^^ ++gazillion million.

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Apr 8, 2015 - 12:26am PT
Maybe you could freeze users who contribute no climbing content.


OK, OK!!


I was laybacking this scary and run-out seam that turned into fingerstacks after a spell of RPs and tubers. My opposing TCUs had only two lobes touching rock, and my partner kept yelling Slack on Black, JACK!


Don't taze me bro!
Fish Finder

climber
Apr 8, 2015 - 12:39am PT
Damn

you cant catch a break either way

Great Idea

dont know why a handful of the good people are whining about stopping the handful of bad seeds

A frozen thread that burns in your belly can be re-started until its frozen again. (they whined, when it was deleted and now they are whining that you are saving them by freezing)

Stopping the pattern of ranting on (Copy Paste)of issues that the administration does not feel represents their forum ,well, just seems like a smart move

people who are eliminated can come back with another avatar


Patterns will be noticed

we will finally understand how stupid it is to get upset or hateful over black type on white screens

I commend you for how you handle this entire group of denizens in YOUR WEBSITE**

I enjoy the Gear Reviews Please dont freeze those

Thanks ,Chris

Best,Gregg

EDIT: Thank you for creating this community!
Fish Finder

climber
Apr 8, 2015 - 01:00am PT
" all we are saying is ....................give peace a chance"




you better check yourself
before you wreck yourself


its amazing how entitled people are here
they act as if its their forum and should be run the way they want it to

Urban dictionary

forum
Best described as a torrent of little children running around in a minefield (users), some armed with weapons (moderators), forums are the flagship of internet discussion, spam, and flame wars.
Smaller forums tend to be more habitable, but the larger ones have many distinct and similar features. For example, within approximately seven seconds of the creation of a topic, you will have at least one reply, garunteed. Large forums also tend to spawn makeshift caste systems within themselves, and you're automatically a malefactor in the forum until you have a 4-digit post count.
A forum can sometimes be helpful, but normally they become a time consuming and frustrating thing if you pay too much attention to them.


hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Apr 8, 2015 - 03:17am PT

Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby

A Georgia Folktale

retold by

S.E. Schlosser

Well now, that rascal Brer Fox hated Brer Rabbit on account of he was always cutting capers and bossing everyone around. So Brer Fox decided to capture and kill Brer Rabbit if it was the last thing he ever did! He thought and he thought until he came up with a plan. He would make a tar baby! Brer Fox went and got some tar and he mixed it with some turpentine and he sculpted it into the figure of a cute little baby. Then he stuck a hat on the Tar Baby and sat her in the middle of the road.

Brer Fox hid himself in the bushes near the road and he waited and waited for Brer Rabbit to come along. At long last, he heard someone whistling and chuckling to himself, and he knew that Brer Rabbit was coming up over the hill. As he reached the top, Brer Rabbit spotted the cute little Tar Baby. Brer Rabbit was surprised. He stopped and stared at this strange creature. He had never seen anything like it before!

"Good Morning," said Brer Rabbit, doffing his hat. "Nice weather we're having."

The Tar Baby said nothing. Brer Fox laid low and grinned an evil grin.

Brer Rabbit tried again. "And how are you feeling this fine day?"

The Tar Baby, she said nothing. Brer Fox grinned an evil grin and lay low in the bushes.

Brer Rabbit frowned. This strange creature was not very polite. It was beginning to make him mad.

"Ahem!" said Brer Rabbit loudly, wondering if the Tar Baby were deaf. "I said 'HOW ARE YOU THIS MORNING?"

The Tar Baby said nothing. Brer Fox curled up into a ball to hide his laugher. His plan was working perfectly!

"Are you deaf or just rude?" demanded Brer Rabbit, losing his temper. "I can't stand folks that are stuck up! You take off that hat and say 'Howdy-do' or I'm going to give you such a lickin'!"

The Tar Baby just sat in the middle of the road looking as cute as a button and saying nothing at all. Brer Fox rolled over and over under the bushes, fit to bust because he didn't dare laugh out loud.

"I'll learn ya!" Brer Rabbit yelled. He took a swing at the cute little Tar Baby and his paw got stuck in the tar.

"Lemme go or I'll hit you again," shouted Brer Rabbit. The Tar Baby, she said nothing.

"Fine! Be that way," said Brer Rabbit, swinging at the Tar Baby with his free paw. Now both his paws were stuck in the tar, and Brer Fox danced with glee behind the bushes.

"I'm gonna kick the stuffin' out of you," Brer Rabbit said and pounced on the Tar Baby with both feet. They sank deep into the Tar Baby. Brer Rabbit was so furious he head-butted the cute little creature until he was completely covered with tar and unable to move.

Brer Fox leapt out of the bushes and strolled over to Brer Rabbit. "Well, well, what have we here?" he asked, grinning an evil grin.

Brer Rabbit gulped. He was stuck fast. He did some fast thinking while Brer Fox rolled about on the road, laughing himself sick over Brer Rabbit's dilemma.

"I've got you this time, Brer Rabbit," said Brer Fox, jumping up and shaking off the dust. "You've sassed me for the very last time. Now I wonder what I should do with you?"

Brer Rabbit's eyes got very large. "Oh please Brer Fox, whatever you do, please don't throw me into the briar patch."

"Maybe I should roast you over a fire and eat you," mused Brer Fox. "No, that's too much trouble. Maybe I'll hang you instead."

"Roast me! Hang me! Do whatever you please," said Brer Rabbit. "Only please, Brer Fox, please don't throw me into the briar patch."

"If I'm going to hang you, I'll need some string," said Brer Fox. "And I don't have any string handy. But the stream's not far away, so maybe I'll drown you instead."

"Drown me! Roast me! Hang me! Do whatever you please," said Brer Rabbit. "Only please, Brer Fox, please don't throw me into the briar patch."

"The briar patch, eh?" said Brer Fox. "What a wonderful idea! You'll be torn into little pieces!"

Grabbing up the tar-covered rabbit, Brer Fox swung him around and around and then flung him head over heels into the briar patch. Brer Rabbit let out such a scream as he fell that all of Brer Fox's fur stood straight up. Brer Rabbit fell into the briar bushes with a crash and a mighty thump. Then there was silence.

Brer Fox cocked one ear toward the briar patch, listening for whimpers of pain. But he heard nothing. Brer Fox cocked the other ear toward the briar patch, listening for Brer Rabbit's death rattle. He heard nothing.

Then Brer Fox heard someone calling his name. He turned around and looked up the hill. Brer Rabbit was sitting on a log combing the tar out of his fur with a wood chip and looking smug.

"I was bred and born in the briar patch, Brer Fox," he called. "Born and bred in the briar patch."

And Brer Rabbit skipped away as merry as a cricket while Brer Fox ground his teeth in rage and went home.

raymond phule

climber
Apr 8, 2015 - 03:28am PT
I doubt that this new rule together with the inconsistent banning and deleting of forum members and posts will do any good for the forum.

Why should people contribute to the forum when threads sometimes get locked and many interesting posts dissapear when someone get banned?

I don't really have anything about a moderated forum but this forum just became more and more random in its moderation.
DanaB

climber
CT
Apr 8, 2015 - 04:26am PT
Mighty Hiker.

Thought we'd see an ivory billed woodpecker before we saw a post from that necks of the woods.
couchmaster

climber
Apr 8, 2015 - 06:22am PT

Well, I rarely checked into the Climate change forum, but am sorry I won't be able to see that exchange. I find things like that to be interesting and helpful towards helping formulating an intelligent opinion. Deleting a few folks like Crankster, who has never posted any climbing content that anyone is aware of and seems to thrive on being nasty and adversarial, would go a long way to help the cause. Whacking a post by posters who lay a personal attack on another would help, after 3 deletes of nasty posts, said poster gets banned (but the content remains). Thinking Coz's great climbing stuff being disappeared when he was axed the 2nd time.

Reading 2 smart but otherwise adversarial posters, like Ed H and madbolter1 go at it and NO personal attacks in either of their posts as they explain a divergent view with facts and figures, is one of the reasons I like it here. I would be sorry to miss that when an angry adversarial d#@&%e with no facts but plenty of opinion steps up and starts being nasty to someone thus the thread gets frozen. Which may be just what the nasty person is trying to achieve. I guess the good goes away with the bad. However, it's your site Chris, and there are a bunch of great things about it that the new policy won't affect, so that's good.

Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 8, 2015 - 06:36am PT
I doubt that this new rule together with the inconsistent banning and deleting of forum members and posts will do any good for the forum.

I agree, and it's odd timing for Chris to claim "personal attacks" as a rationale to axe the climate thread now. Since the departure of The Chief a few weeks ago (most of whose 6,000+ posts seemed to be personal attacks) things have been relatively substantive there. And even at its worst that thread contained more actual science than the rest of ST combined. Quite a few posts involved discussion of just-published research papers, with contributions by people who have read them, tried to place them in context with other research, and sometimes even re-analyze their data. There were also some honest Q&A exchanges, like about how to reconcile confusing or seemingly contradictory new research findings. If you thought the thread was all personal attacks, you were skipping past the parts that weren't.

My last post there aimed to open discussion about wildfires, about which I'm currently doing some research and would have had more to say. TLP responded with an informative (to me) post about the contrasting frequency and evolutionary role of wildfires California's chaparral and conifer ecosystems. Malemute followed with links to four articles he found interesting, and the complaint that "Americans don't give a sh#t about their kids & grandkids" which of course set off some arguments about America, but then the discussion veered off to the very interesting topic of weather/climate connections -- disagreements but not a personal attack in sight from there until Chris ends the thread, cutting off the weather/climate dialog.

I don't really have anything about a moderated forum but this forum just became more and more random in its moderation.

That's my impression too.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Apr 8, 2015 - 07:27am PT
hey there say, chiloe... say, hope you have, or can do, a forest thread, idea? folks could read what you had to share, there, if you could not get a chance to share that stuff yet...

trees and forest, are something that all climbers, worry about, especially in fire seasons...

edit:
was surprised that there was a froze-thread already, as ed and chiloe, mentioned...
not sure, but i think the epilepsy site, may have warned once, on a thread, that it would be closed/locked--so, i was just surprised, is all...


okay, onward, we all go, :)
on a new path...
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 8, 2015 - 07:40am PT
Is the climate thread the first and only example of this new "policy" in action so far?
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Apr 8, 2015 - 08:01am PT
The Why Are Republicans WRONG about EVERYTHING? thread has also been frozen.

Although I never clicked once on it (hint), I would not be surprised if the Gun Debate thread got a freeze job soon.

Somewhat understandable, looks like CMac wants to get back to the routes on this forum.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Apr 8, 2015 - 08:06am PT
Yep....getting back to the routes will get ST back to it's roots.
crankster

Trad climber
Apr 8, 2015 - 08:29am PT
^^^
THE BIGGEST problem with this forum, front and center. YOU and your guns, guns and more guns...Chris wants a forum that focuses on climbing, not the best caliber for shooting squirrels or why you support open carry or any of your other not-thinly veiled threats.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Apr 8, 2015 - 08:29am PT
Yes indeed, thank you. Probably one of the primary reasons why many people have left the ST forum.

+1
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Apr 8, 2015 - 09:21am PT
Probably one of the primary reasons why many people have left the ST forum.

Who are you thinking about when you say this? Most folks who no longer post, that I can think of, posted on all sorts of topics.


A forum is like a nuclear reactor - it needs enough mass to sustain the process.

+1
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 8, 2015 - 09:29am PT
Ironic isn't it ? The imagined, highly politicized and endlessly propagandized venutian hell of Climate Change Alarmists and profiteers has gone cold, frozen in fact, just like Earths increasing ice mass and prolonged NH winters which will become even more pronounced in the long minimum between Schwabe solar cycles 24/25.
guido

Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
Apr 8, 2015 - 09:35am PT
I get it, this is to become the new Climate Thread-bring on the yellow card Chris!

And to think CM will have to nuke his own thread.

Now that Jon Stewart is exiting we will have a new Comedy Central right here on ST..................
Mark Force

Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
Apr 8, 2015 - 09:39am PT
Ed, your civility is an example for all of us and thanks for giving us the benefit of your science based insights.

It does seem that there is often worthwhile content on threads where some individuals have become bad mannered. It may be worth letting them know they need to become friendlier around the campfire to continue to be welcome and stay in the conversation.

If politics are important in your life then get involved personally and make a difference in this world. Develope a plan, get out there and do something to help the planet and it's inhabitants.

Good one, Lynne!

There's a guy I read about once who summed it up well...
" Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."
Matthew 7:20
Urizen

Ice climber
Berkeley, CA
Apr 8, 2015 - 09:42am PT
Here in Las Vegas I should be able to find someone to make book on the day when this thread will be locked in the freezer.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Trad climber
Will know soon
Apr 8, 2015 - 09:43am PT
I think the political, science and social threads are fine. I personally have learned much about other's perspectives from them. When they degenerate into "You're wrong. No you're wrong", and then personal attacks.... that's a turn off.

Enjoy the day, it's the only one we have. Cheers and hope to see ya all at J.Tree.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Trad climber
Will know soon
Apr 8, 2015 - 09:45am PT
Locker, and we do.....:)
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 8, 2015 - 09:46am PT
Mixed feelings about this.

Assholes screeching at each other can ruin a thread, no question about that. But whether it is better to dump the thread or dump the as#@&%es is an interesting problem.

There are subjects other than climbing that climbers want to discuss, and on many of those subjects we have differences of opinion. So is it better to agree that we will never discuss those subjects, because if we try to, the usual as#@&%es will show up and start spewing sh#t? Or is it better to kick out the as#@&%es?

i've always thought the latter was the right answer, but this thread-freezing idea may give us a way to test what works and what doesn't. Is it possible to have an online political discussion that doesn't degenerate into poo-flinging? I guess we can now find out. Same for religion, or guns or healthcare or...

Bottom line though, is that a forum that allows nothing other than climbing content will soon wither away.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Apr 8, 2015 - 09:47am PT
well this thread ran to 102 posts in a hurry.

Chris, given other distasteful options I think you've made a wise choice. Banning thoroughly rude people seemed not only futile but infantile and contrary to the whole spirit of the WWW. Which I'm sure is why you've always been so hesitant to do it.

We'll see how it goes.
Here's to civil discourse!
Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
Apr 8, 2015 - 09:55am PT
Chris, I hope that you understand the danger of this approach.
The main asset of a forum is its community.
You are probably aware that many forums (including somewhat related summitpost) were essentially killed by heavy handed moderation of well wishing moderators.

For example I never opened threads about republicans or guns, but I am concerned that closing them may force some people away thus diminishing energy of this community.
If I am offended by some topics or people I just skip them without paying more attention.

Departure of The Chief was one of the first steps of Summitpost to oblivion.
Is Supertopo heading in the same direction?
Mark Force

Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
Apr 8, 2015 - 09:55am PT
Good one, Locker!!!
Lynne Leichtfuss

Trad climber
Will know soon
Apr 8, 2015 - 10:10am PT
Perhaps CMac is hoping to draw in a younger demographic. We could use an infusion.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 8, 2015 - 10:20am PT
I'm thinking it's more along the lines of wanting the ASSholes to quit being such aSsholes...

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 8, 2015 - 10:23am PT
I don't care for personal attacks, but I agree with those who say you will take away some of the essence of the place through more moderation. If you insist on using it, make it as light a touch as possible.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 8, 2015 - 10:26am PT
Perhaps CMac is hoping to draw in a younger demographic.

My TR-writing here has gone way down since my trips got less report-worthy. Perhaps that creeping decline has snuck up on a few others here as well.

Lynne Leichtfuss

Trad climber
Will know soon
Apr 8, 2015 - 10:33am PT
Chiloe, exactly. But not just that......each generation has so much to offer and it's a blast to learn and stay in touch with the whole world ....not just mine.

I love living with my son and his wife and kids. Last election they gave me new insights into Monsanto, global warming and much more. And Seth at his worst off the couch climbing is still pretty dang good. And, he knows where the secret bouldering spot is. Need I say more?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 8, 2015 - 11:14am PT
Perhaps CMac is hoping to draw in a younger demographic. We could use an infusion.

I would think yes!

I personally have had more problems with baby boomers than the older generations of climbers.


me thinks some guys have to use supertopo to boost the ego.. I on the other hand love to meet new people..
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Apr 8, 2015 - 11:18am PT
Boy, I'm away from ST for a day and the rules change. CMac, this is your forum, so I generally support your decisions. I strongly agree that "freezing" beats banning and deleting all posts.

My heart, however, is with Werner, Ed, Chiloe and all the rest who express concerns about, essentially, throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I've learned a very great deal from both on- and off-topic discussions here, but even that misses my real concern.

The climbers I started climbing with had a certain tolerance - or even preference for - anarchy, over regimentation. When I began climbing in the mid-1960's climbing seemed to me a perfect sport for misfits and true nonconformists. To date, this website, almost alone among climbing websites, hosted discussions that rang true - to me, at least - to the sorts of campfire rants I enjoyed so many years ago.

I will watch with great interest to see how this policy change works out. While I hope it gives us a forum with a much higher signal-to-noise ratio, I hope it doesn't simply produce fewer signals.

John
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 8, 2015 - 11:27am PT
Might want to rethink your post above as they're pretty much one in the same...

ive met climbers who are aged 70 to 80 that are rad and nice unlike the dudes who in their 50 to 60years... hows that lucker!

Fish Finder

climber
Apr 8, 2015 - 11:33am PT
Freezing a few handful of large ugly non climbing threads that the owner thinks isnt serving his needs is so very acceptable

do you know the band width they take up here
with all the links

it will cause posters to second think the topics they are droning on that really should be discussed at other forums

Yes , everything I post is important to me, i dont post climbing things
I know I should though

Posters
just look at the 900 lb Gorrila in the room
its those huge threads that a handful of "ass hats" get on and fuel the spirits of the intelligent

you wanna rate clouds
got to the f'n weather channel.com

you wanna talk politics
go to foxnews.com

you wanna talk religion
go to christian mingle.com

nobody's personalities or thoughts or ideas are being crushed by this new move


Check yourself
before you wreck yourself

and for Christ sake
just be happy your here

Thanks again Chris
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Apr 8, 2015 - 11:40am PT
Whatever personality traits people have they likely peak in the fifties when energy is still high and a lifetime of validation is in play.
By the 70's and 80's the fires have banked and the smoke has settled allowing a clearer view of the fact that it didn't matter that much after all.
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Apr 8, 2015 - 11:44am PT
I tend to ignore anything posted by locker. I suggest everyone do the same.
Daphne

Trad climber
Northern California
Apr 8, 2015 - 11:47am PT
I am sorry that some wonderful, mature, and contained people will be deprived of their discussion. Hopefully, as enough threads get shut down, reasonable behavior will rule.

Then, I will be able to click on the off topic links more often to witness reasoned, intelligent conversation.

It's kind of like when the Law came to the Wild West. The rabble rousers rebelled but the majority of the people were happy to be able to go about their business peaceably.



Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
Apr 8, 2015 - 11:48am PT
Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries. Be off, silly wipers of other people's bottoms or I will be forced to taunt you a second time.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Norton

Social climber
quitcherbellyachin
Apr 8, 2015 - 11:52am PT
I tend to ignore anything posted by locker. I suggest everyone do the same.


now that's just wrong
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Apr 8, 2015 - 11:53am PT
BRING ME A SHRUBBERY.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 8, 2015 - 11:58am PT
I think Ed Hartouni had a point about an important non-climbing thread getting shut down, but....

Hopefully, the freezing of threads that get ugly WILL help people to curb a taste for the acerbic. Nobody will want to be the idiot who got the thread frozen(let's hope), and so they will temper their tempers.

The climate thread topic can be reopened as a new thread, with a link to the frozen one, to continue the conversation. The same can be done with any thread which gets frozen. Eventually, we as a group may actually change out habits of posting angry and ugly spew. certainly most should be able to contain themselves.
Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
Apr 8, 2015 - 12:05pm PT
Locker laughed at "Reductio ad Hitlerum" so I love him again. I was wrong to get miffed.

Anita, who are you that goes around saying Shrubbery to old ladies?
tolman_paul

Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
Apr 8, 2015 - 12:30pm PT
I appreciate Chris's intent to reduce the rancor on the forum, but as one who has spent way too much time on various forums over the past 20 years I can sadly say that whether or not a forum is heavily moderated or anything goes, there will be some folks that are just bent on pushing other peoples buttons, and anything short of banning them just isn't going to work. As climbers who are generally independently spirited and at best bristle at any attempt to curb that spirit, the backlash is to be expected.

Don't know if this software allows it, but on UBB forums there is an option for each user to black posts from whatever posters they select. That way everyone has their own personal level of filtering out people that they'd rather not interact with.

After having taken a ~3 year hiatus from supertopo, I can say it doesn't seem to have changed at all. That's both good and bad ;)
Norton

Social climber
quitcherbellyachin
Apr 8, 2015 - 12:39pm PT
Don't know if this software allows it, but on UBB forums there is an option for each user to black posts from whatever posters they select.

there is

Greasemonkey
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Apr 8, 2015 - 01:15pm PT
Hmmm. Editorial control strikes Supertopo in 2015. The party is over.

This thread is degenerating into Locker personal attacks on well deserved. He is the coyote feeding on the carrion that others leaving lying around. The unfinished picnic lunch on the table at Quail Springs.


If I were moderator (instead of too lazy to create such a beautiful forum) I would:

1. Notify rules offenders with an email. About 3 times.

2. Delete their offending posts.

3. After 3 hours of company time spent moderating the offending personality switch off their account.


But all this costs money.

Adding positive content to this site makes money for the host. (Well deserved.)

Inflaming conflict and upset on and on costs him money. (Not deserved.)


So you are part of the solution or part of the problem.
rmuir

Social climber
From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Apr 8, 2015 - 01:36pm PT

It seems to me that freezing a thread, because of uncivil behavior by a few, doesn't adequately or correctly address the root problem.

Shouldn't the few be chastened, yellow-carded, or held accountable for their behavior instead? Warn, then freeze the offending idiot. And don't delete content, since it ruins the remaining thread. Don't apply a global fix for a localized problem. This, is a Republican approach that is ill-suited to the problem.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Apr 8, 2015 - 01:37pm PT

My mind is stuck on a tune at present. Maybe it needs a home, and this thread is that home, and if I leave it here, it will leave me.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Apr 8, 2015 - 01:42pm PT
You must cut down the mightiest tree in the forest... with... A HERRING!
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Apr 8, 2015 - 01:44pm PT

Yes, that makes rythmical sense and would surely help, but I'm too lazy...
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 8, 2015 - 01:59pm PT
Whatever personality traits people have they likely peak in the fifties when energy is still high and a lifetime of validation is in play.
By the 70's and 80's the fires have banked and the smoke has settled allowing a clearer view of the fact that it didn't matter that much after all.

Thanks jim usually to deal with narcissism you just have to let it grow out of them..

for you baby-boomer locker!
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Apr 8, 2015 - 02:01pm PT
Rmuir, a Republican approach?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Apr 8, 2015 - 02:54pm PT
Rmuir, a Republican approach?

I thought it was a brilliant way for Robs to subvert the implicit intention of this thread!

John
Jones in LA

Mountain climber
Tarzana, California
Apr 8, 2015 - 02:57pm PT
The campfire analogy has some appeal, but in reality, it's not analogous to what can and does happen in a forum such as this. Even in the midst of heated debate, real-life campfire attendees who are speaking with each other face-to-face will naturally show at least some level of civility, for fear of being ostracized by the group (in real-time). On the other hand, there will be virtual campfire attendees, who, as they sit alone -- slumped across the computer keyboard in the basement of their Mom's house, feel no such fear at all.

Rich Jones
Jones in LA

Mountain climber
Tarzana, California
Apr 8, 2015 - 03:13pm PT
@mcguzzy -- yes, civility can be portioned in infinitesimally small pieces :-)
Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
Apr 8, 2015 - 03:29pm PT
"I came in here for an argument."

"Oh,sorry, this is abuse. You want 12a. Next door."

[Click to View YouTube Video]




P.s. Don't censor the community. Climbers are boring when they only talk about climbing and training. The opportunity to learn from our mistakes and to grow is tied up in freedom. It's messy but it's still a good thing.
The ugly threads are easily avoided. If it doesn't have a home then it will permeate the rest of the topics. Let them have their 50,000 posts of pure genius.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Apr 8, 2015 - 04:16pm PT
Yes, climbers can be boring when they talk only about climbing but consider the wrong minded, fatuous and downright egregious shite that comes out of their mouths when they pontificate about things they are passionate about but have little knowledge of.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Apr 8, 2015 - 04:43pm PT
clicks all pay the same regardless of political affiliation.

anyone stop to consider that The Macster might be a climate denying Republican tired of sitting idly by while a bunch of blue lefty eco terrorists run rampant in his virtual house?.....nah....couldn't be.



Lynne Leichtfuss

Trad climber
Will know soon
Apr 8, 2015 - 05:12pm PT
Getting back to the frothing topic of the forum.

Age demographics are important. The above posters mentioned 40 years and beyond. Forties not really that young. Just wondering how many 20 to 30 year old climbers we have here on ST? If none we are dinosaur material.
crankster

Trad climber
Apr 8, 2015 - 05:17pm PT
My guess on the Supertopo forum demographics:

99% white
95% men
45% > over 50
45% 30 - 50
10% < 30

The above should explain why political or current event threads get contentious.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Apr 8, 2015 - 05:58pm PT
Welcome to preschool. Be good boys and girls or else you will have a time out.


WBraun

climber
Apr 8, 2015 - 06:00pm PT
Dead school, zombies and a anonymous loud mouth ....
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 8, 2015 - 06:09pm PT
I'm the object of frequent personal attacks.

I don't care!

Once upon a time in a job interview I was asked the trite question,

"What's your greatest weakness?".

my answer was,

"I've never been able to suffer fools gladly"

This place has been a great exercise in developing my tolerance for fools.

Too bad it's being neutered.

Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 8, 2015 - 06:25pm PT
This could be a good thing. Good luck!
Nobody Is deprived of anything. Just start the thread over again, and play nice!
Sounds good on paper, anyway....
I'm kinda glad Wolf City rolls a little more rough shod though...

Anita, what about another shrubbery? Another one a little lower, making a two level affect....
Ecka, ekca, Kabling! .......... Nee
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Apr 8, 2015 - 06:29pm PT
hey there say, chiloe...

say, as to this quote of yours:

My TR-writing here has gone way down since my trips got less report-worthy. Perhaps that creeping decline has snuck up on a few others here as well.


say, oh my... please, hopefully you will not think this is so... your trip reports are so-worth reading... i think what it is:

folks write so many and then, to themselves, well, they SEEM the same, or ' mundane' etc... as, these are your 'haunts and habits', but to us that don't climb... or that are just starting... or those that perhaps frequent OTHER areas:

there is ALWAYS something there to catch the interest and to spark a flame, or enrich the brain...


sure hope you will, when you have time--grace us all the more, here with reports... even if:

just a 'thin line' of it 'across' the expanse... ;)
(using your photo, for inspiration here, as to 'word play' )....



1-something old,
2-something new,
3-something borrowed,
4-something blue...

1-as to the area,
2-the unique day of the climb,
3-as to the ideas and insights,
4-and--the SKYand it's weather!


trip reports are a way for us ALL to walk in the steps and climbs, of
others, here... :) hope to hear more from you...

Greg Child

climber
Apr 8, 2015 - 06:34pm PT
Maybe if people used their real names instead of make-believe names it'd be more civil.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 8, 2015 - 07:03pm PT
What makes you think I'm in a bad mood?

When you've reduced them to spittle spewing venomous rages,

you've won!
Mark Force

Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
Apr 8, 2015 - 07:06pm PT
Maybe if people used their real names instead of make-believe names it'd be more civil.

Hmmm, does seem like it would promote some degree of accountability for your speech.
WBraun

climber
Apr 8, 2015 - 07:14pm PT
That anonymous loud mouth here who never takes any accountability ....
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Apr 8, 2015 - 07:15pm PT
Mark and Greg are right on...it might force someone not to act like a child.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 8, 2015 - 07:16pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
what I love about Stoney point is similar to supertopo.
climbing community-based system..



Some of us have been branded with a nickname..
pretty much doesn't go away!
Mark Force

Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
Apr 8, 2015 - 07:19pm PT
We know who you are Werner!


And, it makes us smile....


And, I crack up at your moose drool, Andrzej Citkowicz.
crankster

Trad climber
Apr 8, 2015 - 07:21pm PT
Agree. Every forum has a resident bully.
I hear him coming...
vvvvv
WBraun

climber
Apr 8, 2015 - 07:21pm PT
That anonymous loud mouth coward here who never takes any accountability ....

He starts with his anonymous unaccountability by the name of cran.....
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Apr 8, 2015 - 07:24pm PT
----berry...?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Apr 8, 2015 - 07:30pm PT
A few people with avatars posting on an internet forum have absolutely no filters and will say anything.

Those who use their real names on a forum are more circumspect about what they say. Unless they are old, like me, and could care a flying f*#k what people think.

People meeting face to face are supremely aware of what reaction their comments might incite in the other person and sculpt them accordingly.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Apr 8, 2015 - 07:35pm PT
Moose, IC beckons....bring tape!
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Apr 8, 2015 - 07:40pm PT
"People with avatars on an internet forum have absolutely no filters and will say anything."

Donini, you go too far with that one.

Usually you're more measured with your posting.



You'll note not having an avatar doesn't filter WB or his ilk one iota.
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Apr 8, 2015 - 07:44pm PT
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Apr 8, 2015 - 07:59pm PT
High Fructose you are right....I should have said "some" people and they are far from the majority.....sorry!
hashbro

Trad climber
Mental Physics........
Apr 8, 2015 - 08:42pm PT
if non-climbing threads are frozen here, then much of the beauty and power of this (once quite) innovative forum....will be lost
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 8, 2015 - 08:44pm PT
A few people with avatars posting on an internet forum have absolutely no filters and will say anything.

True, but not everyone who uses an avatar other than their real name is an as#@&%e.

Some of us took silly names without giving it much thought, but have never hidden behind that anonymity. Our real names aren't secret, and we're well enough known by too many people to ever feel that we can act like as#@&%es on ST without it coming back to bite us.

But yes, people who hide behind anonymous avatars so that they don't have to take responsibility for what they say online are despicable cowards.
Gilroy

Social climber
Bolderado
Apr 8, 2015 - 08:54pm PT
^^^ What David said.

It should also be noted that OT threads are not being frozen per se. OT threads that turn into personal attack fests will be frozen. I take that to mean OT threads are as welcome as ever as long as civility reigns. I'm OK with that.

Keith Guillory
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Apr 8, 2015 - 09:09pm PT
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Apr 8, 2015 - 09:11pm PT
Hey Chris McNamara,

I am actually kind of pissed off at you. Are you going to deal with our concerns this time, or not?

The last thread like this you started is here:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2545338&tn=0&mr=0

This is the thread where you asked, "When does OT become so far off that it doesn't belong?"

You made a single post asking the question, and there were 379 replies, many of them extremely constructive, and many of them requiring considerable thought. A lot of us spent a lot of time offering suggestions as to how you could improve your forum.

How did you respond, Chris Mac? Did you weigh in with your analysis? Did you let us know what you thought, the pros and cons concerning our various ideas? Did you implement or even consider a single change based on our suggestions?

Did you even bother to thank us?

So how DID you respond, Chris Mac?

Answer: You didn't! WHY NOT?

Your credibility is at stake here, Chris. You really need to respond to this post, and I mean actively, consistently and constructively. Otherwise you are basically a fart in a windstorm.

I intend to hold you accountable for answers. And I hope the people who wrote the 193 posts before your first one and this one I just wrote will also hold you accountable.

Please do not ignore our concerns a second time. It smacks of ingratitude.

Peter Zabrok,
Ontario, Canada
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Apr 8, 2015 - 09:15pm PT
Hey Chris McNamara,

I am actually kind of pissed off at you. Are you going to deal with our concerns this time, or not?

This place just reeks of self-importance.


you are basically a fart in a windstorm.

Glass houses, broheim.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Apr 8, 2015 - 09:28pm PT
Per up-thread posts about remaining anonymous on ST, my thoughts mostly echo what Ghost has to say on the subject:

Our real names aren't secret, and we're well enough known by too many people to ever feel that we can act like as#@&%es on ST without it coming back to bite us.

But yes, people who hide behind anonymous avatars so that they don't have to take responsibility for what they say online are despicable cowards
.

On a personal level: I do have a desire to make it somewhat harder for the rest of the internet universe to track me down.

And so far as the anonymous its: like High Fructose Corn Spirit & bookworm that apparently have no real life, no ST friends, and never attend a ST event.

I still think they are Republican computer programs.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Apr 8, 2015 - 09:57pm PT
I didn't read Chris M's initial (and thus far only) post on this thread as asking for our opinion. It was announcing a policy. While I may not like it, the reasoning behind it should be obvious, given the repeated complaints from the (usually repeating) complainers. They don't want to read through threads that seem to be populated by precocious toddlers. Precocious because they can write. Toddlers because their writing amounts to little more than infantile whining.

And the complainers don't want to bother with Greasemonkey, or actually scroll down past the first page.

Johannes Brahms is said to have left a party in Vienna once saying "If there is anyone here I have not insulted, I apologize." Have I offended everyone yet? Actually, I hope not. Too many whose opinions I value, and whose comments I always read, have left, either quietly or in a huff. Perhaps the new rules might cause them to peek in and stay for a while.

John
sac

Trad climber
Sun Coast B.C.
Apr 8, 2015 - 11:41pm PT
PTPP... you need to like, chill.

Gettin' all Hostile n' sh#t.

Dude.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Apr 8, 2015 - 11:45pm PT
So how many posts until this thread gets frozen? 225?
Fish Finder

climber
Apr 8, 2015 - 11:54pm PT
PTPP

quit being such a BABY HUEY

and take the pacifier outta your ass

and put it in your mouth and STFU

Nobody is accountable to yourself except yourself

You dribbling on about how CMAC owes you something is embarrassing
and certainly dont speak for me as one of the posters to this thread

Seriously dude WTFDYTYA
get over your Canadian rhetoric BITCH

Edit:
CMAC owns this place have some respect
he can create the pool and fill it with water and walk away
he doesnt have to sit around and piss in it with everybody else
Do you think he would hang with you in real life?
He sure the hell doesnt have to hang with you here
your tact is not getting you anywhere
but keep being the big man like someone owes you something and your pissed
ruffle those feathers bro Im sure your lady loves it
In America we call it being a COCK
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Apr 9, 2015 - 04:17am PT
This thread needs more...



Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 9, 2015 - 05:27am PT
Foresooth It would take a mighty herring indeed, to cut down that tallest of shrubberies in the land!
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 9, 2015 - 06:10am PT
Make this site inviting not combative
This world famous rock climbing site must have been audited by google..
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Apr 9, 2015 - 06:20am PT
Bowline or Figure-8?

That is the question.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Apr 9, 2015 - 06:21am PT
Lezarian...I know Brahmns and you're no Johannes...! Sorry for the precoscious whining...rj
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 9, 2015 - 06:34am PT
Dings can I find you on youtube?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 9, 2015 - 06:37am PT
No over reacting from me, just plain disappointed in the way it was handled.

Again, let's lower the bar so the bottom feeders can reach it.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/08/wisconsin-climate-change-board_n_7028732.html
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 9, 2015 - 06:39am PT
Bob lowering dumbing down?
Bob who are bottom feeders?
Gotta think that this site could grow pretty good with audience participation..


Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Apr 9, 2015 - 06:55am PT
well, i've been staying away from this miserable forum for a couple of years, the reason being what chrismac seems to be trying to address here, but i would agree with others who don't think this is quite the right way of going about it.

chris occasionally bans people from supertopo. i would agree with most of his exclusions, disagree with a few others. he could solve this problem by banning the right people, and the big criterion ought to be climbing credentials. there are two kinds of people on here, climbers and obvious nonclimbers and it doesn't take long for climbers to figure out who's who. nonclimbers should be welcome, until they become disruptive. then the leash ought to be a lot shorter than for the climbers. i think it's that simple.

i would add, per chris's original post: "political" and "personal" are two different things. "political" is a pretty broad word, and excluding everything political and asking people not to start new political threads? that would really change things drastically here. personal is another story. when the mudslinging starts to get vicious, disruptive, or even libelous (those lawsuits will be coming to the internet some day), that's the time to think about shortening the leash.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 9, 2015 - 07:03am PT
So it's okay for Real Climbers to be disruptive?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Apr 9, 2015 - 07:21am PT
"Don't like it, check the f*#k out."

+1 & a whole bunch more
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Apr 9, 2015 - 07:29am PT
Nearly all of the pissing matches involve political threads. Arguing politics is fun. That's why people do it.

A big part of the problem with ST pissing matches is posters only criticize lousy behavior done by the opposition. Trolls get a pass from politically like-minded. Very little is "over the line" if the target is an adversary.

This new policy gives us a chance to act like grownups. If you want OT threads to remain active, then reign in all asshattery.
Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
Apr 9, 2015 - 07:37am PT
He checked out a long time ago.

I was doing some research which Irishmen might find educational or offensive depending on the sensitivities of said Irishman. According to the racial slur database the PaddyWagon is used to bunch up those troublesome immigrant potato eaters.

Reason & Origins
Baluba Blacks Name belonging to a tribe that killed Irish soldiers in Africa.
Bog-Jumper Irish Many bogs in Ireland
Bog-trotter Irish Abundance of bogs in Ireland
Carrot Top Irish Hair color.
Cat-lick Irish Catholic - Cat-lick.
Chalky Blacks Heard throughout Ireland, extremely derogatory word for blacks, who have an increasing number in the Irish population.
Clover Irish Clovers are prevalent in Irish society.
Clown Irish Not used so much as a racial slur, however, the classic clown is based on a stereotyped image of Irish people: bushy red hair, a large red nose (from excessive drinking), and colorful clothes often with plaids, and often with a great many patches to represent that the Irish were poor and could not buy themselves new clothes. With excessive plaid is a Scottish variation.
Coal-Cracker Irish Many Irish immigrants mined coal.
Donkey Irish It was cheaper to hire an irishman than a donkey in the pennsylvania coal minning days of the 1800's
Drunk Irish Irish are stereotypically drunks.
F.B.I. Irish Foreign Born Irish
Fenian Irish Refers to Irish Roman Catholic immigrants living in such large U.K. cities as Glasgow, Liverpool and Manchester. Also used by Protestants to demean Catholics in Northern Ireland. Irish republicans use it to identify themselves as a member of Sien Fienn, the political party of the IRA. Derived from Gaelic stories of the Fianna, a mythical group of warriors. Not inherently derogatory.
Fire Bush Irish Red hair.
Fire Crotch Irish They have red hair
Frotch Irish See: Fire Crotch
Fumblin' Dublin Irish Known as a slur for drunk, unemployed, Irish men. They are usually found under the influence outside of Dublin's bars.
Green Irish The Irish were once loosely called the green race.
Green Bean Mixed Races Irish/Mexican mix
Green Nigger Irish Mainly in US cities with large Irish populations. Used to denote the Irish, who many hold in the same regard as blacks.
Harp Irish Perhaps derived from the fact that Harp Ale is brewed in Ireland or that the Harp is popular instrument amongst the Irish. The harp is also the symbol of Ireland, a green flag with a harp is displayed by a lot of Irish people.
Hibe Irish Short for Hibernian (of, relating to, or characteristic of Ireland or the Irish).
Hillbilly Scottish Ulster Scots who supported the Protestant King William of Orange at the Battle of the Boyne came to be known as "Billy Boys." The combination of "hill" and "billy" first came into use at this time. A large number of Appalachian settlers were Scotch-Irish, and the term arrived with them.
Larrikin Australians Not so much an insult; Comical, roguish individual, prone to rowdy and unruly behaviour, (drunkenness). Coined from an Irish policeman in a Melbourne court, claiming the prisoner was "larkin about". Stereotypical Aussie behaviour.
Leprechaun Irish From the well-known old Irish myth of the chubby green-clad gnome (what happens when you mix Catholicism with Paganism). Popularized in America by Lucky from the Lucky Charms cereal and St. Patrick's Day.
Leprecoon Blacks Combination of Leprechaun and Coon for blacks of Irish descent.
Mackerel Snapper Irish It can be applied to any Catholic, Irish or otherwise. In the past, Catholics were forbidden from eating meat on Fridays. They got around this sort of the same way some vegetarians do, by eating fish (although technically this is not vegetarian, but "pescetarian"). Still observed in heavily-Catholic areas (they even have school/church fish-fry Fridays).
McChigger Mixed Races Irish/Chinese/African American mix
McKraut Mixed Races German/Irish person. Used in the Godfather trilogy.
McNugget Scottish For scottish or irish children - Mc (or Mac) for scottish/irish, nugget to represent that they are children
McSpic Mixed Races Mixed race of Irish and Hispanics
McWop Mixed Races Irish/Italian, Mick and Wop, play on common Irish last names.
Mead Irish The Irish are commonly drunk on mead and mead-derived alcohols
Mick/Mic/Mc Irish Many Irish surnames begin with "Mc" or "Mac." Many Irish are also named after the famed Michael Collins, making Michael (Mick) a very common name. Not as derogatory as Paddy.
Mucker Irish Used in Boston because Irish immigrants could mostly only find employment helping to fill in the Back Bay which was at the time, marsh and water.
Nagur Blacks The Irish-Americans called black people "Nagurs" because they could not pronounce the word "Nigger" with their accent.
Narrow Back Irish The son or daughter of an Irish immigrant.
Nina Irish No Irish Need Apply (from the days of the potato famine and they immigrated to the US and nobody wanted to hire them)
Paddy Irish Used mainly in Britain. Similar negativity connotations as "nigger". Comes from St. Patrick and/or from the common Irish name Padraig. Also spelled Patty.
Paddy Wagon Irish Variation of "paddy." The term Paddy Wagon derives from the idea that the Irish were all criminals, and when the police came to quell a brawl or something of the like, they would just be rounding up a bunch of "paddys."
Plastic Paddy Irish Term used by the Irish describing those who grew up in the a foreign country (specifically the UK) and still identify as being Irish.
Pogue Irish Possibly from Irish Gaelic "pogue mo thoin", meaning "kiss my arse". Could also refer to the Irish folk group "The Pogues" who did popular traditional Irish songs.
Pot-Licker Irish During the potato famine, the would lick their pots clean to get every last morsel of food.
Potato Breath Irish The Irish are notorious for their love of the potato
Potato Head Irish The Irish grow potatoes.
Potato Nigger Irish Because they eat lots of potatoes
Potato-Eater Irish Irish eat potatoes. Used in Gangs of New York.
Proddy Irish Northern Irish Protestants. Shortened, diminutive form of Protestant.
Provo Irish Shortened form of "Provisional Irish Republican Army (I.R.A.)" which is the most noted of the pro Northern Irish independence terrorist groups.
Shamrock Nigger Irish Shamrocks represent Ireland's heritage
Shant Irish Poor Irish People. Derived from the shacks they lived in -- the shanty.
Shillelagh-Hugger Irish A shillelagh is a staff commonly use by the Irish
Sid Irish Small Irish Dick. Irishmen are proud of their manhood
Smoked Irish Blacks Irish, especially during the late 19th early 20th century, were thought of as no better than "niggers," and conversely, blacks were associated with them.
Spud Irish The heavy influence of the potato in Ireland.
Spudnigger Irish Irish/Potato relationship. Also, Spudf*#ker.
Taig Irish Means "hero" in Gaelic. Used today as an insult by the Loyalist community in N Ireland.
Tater Tot Irish Irish Child.
Thick Mick Irish Commonly used in England where Irish immigrants did much of the manual labour. Thick meaning stupid, Mick as an abbreviation of Michael, a common Irish Christian name.
Tory Irish Bandit, from the Irish Tory Island, a noted have for bandits and pirates. Also common slang term for a member of Canada's Conservative party.
Turf-Cutter Irish Turf is peat moss, found in deep layers in Ireland. It was originally cut by most Irish farmers and used as fuel (an early form of coal). More modernly, it could apply to any drunk Irishmen working as greenkeepers, such as on golf courses.
White Nigger Irish Blacks called Irish Americans this during the 1800's in retaliation to being called "Nagurs"
Wic Whites 'White Irish Catholic'

The Racial Slur Database, since 1999. Not copyrighted in any way, shape or form.
This database was created entirely from data gleaned off the 'net and via submissions from people like you and your parents. It's supposed to be funny and/or informational. Calm down.
Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
Apr 9, 2015 - 07:57am PT
Scrubbles you're not a funny guy.
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Apr 9, 2015 - 08:35am PT
Stay classy, Scrubbles

Edit: And make yourself useful...

Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Apr 9, 2015 - 08:36am PT
He didn't ask anyone's opinion, Ron. He laid down the law. Don't like it, check the f*#k out.

Dictatorship rules? Many on this thread like that fine, but some have tried a different tack, with suggestions or hopes to make things less bad. Still from the silence it looks like Dingus is right.

Chris hands down his decision, now it's up to each poster to make his or her own.
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Apr 9, 2015 - 08:39am PT
All right, all right - obviously I overreacted. I am sorry if I offended anyone's sensibilities, and I apologize to Chris Mac if he took any offense to my post.

In this post:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2545338&tn=0&mr=0

Chris asked a question:
"When does OT become so far off that it doesn't belong?"

He received all sorts of input and suggestions - almost 500 - but what angers me is that Chris Mac- you didn't even bother to respond! It's almost like you are trolling, asking a question to provoke a lot of thought, and then not doing a damn thing, not even bothering to answer or comment?

I agree with someone up post who pointed out that Chris didn't ask a question here, merely made a pronouncement. So maybe he doesn't have to answer after all?

I would sure like to read an answer from Chris to the post linked above, however. I am still pissed that the forum is not divided into climbing stuff and non climbing stuff, which I believe would make a huge improvement to the place.

And I strongly approve of banning people who are intentionally disruptive. And if they return with a new avatar, ban them again.

Fake avatars, or anonymous avatars, are lame beyond all words. These people will never come up to me in Yosemite and say hi.

Anita: Please add shrubbery to my white man's problem. My gosh, what a waste of time and brain power... I feel as though I have been trolled by the owner of the forum.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Apr 9, 2015 - 08:53am PT
Chris I don't know if you'll read this but I also think this isn't the way to solve the problem.

I can only guess that the problem is certain people are complaining to you so you feel the need as the forum owners to do something about it. Rather than put the power to control topics in the hands of the people who can now lock a thread by using personal attacks and/or complaining and then you have to intervene and lock a thread that may otherwise have some good conversation going. I again suggest an "Ignore Member" button on everyone's profile page. People can then choose to ignore someone who attacks them or someone who doesn't want to hear attacks can ignore the members who engage in it. Or perhaps also an "Ignore Topic" button of the topic listing page (another column would be needed) to ignore OT threads if someone wants.

Make the forum work for people how they want it to. Don't use a process that requires a moderator's time to implement. Don't lock or delete topics that may have some good content in them because some people don't behave the way others want them to. Keep the forum free and unstructured which has made it different and successful compared to so many other forums that use the same open source code.

As a bonus you won't have to ban anyone. Let people who don't like a certain poster ban them themselves. Only two of the people banned from supertopo over the years I'm glad are gone. Not so much because of the tone of their content but because of the tone, quality and quantity of it. There is another user I'd like to ignore for the same reason. But I'm not going to complain about it, I just skip over their posts, but it would be easier if I could just click "Ignore Member" button once instead of keeping an eye out and constantly scrolling past their posts.

Fish Finder

climber
Apr 9, 2015 - 08:55am PT
Nice Pete
WAY to MAN up

much better approach

what goes on behind the curtaint of Oz we will never know

Cmac is an off hands touch and go guy with trying to manage the Monkeys
it obviously works for him and its his place . It must be a pain in the ass though dealing with it

The big picture is everyone has these great ideas of what they "think" will change the forum for the better

Dont you think they long ago have pondered splitting up the forum
They dont want to.period
so if your legs get tired on that soap box, just step down
you cant control whats not yours

I do agree with you that Anita should post more BUSH
but not such full ones
Anita do you have a trimmed BUSH?

Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
Apr 9, 2015 - 09:02am PT
Fish Finder

climber
Apr 9, 2015 - 09:07am PT
yes Locker

the Squeaky Wheel does not always get Greased


it gets replaced
Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
Apr 9, 2015 - 09:10am PT
Ignore Member
Fish Finder

climber
Apr 9, 2015 - 09:11am PT
ignore member.................that is a funny pun!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Apr 9, 2015 - 09:15am PT
Internet forums offer further evidence that the human race will never be free of war
Psilocyborg

climber
Apr 9, 2015 - 09:23am PT
He received all sorts of input and suggestions - almost 500 - but what angers me is that Chris Mac- you didn't even bother to respond! It's almost like you are trolling, asking a question to provoke a lot of thought, and then not doing a damn thing, not even bothering to answer or comment?

To me that is a good thing. He probably got better things to do.
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Apr 9, 2015 - 09:27am PT
I do agree with you that Anita should post more BUSH
but not such full ones
Anita do you have a trimmed BUSH?


I sure do!

mike m

Trad climber
black hills
Apr 9, 2015 - 09:32am PT
Delete the whole forum and start over. Who really cares about this crap. About 50 people
Fish Finder

climber
Apr 9, 2015 - 09:33am PT
that is great! hahahahaha

its amazing what people can do with clippers.
Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
Apr 9, 2015 - 09:38am PT
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Apr 9, 2015 - 10:36am PT
^^ Have I ever mentioned how much I *love* that SASSY girl? ^^

That's, um, quite the bush there, Anita....
Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
Apr 9, 2015 - 11:06am PT
Right?! Bullying is underrated. Particularly group bullying. Hear me out. It goes like this. Some jackass is being offensive at the campfire. The group is obliged to shout him down before some nice guy is forced to sit him down.
The platoon will scrub toilets until the private cleans his windows, if you feel me. And the beatings will continue until morale improves.
The communists got it right during the cultural revolution. As in, "We don't care how special you think that you are, you get cabbage and coal like the rest of us."
And I love the Mujahadin. Regardless of their lunatic religion. And I mean coockoo kill me Mohamed. Because I love some Hay-Rabs and I because I've love those badass helicopter blasting towel-heads since I was a boy. To hell with empire.
The Evolution will not be televised.
Hey Ed, f*#k these cubicle pukes, let's hook up with some babes and watch their hair grow.
yanqui

climber
Balcarce, Argentina
Apr 9, 2015 - 11:09am PT
Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can 'ni' at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land. Nothing is sacred. Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
Apr 9, 2015 - 11:35am PT
Did you come here for an argument?
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Apr 9, 2015 - 11:39am PT
Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
SammO

Social climber
Ohio
Apr 9, 2015 - 11:41am PT
I would have to think a clever troll (tho' extremely rare) might realize that they could effectively clip any thread they really didn't like, simply by posting such an attack.
When the pattern has been identified, as certain individuals being the main culprits, it would seem preferable to ban/edit them and them alone, even if you might expect them to reappear under new identities. That still involves a bit more frustration and work on their part, while clipping the posts gives them the win.
Also, banning those with a history automatically ends their effort to post to every other thread as well.
Are there certain categories of topic which attract such, or most quickly degenerate in this way? Perhaps a bit more self-editing from new posters might help avoid the most flagrant attractive nuisance-type post, and it seems self-indulgent and immature to post simply for the pleasure of goading certain people into a frenzy.
Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
Apr 9, 2015 - 11:42am PT
^ best python ever Anita ^

"How do you know he's a king?"

"He hasn't got shite all over him"



"Come and see the violence inherent in the system."
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Apr 9, 2015 - 11:57am PT
Thanks Anita and flip flop.

For the uninformed:

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Who knew so many disgruntled Americans.. who are not reduced to digging in the dirt for food.. who knew they would be echoing the sentiments of a 40 year old comedy???

Lennox

climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
Apr 9, 2015 - 12:14pm PT
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose . . .


http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=14032&msg=14032#msg14032

You will never make a site that pleases every poster and every lurker and every advertiser.

The more you moderate and make changes to the site attempting to defeat trolls and bad internet behavior, the more you will have to increase your moderation and changes to the site.

To paraphrase what someone upthread said, you will just create more adept trolls. Or you will eventually create the on-line forum equivalent of a tightly controlled cafeteria that only serves beige pablum.

Good luck Chris.
Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
Apr 9, 2015 - 12:14pm PT
A little known but absolutely true fact is that "Ni!" is royalist code for "No Irish!" And "Shrubber" is code for filthy potato farmers.
You heard it here first.




















































"Dennis, there's some lovely filth down here."
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Apr 9, 2015 - 12:28pm PT
^^ Have I ever mentioned how much I *love* that SASSY girl? ^^

Nope. Never.

You must prove it by finding me a shrubbery, which you must place here, beside this shrubbery, only slightly higher, so I get the two-level effect with a little path running down the middle.
Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
Apr 9, 2015 - 12:33pm PT
That's hot.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 9, 2015 - 01:25pm PT

Most business post this right when you walk into store..


Can't wait for Cmac to press charges on those repeat offenders who keep causing mayhem toward his online business..

Google will crack the whip..
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Apr 9, 2015 - 01:46pm PT
Hello there boys and girls. Welcome to Happytalkn Neighborhood.

Today's word is freeze. Do you know what freeze means? Well
look there. That is freeze. Freeze is real bad.
Freeze is what will happen if you tell an ahole where
to stick it because their ideas are stupid.

In Happytalkn Neighborhood its ok to be stupid but never tell anyone else
how stupid they really are. A virtual catch22.

Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Apr 9, 2015 - 01:57pm PT
The difference is how you tell someone you disagree with their idea.

For example the word stupid is derogatory. So the moment you use it your credibility drops.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 9, 2015 - 02:18pm PT
Sorry about ur buddy moose..
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Apr 9, 2015 - 02:19pm PT
The big delivers bigly..

For example the word stupid is derogatory. So the moment you use it your credibility drops.

Larry Nelson

Social climber
Apr 9, 2015 - 03:35pm PT
By the 70's and 80's the fires have banked and the smoke has settled allowing a clearer view of the fact that it didn't matter that much after all.

Amen to that. Maybe that's why I am growing into a bemused observer of life's ironies.

I've always thought that the climbing community in general reflected a population of very self motivated and independent individuals. This is why I have always valued the opinions of fellow climbers. A very diverse group with vast knowledge of many topics, ie: The Climate Thread was very educational.

Ad hominem attacks say more about that poster than their target, especially if the intended target takes the high road of reason and logic.

I like the climbing topics, but other threads are interesting as well. I find it ironic that there are some who decry any political thread at all, yet seem to always peek into those very threads.
(It always reminded me of the old joke about the women complaining of the obscene phone call. "It was the most vulgar thing I ever heard. He must have gone on for an hour or more".)
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Apr 9, 2015 - 04:48pm PT
For example the word stupid is derogatory. So the moment you use it your credibility drops.

That is just flat-out the dumbest thing I've ever heard, pal.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Apr 9, 2015 - 04:57pm PT
de·rog·a·to·ry
dəˈräɡəˌtôrē/
adjective
showing a critical or disrespectful attitude.
Source: google



The way it was used was as a put down.

Calling someone stupid just shuts down the discussion. Doesn't matter if you are correct in your a$$esment. It is better to prove why you think their ideas are false.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Apr 9, 2015 - 05:04pm PT
Calling someone stupid just shuts down the discussion. Doesn't matter if you are correct in your a$$esment. It is better to prove why you think their ideas are false.
Unless they are too unintelligent to understand facts and logic. Or too pig headed to accept facts and logic. There IS a difference.
WBraun

climber
Apr 9, 2015 - 05:14pm PT
Calling someone stupid just shuts down the discussion.

Yer all stoopid!

Blah blah blah blah and that's why ..... :-)

End of discussion.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 9, 2015 - 05:17pm PT
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Soo funny
So true!
Mark Force

Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
Apr 9, 2015 - 05:40pm PT
Calling someone stupid just shuts down the discussion. Doesn't matter if you are correct in your a$$esment. It is better to prove why you think their ideas are false.

Gotta go with Big Mike. Make your arguement if you have a point or are challenging the validity of someone else's arguement. Using "stupid" is not an arguement; it's usually a red flag for the lack of an arguement. It's also a put down and derogatory.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Apr 9, 2015 - 05:42pm PT
Unless they are too unintelligent to understand facts and logic. Or too pig headed to accept facts and logic. There IS a difference.

Well, there really isn't much you can do about that. Insulting someone won't make your life any better though..
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Apr 9, 2015 - 06:08pm PT


Yer all stoopid!

Blah blah blah blah and that's why ..... :-)

End of discussion.

*Insert angry yelling here*

Lol Jim.

pe·jo·ra·tive
pəˈjôrədiv/
adjective
adjective: pejorative
1.
expressing contempt or disapproval.
""permissiveness" is used almost universally as a pejorative term"
synonyms: disparaging, derogatory, denigratory, deprecatory, defamatory, slanderous, libelous, abusive, insulting, slighting; informalbitchy
"his remarks were considered too pejorative for daytime radio"
antonyms: complimentary

Yes. A better more concise term...
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Apr 9, 2015 - 10:16pm PT
i am the new moderator.

so all you freaks better watch it.

i am also the new manager. which means two or more outbursts per week and my people will steal your car.

three or more outbusts and your house burns down,

therefor all that will be left is people without houses or cars, or, dirtbaggers for short, comprende me?

crankster

Trad climber
Apr 10, 2015 - 06:39am PT
Yeah, the evil politics...how's it ever effect climbing???

Petition: Tell elected officials not to sell our forests and wildlands to the highest bidder

In March, the U.S. Senate voted to pave the way for selling tracts of our national forests, wilderness areas and wildlife refuges to states that are eager to open them up to sale or lease for oil and gas drilling, mining and logging, jeopardziing public access.

This move only furthers a disturbing trend in the war on our public lands.

Until last week, this state land-grab fever had been confined to about a dozen state legislatures in the West. Now this extreme idea, propelled by extractive industries, has infected our national government in Washington.

We must stop this madness before it takes hold.

Sign the petition to tell our elected officials not to sell America’s public lands for development.
The Wilderness Society.
Fish Finder

climber
Apr 10, 2015 - 08:05am PT
its hard to believe there are some that are still whining about this and butt hurt

Its just a forum that someone else owns and can do what they want

All you important posters who think life has changed for posterity sake
and that you made huge improvements to your lives and everyone else's


NOTHING HAS CHANGED

admin has waived the wand and the dust has cleared

how has this really effected you?

The only thing that has changed for me is
I wonder why of all people ED had to stand there and stomp his foot? sad
someone who i look up to just seemed a bit immature
when more than likely in time he will continue to add climbing and other related posts
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 10, 2015 - 08:08am PT
Fish it took a young kid to start this forum.
fish it took bad behaviors to ruin it
go figure..
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 10, 2015 - 08:21am PT
Who can I insult to freeze this thread?
Fish Finder

climber
Apr 10, 2015 - 08:25am PT
pyro

its all subjective

I dont think its ruined

I am able to stay in touch with friends new and old . still meeting new people here

Have made a lot of good friends from Canada that I may not have "Oh Canada"

great party this weekend I hope to attend,

All good info , beta , routes , topos , gear review
and some really funny sh#t

The users who feel they can direct and stear this forum for the better are delusional

everything ebb and flows
SweetWilliam

Boulder climber
TheSand,Man
Apr 10, 2015 - 08:53am PT
Its not hard to get FIshfindier
If u go prison lockdown everytime some jerkwad starts goin crazy then one kerkwad can kill anythread anytime. Ed Garcia is right dude u cant just let one ahole do that u gotta kill off the ahole instaed of messing up the reglar peoples back n forth.

like I don't even know this guy pod who thinks hes so smart and bustin on my stuff, try typin fast on a little phone screen smartguy. he personal attacked me but I don't even care. I asked my dad who he is and he said it was lebedo roys subbie and hedont even climb. it would be stupod to lockdown that just because Pod thinks hes so smart and making attacks on me.so Ed is right dude.

Fish Finder

climber
Apr 10, 2015 - 09:20am PT
maybe

hard to tell in infancy as there is rarely change here


i have learned that there are a lot of people who have time for negative sh#t
i try to stay as positive as can be , always


There is just a lot of fear mongering going on
for there have only been a handful of threads that the admin felt didnt suit their needs

everyone was complaining that all the mighty posts were being deleted before when they banned and removed someone
so it seems to me they just came up with a solution that should help them and still save the material

all that freedom of speech sh#t is still there


This f*#kin place is cool has been cool and will be cool till it runs its course
for all good things must end
saa

Social climber
sadly, far away from yos and josh
Apr 10, 2015 - 01:56pm PT
yawn!












































yyaawwwwwnnn...
Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
Apr 10, 2015 - 07:34pm PT
It's getting hot in here so take off all your clothes.
Bill Mc Kirgan

Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Apr 10, 2015 - 07:57pm PT
I blame pie charts


Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
Apr 11, 2015 - 07:12am PT
We could take Canada in about 20 minutes. The ROI would be tremendous. We could insist on all the English land in our hemisphere.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Apr 11, 2015 - 07:21am PT
And sell all that land to the corporations

We're gunna be RICH, I tell ya!
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Apr 13, 2015 - 07:16pm PT
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Apr 13, 2015 - 07:21pm PT
OK, I'm personally attacking locker to get this thread frozen.

Is that yo mama with her legs spread so wide?


The real locker or the fake locker - you tell me, you fools. Count that as a general attack on all you fifty-foot women freaks.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Apr 13, 2015 - 07:41pm PT
Did she just pick of a Vulvo...?
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Apr 13, 2015 - 07:50pm PT
This thing will just not freeze. Maybe all the posters have been drinking anti-freeze?

You'd think that "Mrs. Goulet" instead of "Ms. Goulet" would have been enough.


Anybody out there that can score some Ice-9?


This is how we do it here in Upper Baja. Local boy Ted "cold as ice" Williams.


Will remove on request. Ssome things are just going too far.

http://media.masslive.com/redsoxmonster/photo/tedhead3jpg-309638d3681b80f1_medium.jpg

OK, just got the first request (from a family member). Use judgment in approaching this webpage.
thebravecowboy

climber
the Midcontinent Rift
Apr 13, 2015 - 07:53pm PT
with a name like Smuckers, it has to be good!

so yeah, F*#kers Jelly. Stout!
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Apr 13, 2015 - 07:59pm PT
If you guys are so upset see if you can get a refund.
thebravecowboy

climber
the Midcontinent Rift
Apr 13, 2015 - 08:02pm PT
I spent MY borrowed time on this and you're telling me I can't get it back!!!??

Everything is f*#ked.
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Apr 13, 2015 - 08:11pm PT
This is such a great troll....oh, wait - sorry.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Apr 13, 2015 - 08:23pm PT
Killer troll. One of his best.
thebravecowboy

climber
the Midcontinent Rift
Apr 13, 2015 - 08:32pm PT
that would be His.

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Apr 29, 2015 - 05:47am PT
Dear Forum,

We have added a new administrative policy: freezing threads that have devolved mostly into personal attacks.

This is looking like an excellent decision.

Nice work, Chris.
Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
Apr 29, 2015 - 08:10am PT
Your mom is a handhold.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 29, 2015 - 08:17am PT
Bring back the Gun Debate thread, brah! It was one of the more civilized threads.
Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
Apr 29, 2015 - 08:26am PT
Your mom is a gun.
drunkenmaster

Social climber
santa rosa
Apr 29, 2015 - 08:29am PT
I liked hearing the SuperTaco climber side of political beliefs once in a blue moon but it seemed too easy for some people to go off on other people on the computer since they are not in their face in real life. It's like having road rage from the safe confines of your vehicle when you would never do that to the persons face, maybe. Another good idea + action by CMac imo. Rock Talk should be the fuel that stokes the fire in this campground.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Apr 29, 2015 - 08:34am PT
what are the Topics that have been "frozen"?

I know of only one.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 29, 2015 - 08:35am PT
So do we have a list of frozen threads yet?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 29, 2015 - 08:38am PT
Guns are not allowed in the civilized parts of Marin county.

Civilized debate about income inequality isn't countenanced in Marin, either.
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Apr 29, 2015 - 10:39am PT
Your mom is a gun.


So is your face.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Apr 29, 2015 - 11:37am PT
three or more outbusts and your house burns down,


I had a roommate in my undergraduate days who was getting tired of people interrupting science classes with political tirades. He proposed that if it happened once, they get a pie in the face. If it happened twice, their hair was set on fire (this was, after all, Berkeley), because it was hard to take someone seriously when their hair was burning. I didn't want to tell him that it seemed to have the opposite effect for people facing Blackbeard.

John
crankster

Trad climber
Apr 29, 2015 - 08:45pm PT
Forum Bully rules Supertopo. He makes the rules. Isn't that obvious?
Lynne Leichtfuss

Trad climber
Will know soon
Apr 29, 2015 - 09:29pm PT
It's not that hard to carry on a ruled debate or conversation. Really no need to attack people or their positions.

A few dumb as#$% cut down our victory tree in high school. It was an Orange Tree, our High School was Orange High, and it was planted in the center of our student quad area. They were a few rebellious kids from the senior class. I was a junior and our entire junior class suffered the consequences of their actions. They graduated but we no longer got the rights and privileges they had.

Long story to say it's kinda what's happening here. A few steal the privileges and threads from the rest of us. The great content contained in some of these deleted or frozen threads is lost to us because of the thoughtless actions of a few.

Jess sayin' on a beautiful Wed. night. Cheers, lynnie










+Never take part in serious debate after 6pm
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 30, 2015 - 07:04am PT
Well we have lost some very enjoyable discussions because a couple people do not like the topic. SO they now use this new policy to get rid of the topic. They actually are behaving worse due to your efforts to make thing better here.

Chris I feel for you, generally speaking this policy has made for a more pleasant atmosphere here. However it does appear that it has allowed a couple bullies to simply get anything they want removed.

I don't like being bullied by childish individuals. I really don't like seeing people I know bullied that way either.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Apr 30, 2015 - 07:27am PT
I always assumed both Eve and the garden were elnatural. Although one definitely needed tending to.

COULDN'T agree more with Lynne and clinbski2.
crankster

Trad climber
Apr 30, 2015 - 07:59am PT
Ron starts yet another OT gun "appreciation" thread. Some object. Forum Bully enters (always a bad sign), launches vile tirade, things degenerate. Thread gone.

philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Apr 30, 2015 - 08:03am PT
Yes the complainers seem to have conveniently forgotten the great and rude Quack off that occured.
Maybe a Panty Twist appreciation thread should be started.
cassondra long

Trad climber
las vegas
Apr 30, 2015 - 08:08am PT

THE BIGGEST problem with this forum, front and center. YOU and your guns, guns and more guns...Chris wants a forum that focuses on climbing, not the best caliber for shooting squirrels or why you support open carry or any of your other not-thinly veiled threats.

Actually, This information might com in handy for climbers in Black Velvet Canyon. There are some squirrels there getting mighty fat on the plunder from climbers' packs.
Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
Apr 30, 2015 - 08:12am PT
Your mom is a sport climber.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Apr 30, 2015 - 09:02am PT
looks like P-Macky expressed his opinion. good riddance.
SweetWilliam

Boulder climber
TheSand,Man
Apr 30, 2015 - 09:03am PT
is the smoker duck THE werner braun relally? that dude is a legend of all time I don't believe thats really him posting the stuff here hes too busy being more basadss than anyone you ever see that astroman poster where he runs it out like 100 feet. frikin radness bro that's the coolest stuff ive seen.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Apr 30, 2015 - 09:09am PT
SWEEETZZ Wwilly ,
sees you needs to ask the duck-guy his own self if it is a Merry joke that er' is the heir to the throne of the highest merit
You as a punter will make nice trundle fodder for a duck who is smart attacking st00pid
And you some tomes display the need for a thrashing from all not the least
Werner Braun.



I was writing this and it posted no where
How Queer, ah the universal freeze me!
No Wait where's it ? Is it oh no
It is gone!. . . ???
To bad. . .
It got piss and vinegar butt hurt responses, but still . . . .
she's to telling
that is a very feminine move,
this fickle attempt to get the site to self moderate has failed in it's un announced try
so
May be more than this thread is needed to make the point that we need to
act on the actors
Not freedom of speech and thought

below is what I wanted to add but now,. . . . well,. . . I can not condone deleting.


Apr 30, 2015 - 05:46am PT
I was not any where near the old thread but I lurked and added once to it.
This was the one thread topic that needed not to be frozen.
Not frozen but moderated for hats of azz, We need our guns!
We need our guns for fun and protection and in some minds
For a revolution that may come to pass or it may pass us by, then we will need our guns to stop the armed horde of muslims who, having nuked Israel, will be coming for us, Florida first.

"Son of a Gun
We will have big fun . . . . . . . . . . . . Aiko - Akio!
Shoot'n our guns
On the byuo"

Edit
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 30, 2015 - 10:17am PT
Well Randisi, you are half right.

Bullies do NOT admit to being bullies.
After he posted all manner of vile insults to me on gun threads only to quickly delete and "forget", one poster here needed to be reminded that I had given him a quarter grand for med bills (which he didn't bother to thank me for).

Guess who?

(I'd have more respect for him if he manned up, but it is deny deny deny. I wish there were a way to recover those deleted posts)

climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 30, 2015 - 10:40am PT
Like or not what he did, Philo did not personally attack anyone.

Yes he did. A spam attack to be exact. It was personal. It was provacative. It was designed to destroy the thread. He succeeded.

Plus he doesn't even have the maturity to own up. Not surprising considering it was a very immature action.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Apr 30, 2015 - 10:59am PT

Stock up boys.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Apr 30, 2015 - 11:56am PT
LoLocker that's what I thought they were smiling about.

But your other thread is beginning to get all lovey dovey.
Best get to some slaggin'.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 30, 2015 - 05:02pm PT
Philo you are a liar and a real jerk.

You can't even own up and apologize. It has to be all about you, because you don't care that your behavior has a chilling effect on future donations.

I bet you were a coward as a climber too.

For once locker really hit the nail on the head.

edit
Randisi is right bullies never own it.
Trashman

Trad climber
SLC
Apr 30, 2015 - 05:41pm PT
Eh, own up and appologize for what? Following the letter of the law while defecating on the spirit is what this country is all about these days, right? He's still posting so I'm guessing he stayed in the right side of the line.

And Ron, threatening to withhold your largess to make a point? How very like you, it's been nearly 7 hours since you've used that chestnut

philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Apr 30, 2015 - 06:21pm PT
^^^ LOL


I think CMac has some freezing to do.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 30, 2015 - 06:25pm PT
Ah yes TM the anonymous troll, no guts just like philo.

Just here to add a little poison?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Apr 30, 2015 - 06:29pm PT
Trashman...Is that considered Trash talking..?
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 30, 2015 - 06:34pm PT
RJ no guts, more like rumor mongering.




edit
Yet another unmarked philo edit a few back.
Nooooooo,... he would never post and delete.
Trashman

Trad climber
SLC
Apr 30, 2015 - 06:46pm PT
After he posted all manner of vile insults to me on gun threads only to quickly delete and "forget", one poster here needed to be reminded that I had given him a quarter grand for med bills

Why freeze it, it's not a personal attack, original post is just up thread. A new person can dispense funds as they see fit, and withhold as well, just a pattern I've observed many times over the years, funny to see its still in play.

And Toquervillian(if that is indeed your real name) we've talked plenty over the years and I'm sure you have my real name somewhere, however, in this cyber age, I won't be posting it as my unique surname makes it too easy to google me.

RJ, I'd say indeed it is, lighthearted poking fun w out a serious note in it.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 30, 2015 - 07:05pm PT
My name is NO secret, nor as "uncommon" as yours, but you are still hiding.

The toker villain monicker was given me by jello.
Tell you what, you ask him whether you have given more to climber related causes in the past decade than what I did just last month. Compare notes.

If you have not then post yer name or or sign TFO.
Trashman

Trad climber
SLC
Apr 30, 2015 - 07:22pm PT
Too many replies to edit the above w out screwing up context, but there is an important typo in my earlier post.
A new person can dispense funds as they see fit, and withhold as well, just a pattern I've observed many times over the years, funny to see its still in play.
Sb

Any person can dispense funds as they see fit, and withhold as well, just a pattern I've observed many times over the years, funny to see its still in play.

I was asserting his right to do as he sees fit, with a snide comment about past forum disagreements. Not claiming to be able to match Tokervillian's Contributions to the climbing world, monetary or otherwise.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Apr 30, 2015 - 07:40pm PT
Freezing Forum Topics That Degenerate into Personal Attacks
Something must be wrong with the icemaker.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Apr 30, 2015 - 07:42pm PT
I think we've discussed this ad nauseum.

Maybe we can agree to disagree??

Or does Cmac have to come take your toys away again???
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Apr 30, 2015 - 08:21pm PT
We've watched so many forums slip under the waves in recent years.... Gunks.com... Neice.com... rockclimbing.com... etc...

I'm not sure exactly what triggers the rapid decline but I'd have to guess it's related to what we're seeing here at supertopo.

I can't blame Cmac.... a few nutcases, apparently without jobs, can really ruin a site which leads to over-moderation and then the people who really can have a cogent discussion simply click on different links. Poof!

It's interesting watching the decay.



Lynne Leichtfuss

Trad climber
Will know soon
Apr 30, 2015 - 08:36pm PT
Yeah, it's like a caustic mix of a few that throw the toxicity out there that negatively affects the Forum and its posters.

If you disagree, hey, just say I disagree and let the folk know why. You can be "colorful" just not nasty. Jess throwin' it out there. lynnie
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Apr 30, 2015 - 09:29pm PT
The gun thread part 2 was destined to aggravate and be dropped accordingly by design. That Phil decided to ride his hard on into the fray, then have it dinged down with a soup spoon by those nursing other opinions, equals a proper discussion.

I agree that what Phil did was wrong. I always welcome discussion, but when it turns to bickering, it seems rather pointless to continue down that path. Especially when cmac has specifically stated that such behaviour is what he is trying to avoid.

Jim - in case you missed this on the philo thread.
Apr 30, 2015 - 01:24pm PT
Phil- While I like and respect you, I find what you did yesterday, akin to walking into a biker bar and yelling, "Motorbikes are lame!". A valid opinion to be sure, but one meant to illicit a negative response.

Why not post your thoughts, maybe even tell your story so that those of us who haven't heard it before can empathize better with your position and move on to the more important topics you came back for? Instead of bumping a thread you don't like, bump the ones you do!

It would seem that Chris has no problem with discussing any topic here, as long as it doesn't disolve into bickering. Instead of antagonizing others about a particular topic of discussion, why not start your own topic, which is more suited to the discussion you wish to have?

Past experiences have obviously tainted your interactions with some people here. While I completly understand that, it is up to the better man to decide when to bury the hatchet.

You obviously feel Ron isn't worth your time. Why engage him then?
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Apr 30, 2015 - 10:22pm PT
Dis agree or Dat agree?
WBraun

climber
Apr 30, 2015 - 10:24pm PT
Philo

Maybe just call it day, huh.

Holy fuking sh!t, over a 120 posts.

Do you really think you know WTF you're doing?
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Apr 30, 2015 - 11:34pm PT
Actually Werner believe it or not I do know exactly what I'm doing. Presenting information on things I find important That and for what ever reason you care to imagine I find that getting the exercise in verbal succinctness and manual dexterity I experience here helpful when I need to write for real and have a publisher explaining to me the meaning of the term deadline.
I should thank everyone for sparking my intellectual word play and physical connection to the keyboard. They'd prolly just pooh on the thank you. But it really does help stir the free flow style I write in. Is that passive aggressive or passive creative or aggressive creative?
What are you doing?

Man I gotta tell you my WPM have doubled since a day ago. Thanks everyone.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Apr 30, 2015 - 11:43pm PT
hey there say, ... oh my, i was away from the ol' taco, cleaning the yard, in the warm spring sun (wow, it finally SHINED OR SHONE/SHOWN here, today) ... and was spring-undusting-the-house, last night, just before i DID the yard, today, and:

hmm, there MUST have been an earthquake here at the ol' taco...
as there are many 'aftershocks' all about...

oh my... hope things are settling good now...
and that folks are safe, :)


and as to this, tami quote:
Disagreeable disagreements are disagreeable to those who disagree. In disagreeing, it's disagreeably disagreeable when disagreeing with those who disagree.

wow, tami, :D ... i love the word-play, as to making sentences this way...
:)
very good clever fun stuff, and yet, simple and to the point, in a
good way...
i JUST sent an email out that was a 'many M' sentence...
making many-and-much mish-mash of words, for a fine sentence OF 'M' fun...


thanks for sharing, also, to lynnie...
:)


PS:
don't know what started the earthquake, but i send well wishes to
all concerned... :)

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 1, 2015 - 12:11am PT
To me, it is sad what is recently happening here. I have benefited a lot from lurking many threads and engaging in discussion on some others. My own perspectives have been changed and nuanced by the cogent contributions of a few, and I hope that I have had at least some small similar effect on a few.

But when an entire thread can be so quickly destroyed by the wanton and intentionally "provocative" behavior of a tiny subset of our community, this present "moderation" approach really has then granted inordinate power into the hands of that subset.

For my part, I am confident that in the future I will invest very little time into crafting thoughtful contributions (it really is time-consuming to make efforts to genuinely contribute instead of engaging in "drive-by shootings"). Others that feel as I do about discussion and thoughtful contributions to the same will likely also cease to contribute or will radically reduce the effort they exert.

But that just means that the content of the "discussions" will become even more shallow and "drive-by" than it often already is. Being "flip" and "clever" quickly gets old, both for the "contributor" and for the reader.

Being "civil" is a necessary but not sufficient condition to a meaningful and worthwhile discussion on a contentious topic. Contributions are usually best when people feel that the environment itself is "stable" enough that their efforts are meaningful.

I would definitely prefer to see "moderation" amount to one or at most two warnings and then banning offenders. Sure, it's whack-a-mole. Sure, it's time-consuming. But so is the present approach. At least the former approach takes power away from the offenders rather than granting it solely to them!

And either the present approach carefully contemplates when "the line has been crossed," or it smacks of arbitrariness. Of course, the same can be said of the banning approach.

Or maybe CMac just wants the whole thing to morph into a truly, strictly "climbing related" site. If so, the "forums" will quickly go the way of rockclimbing.com. That's less traffic. That's less advertising. That's less of everything worthwhile about the forums.

I hope that this forum can be maintained in a condition that it is "stable" and truly worth engaging with. It's no "virtual campfire," but it's pretty good in its own right.
Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
May 1, 2015 - 06:57am PT
It's not how I want it.
It's how HE wants it.
And how he's going to get it.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 1, 2015 - 09:28am PT
Your mom gets it.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 1, 2015 - 09:36am PT
Hahahahahaa!!
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 1, 2015 - 08:44pm PT
Which Philo thread is the one with the new gun discussion on it?

I got a question for Ron about fading eyesight making it tough to focus on the front sight while shooting pistols. I want to find out what folks are using to compensate, and I don't have all night to sort through the pile of similar threads.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 1, 2015 - 09:00pm PT
Reading glasses work to read. But now, the sight at the end of a handgun isn't quite far enough away from my face to focus on anymore.

I can read the fine print on the target itself - ten meters away - but I can't get a sharp look at the front blade.

I don't think a dot-sight would work, because that's even closer to my face. Besides, it's just one more thing to break or go out of adjustment.

A longer barrel is only going to work for a limited time, or I'd simply switch to that.

What do far-sighted folks use to see their sights? Squint? Bifocals?
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
May 1, 2015 - 09:32pm PT
if you can't see to shoot you should retire the shootin' arms...
jonnyrig

climber
May 19, 2015 - 12:33pm PT
Another one bites the dust.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2620532/Ontario-Walmart
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
May 19, 2015 - 01:38pm PT
Another one bites the dust.

Well, that sucks. There was actually some good being done in that thread. Too bad a couple of the Ron-haters couldn't stop themselves from being uncivil.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 19, 2015 - 02:17pm PT
Huh!
You guys sound like the Talhiban telling the cartoonist to shut up or else. Lmao

There's learning to do in every thread.

This one was how to spell; H-y-p-p-o-c-r-a-t
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 19, 2015 - 02:42pm PT
This moderation policy change has been a good direction for ST.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
May 19, 2015 - 03:04pm PT
Well he wants it he gets it. And if he keeps doing it he'll follow his posts into final oblivion.

I'll be sorry to see him go but I won't say goodbye when he disappears. Its his doing and doesnt affect me or this forum.

Too late to say goodbye Dingus, he's already gone.

Poof! Vanished, along with all his posts.
labrat

Trad climber
Erik O. Auburn, CA
May 19, 2015 - 03:07pm PT
All of them? Bummer. He knows and passed on quite a bit of history.
labrat

Trad climber
Erik O. Auburn, CA
May 19, 2015 - 03:11pm PT
I'm guessing he requested his posts be removed. Pure speculation on my part.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
May 19, 2015 - 03:55pm PT
All of them? Bummer. He knows and passed on quite a bit of history.


Stop f*#king deleting everything when someone gets the whack.

Unless they ask.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
May 19, 2015 - 04:14pm PT
Since the departure of The Chief a few weeks ago

Whoa!

Did The Chief suffer a terminal illness or was he (finally) banned?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 19, 2015 - 04:17pm PT
Nobody left to drive the clown car. Or ride in it.

Maybe we can get back to selling two D5 hammers at a grand a pop.




oh who am I kidding?!?!111


Edit: maybe #100 is up for sale. Do I hear elevenhundy?!?!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
May 19, 2015 - 08:29pm PT
lmao...
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 19, 2015 - 09:18pm PT
Locker! I salute your photo & your finely honed sense of humor!
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa y Perrito Ruby
May 20, 2015 - 08:28am PT
Times change

JUSTICE IS SERVED
102-year-old woman denied PhD under Nazi rule to receive her degree





http://theweek.com/speedreads/555770/102yearold-woman-denied-phd-under-nazi-rule-receive-degree

or

http://www.wsj.com/articles/from-nazi-germany-a-tale-of-redemption-1431576062
couchmaster

climber
May 20, 2015 - 08:33am PT


Ron's not gonna get his Phd sir:-) But I wish his climbing related posts were not deleted. He posted a bunch of archane Nevada climbing and some old stuff with Danno at Cave Rock kind of things.

Great photoshop work up there Locker!
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
May 20, 2015 - 08:37am PT
Deleting climbing info is so hot right now!!
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
May 20, 2015 - 08:43am PT
Of course not. But assholiness can be deleted without burning everything else...
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa y Perrito Ruby
May 20, 2015 - 08:48am PT
You know, if someone doesn't want to read about his holiness ...

Then he or she can always turn the other cheek (which has the same impact as looking the other way and not being forced to read it).

That ain't no gang_sign, that's the peace_sign.

Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
May 20, 2015 - 12:51pm PT
That's funny.. Before the kiwi all they had to do was delete the objectionable material (usually the last post the person made) and hit the ban button. Barring access to that avatar. All the old posts were left for others to read in the future.

Obviously historical record is no longer a concern.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
May 20, 2015 - 12:57pm PT
Big Mike if you read RJ's post it is clear that Ron requested his stuff be removed if he got banned. Management complied. No foul, no harm.
If people want to be upset with the removal of climbing content then they should direct their displeasure at Ron. He is the one who chose to take his bat and ball and go home.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
May 20, 2015 - 01:14pm PT
If that is indeed the case, then i am wrong. Thanks for the beta Phil.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
May 20, 2015 - 01:17pm PT
In this case, that is the case. RJ's responses are clear.
Hope all is well with you Big Mike.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 20, 2015 - 05:43pm PT
The "campfire" is doing some serious sputtering and fizzling.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
May 20, 2015 - 06:39pm PT
I'm sorry Jim but WTF?
Are you 12 years old or something.
Is there a connection between your random rambling and a coherent point of some kind.
You're equating me with undereducated financially distressed Southern TeaPublicans who vote for the Billionaire class hoping for some golden showers? Oops I meant "Trickle Down" economics.
Should I use fewer syllables and shorter sentences for you.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
May 20, 2015 - 06:48pm PT
MY condescension for poor people? Really? Care to expand on that assumption?
Because you are probably the only person on the planet that would form that opinion of me.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
May 20, 2015 - 06:54pm PT
I have deep compassion for the poor and down trodden which is exactly why I have such contempt for the willing ignorance of the heartless Tea Party types.
atchafalaya

Boulder climber
May 20, 2015 - 06:57pm PT
I try to have deep compassion with mindless morons arguing about nothing on the internet. But you two make that really tough.
Psilocyborg

climber
May 20, 2015 - 06:59pm PT
I try to have compassion for everyone. Philo, apparently you only care for those that share your political ideology. Thats what makes you a total as#@&%e.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
May 20, 2015 - 07:05pm PT
What I find funny is you who think this is about silencing difference of opinion as if there was a secret cabal of libtards intent on squashing dissent.

It's about content. The banned got booted because of content.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
May 20, 2015 - 07:11pm PT
Have you paid the slightest attention to the agenda the Republicans have been pushing in the Southern States? Those citizens voted for those people who were not ever going to work for the common good. How would you describe that reality. Informed citizens, educated electorate, insightful Americans?

And yet behind all your complaining about me lies the double standard of your classification of me.
Like I said are you 12 or something?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
May 20, 2015 - 07:37pm PT
Jim, don't bother sparring with the likes of people like Philo. It's useless trying to appeal to the ideals they espouse: tolerance, fairness, social justice, diversity. These guys like Craig Fry, Crankster, Philo and numerous others here are more low level political operatives than climbers of old or even present. They are cheap hypocrits who robotically practice advancement of an agenda that has been brainwashed into what little brain tissue they posess. Last on their minds are the ideals they espouse or basic morality like truth.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
May 20, 2015 - 07:47pm PT
Agreed Bubbles, but that was before his mind was washed and his figuative lips adapted for remote control.
Tobia

Social climber
Denial
May 20, 2015 - 07:51pm PT
Just for the fun of it, I'm posting a description of myself in the terms offered up for those from my area of the country.

I'm Southern, highly educated, financially distressed, insightful and didn't vote for "teapubilicans". I forgot to mention I am a citizen.

↓East of the Chattahoochee River, west of the Atlantic Ocean and below the Mason-Dixon Line.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa y Perrito Ruby
May 20, 2015 - 07:53pm PT
^where you from?

[Click to View YouTube Video]


up against the wall redneck mother? :)
Tobia

Social climber
Denial
May 20, 2015 - 07:56pm PT
seems that way zb, but i'm trying add a dogleg in the otherwise southerly direction of this thread. North by Northwest?
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
May 20, 2015 - 08:09pm PT
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
May 20, 2015 - 08:44pm PT
Generalize much?
atchafalaya

Boulder climber
May 20, 2015 - 08:45pm PT
If I have learned anything from being on supertopo for a number of years, it would be that there is always one loudmouth, ignorant, know-it-all , opinionated as#@&%e who posts constantly, with no regard for others use and enjoyment of this forum. As soon as one disappears, it's like God shits another out to tell us how we should think, or feel, or act, or care. Always uneducated. Completely uninformed. Basically f*#king clueless.

Fattrad. Rokjox. Ron. Philo. Leb. And on and on....

Please, stfu.

Thank you.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
May 20, 2015 - 08:53pm PT
Crankster you take a lot of heat for the same reasons I do. Mostly gross misinterpretation.
Hang in there man.
crankster

Trad climber
May 20, 2015 - 08:55pm PT
Ha! Thanks philo.
And you're not misinterpreted. You are right on and clear as a bell. What's being exposed here is just how over-sensitive and intolerant a certain sector of the forum is. They are just shattered when you disagree with their world view. Weird.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
May 20, 2015 - 09:16pm PT
Seriously Hocking, get a grip.

If some one is a better chess player and you choose to challenge them, congratulate them on their victory don't blame them for your loss.


And Crankster I have to agree the Werner's infatuation with you is pretty creepy and disturbing. It borders on cyber stalking.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
May 20, 2015 - 09:31pm PT
Aw so precious.
jonnyrig

climber
May 21, 2015 - 09:16am PT
You know, philo, you openly admitted to being an as#@&%e in the gun thread. You even apologized for it. Don't play innocent. If it's a chess game to you, then you definitely have an end result you're gunning for, and a specific target in mind. You are actively contributing to the demise of specific people on this forum.
Crankster has basically admitted to the same; except he justifies his targeting of specific individuals by calling them bullies.
For both of you, it's obvious that you're provoking people for their specific reactions of lashing out against you.
Having participated in the same sort of actions back when arguing with jhedge, I'll tell you I regret that now. It was wrong of me. So congrats on your part of the current situation, I'm sure you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

p-head... what's a sub-human?
bit'er ol' guy

climber
the past
May 21, 2015 - 09:40am PT
now what?

what else is there?

really?

Maybe I'll have to get a life, go climbing.
this just in

climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
May 21, 2015 - 10:05am PT
I am disgusted with this forum. Thank you Crankster and Philo for making everything about yourselves. The climbing community just had two major losses and this sh#t show is somehow more important. You guys are discracing the climbing community and I'm disappointed that the grieving have to deal with your childish behavior instead of seeing stories and memories about Dean Potter and Graham Hunt. Give it a rest.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
May 31, 2015 - 06:25pm PT
jstan

climber
May 31, 2015 - 09:56pm PT

Ah! Now I am OK again.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
May 31, 2015 - 10:08pm PT
May 31, 2015 - 09:07pm PT
^^^^^^
Two-timing limp dick! I hope your rash never heals
.

I wonder who I'm supposed to be two timing???



Comin' to get ya.
sasha Cohen

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe CA
May 31, 2015 - 10:55pm PT
philo... you think yer hot shyt...but yer just cold diyahreeeerahhhh!
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
May 31, 2015 - 11:18pm PT
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jun 1, 2015 - 12:09am PT
I can't help but find it f*#king hilarious that a thread about freezing forum topics for personal attacks and a thread that suggests that political posters go elsewhere has degenerated in to....a thread with political rants and personal attacks. Irony, thy name is the Taco. As Burchey says - LOL.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 06:40am PT
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Jun 1, 2015 - 09:35am PT
Not at all funny...
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Jun 1, 2015 - 09:45am PT
Philo, I've never attacked you but you've been hiitin new lows dude. Mutual friend has put in good words for ya but I dunno.............

Arne


ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Jun 1, 2015 - 09:46am PT
And yes, Religion/Science thread needs to die.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Jun 1, 2015 - 09:54am PT
You or the mods, Arne. It won't be the end of it. Someone else will start it again. They just can't help themselves.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 10:01am PT
Excuse me Arne but if you are going to make a statement like this you'd should provide examples. Please feel free to scroll through both my posting history and compare it to the posts of those addressing me. Then please explain what "new lows"


Jun 1, 2015 - 09:45am PT
Philo, I've never attacked you but you've been hiitin new lows dude. Mutual friend has put in good words for ya but I dunno.............

Arne

If you think I posted that pic in jest then you judge without knowledge Of me or my family.

There is nothing funny about the pic I posted. Too many mangled soldiers are left to fend for themselves after serving their country. Nor is there anything in error with it. I have yet to hear a Democrat, Liberal or Progressive expressing the utter disdain for the poor and down and out that regularly babbles out of the mouths of Republican conservatives, Libertarians and Tea Partiers. It was also a timely post in that it was just commented on how this thread had become the antithesis of what it was intended to be.



Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.

Jun 1, 2015 - 12:09am PT
I can't help but find it f*#king hilarious that a thread about freezing forum topics for personal attacks and a thread that suggests that political posters go elsewhere has degenerated in to....a thread with political rants and personal attacks. Irony, thy name is the Taco. As Burchey says - LOL.

If you can bother to read back several pages then tell me who has been sinking to new lows of personal attacks?


crankster

Trad climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 10:06am PT
philo, let it slide...I'm sure you know the forum is dominated by older, white guys; hence the conservative/tea party leanings.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 10:09am PT
Crankster have you noticed how much has slid by already.
I responded to Arne's comment only because it is so off the wall and I thought he was a thoughtful intelligent man.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa y Perrito Ruby
Jun 1, 2015 - 10:20am PT
Cryogenically speaking can we please just bring back L. Ron Hubbard, Ted Williams, and Ron Anderson?


THE BAD



THE GOOD



Take it - cosmic, locker?


k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jun 1, 2015 - 11:49am PT
And yes, Religion/Science thread needs to die.

Usually I open the threads I want to read. For some reason, I never opened that one, and it's not once bothered me.



So, is the forum all better now?
jonnyrig

climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 12:05pm PT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/19/food-stamps-military_n_3462465.html

Still don't like your style philo. Maybe you could post some climbing content, of you personally climbing something. That might help.

Here, for the sake of contrast, ha ha ha:

http://nationalreport.net/new-study-reveals-89-percent-food-stamps-squandered-junk-food/
Majid_S

Mountain climber
Karkoekstan
Jun 1, 2015 - 12:17pm PT
I been attacked here and need proper protection
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 1, 2015 - 12:21pm PT
I think a country that wages war should have both of these requirements going for it:

*Those who are in leadership decisions to go must either serve themselves in battle &/or an immediate family member

*Those who serve and are significantly injured get their medical bills paid for the rest of their lives, and are provided with a reasonable style of living.


If such requirements were in place, I bet there wouldn't be many wars.
coolrockclimberguy69

climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 12:26pm PT
Dr Lauren Streicher says if you get sand in your vagina it is important to rinse out right away in order to prevent an infection.

Medicated D#@&%e Concentrate, Povidone-Iodine, Fragrance Free, 8 fl oz 5 pack

She added that you need to continue rinsing with water until all the sand is removed.

http://www.wellbuzz.com/dr-oz-womens-health-2/dr-oz-remove-sand-vagina-vurp/
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 12:48pm PT
Johnnyrig in your fervency have you over looked the ton of climbing content I've posted all these years? Why don't you talk to those who have been delighting in rude-shoting me about their climbing posts?
If you are equating climbing resume with value of posters words you may want to rethink that.
Perhaps it is you who spends too much time on OT threads to notice any other content. If for any reason,including irrational disdain of me personally, someone has a problem with the amputee vet I posted then I'd suggest they have afar greater problem than merely hating on me.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 1, 2015 - 12:53pm PT
I think a country that wages war should have both of these requirements going for it:

*Those who are in leadership decisions to go must either serve themselves in battle &/or an immediate family member

*Those who serve and are significantly injured get their medical bills paid for the rest of their lives, and are provided with a reasonable style of living.

If such requirements were in place, I bet there wouldn't be many wars.

What a lovely sentiment.
jonnyrig

climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 12:54pm PT
Simply don't like ya.
Have a nice day.
jonnyrig

climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 01:17pm PT
Yep, pretty much. In fact, I don't really care what he's posted in terms of climbing content. Thanks for clarifying that.
I'm sure it won't win me any favorites, and you know what? Meh.

Philo:
Johnnyrig in your fervency have you over looked the ton of climbing content I've posted all these years? Why don't you talk to those who have been delighting in rude-shoting me about their climbing posts?
If you are equating climbing resume with value of posters words you may want to rethink that.
Perhaps it is you who spends too much time on OT threads to notice any other content. If for any reason,including irrational disdain of me personally, someone has a problem with the amputee vet I posted then I'd suggest they have afar greater problem than merely hating on me.

Yep. Didn't bother to even look at your climbing content. Not really interested.
Rude-shoting over climbing posts? So what... they post climbing content, and somehow post derogatory commentary about you in it? Weird.
Climbing resume... So you're old and crusty and I'm just a noob. That about sum up what you think of me? Sounds like what you're saying. That, or you think I just haven't attained a high enough level of climbing content around here to justify my existence and participation in this site. Do you have some other meaning you were trying to insinuate there?
I haven't noticed any other content besides the off-topic content? You're accusing me of that? Dude, you've gone off the deep end in the gun threads too homie. I'd go back and quote your apology for being an as#@&%e; but it's gone.
Irrational disdain for you? No... it's rather more thought out than I should bother to spend any time on.
As for the amputee vet you posted, I have no problem with that whatsoever. It's a fact of war that some of our servicemen and women come back wounded, or not at all. We don't spend enough on rehabilitation, counseling, or support in general on them. They deserve better. Apparently, other people don't get your point. And perhaps you could make your point in a better fashion; but that's not what you chose to do.
Here's the thing: you are not a victim. Neither am I. We choose to post as we do, and try to argue our way out of the consequences, apparently.
Difference is, I'll admit it. You seem to think it's "other people" who have a problem with you, for some unknown reason you just can't seem to grasp.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 01:27pm PT
Well then don't obfuscate by saying I should post up climbing content. So like me you don't really fret what some others think. You should consider yourself every bit as permitted to tell me how, what, where and when I can post as I'm sure you would want me to be telling you.

Look climbing content.

I'm not insinuating anything jrig. By your own words you've acknowledged your beef with me is nothing more substantive than my being rude to your homie - a poster who's signal to noise ratio exceeded virtually every other forum user - on his off topic and ill advised fetish thread.

My point was that you probably ought not ask for what you neither want nor have any interest in. You made the issue as an attemp to delegitimize me. Because you don't like me.
But we agree on Vet issues and dig climbing and probably a dozen other things.
I know nothing of what you have done in climbing and I really don't care.



Edited to comment to Nad69Dog;
The fact that this thread still rides the rails while I am the primary recipient of flung monkey poo should make it clear that I am not running crying to management. I could care less what the chimps fling at me it only exposes their own vulnerabilities.
jonnyrig

climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 01:31pm PT
Like I said, have a nice day.
Mad69Dog

Ice climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 01:40pm PT
"anyone stop to consider that The Macster might be a climate denying Republican tired of sitting idly by while a bunch of blue lefty eco terrorists run rampant in his virtual house?.....nah....couldn't be."

Still loling on this. I'm surprised this one hasn't been locked. Y'all need to try harder.
jonnyrig

climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 01:53pm PT
Philo:
Johnnyrig in your fervency have you over looked the ton of climbing content I've posted all these years? Why don't you talk to those who have been delighting in rude-shoting me about their climbing posts?
If you are equating climbing resume with value of posters words you may want to rethink that.
Perhaps it is you who spends too much time on OT threads to notice any other content. If for any reason,including irrational disdain of me personally, someone has a problem with the amputee vet I posted then I'd suggest they have afar greater problem than merely hating on me.

I'm not insinuating anything jrig

Ah yes, I see how that works.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jun 1, 2015 - 01:55pm PT
You two need to tie in together....Philo knows the Black Canyon. I'll take pictures.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 01:55pm PT
No, no you don't!


I also posted.

I'm not insinuating anything jrig. By your own words you've acknowledged your beef with me is nothing more substantive than my being rude to your homie - a poster who's signal to noise ratio exceeded virtually every other forum user - on his off topic and ill advised fetish thread.

My point was that you probably ought not ask for what you neither want nor have any interest in. You made the issue as an attemp to delegitimize me. Because you don't like me.
But we agree on Vet issues and dig climbing and probably a dozen other things.
I know nothing of what you have done in climbing and I really don't care.



Look climbing content.

BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jun 1, 2015 - 02:01pm PT
I think that this is working. The front page is almost all on topic, or at least interesting topics, and hopefully all of those old guys who got sick of this place and left will come back. It was really cool there for a while.
jonnyrig

climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 02:02pm PT
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 02:16pm PT
Hey jrig FYI i don't hate you because you love your guns. I'd still listen to yours and any others opinions on subjects but maybe not rope management. But chastising me for speaking truth to power and countering lies with facts is lame. The root of the vocal minorities issues with me stem from my relentlessness in exposing lies and BS. so be it. Don't like me don't read me.
jonnyrig

climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 02:32pm PT
You're free to stay out of the gun threads too, naturally. You, however, felt compelled to spread your truth in contrary fashion to the theme of the thread that got sh#t-canned. I fully believe you did that with knowing intent. Therein lies the issue. Having accomplished that goal, you then apologized for your actions, while still maintaining that you'd simply taken the high road. It's a load of crap, and you know it. And you still take the path of the victim, bearing no responsibility, and claiming it's simply exposing lies and BS. You had no business there. You don't like a thread, don't post there.
crankster

Trad climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 02:35pm PT
"Namaste, you neurotic, self-righteous bs'er"...too funny. You migrated to a thread warning about personal attacks to attack someone.

Hang in there, philo. You didn't come here to get additions for your Christmas card list, I assume.

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jun 1, 2015 - 03:09pm PT
Philo, rule number 1..... never get between a "man" and his gun fetish. Let them wank their triggers to their hearts delight.
jonnyrig

climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 03:21pm PT
Fetish? Typical.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 03:59pm PT
Donini that's what this hate fest is really about. A handful, and I mean a small handful, of posters are tweaked to the breaking point because I made fun of their guns. That's it.
Sad mono dimensional posters who cant see their hypocrisy through their feigned outrage.



Look climber content.
crankster

Trad climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 04:11pm PT
Can't they start another gun thread???
jonnyrig

climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 04:24pm PT
You soooo missed the point dude.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 04:28pm PT
No you missed the boat.
John M

climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 04:29pm PT
You soooo missed the point dude.

par for the course..



But he is right about one thing, that Tad dude is a major big time hater. Someone should ban that dude because thats all he ever does..


eye roll for those who missed the sarcasm…
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 04:46pm PT
More climber content.


Hardly Visible

Social climber
Llatikcuf WA
Jun 1, 2015 - 04:52pm PT
now boys I usually stay outa this stuff but...


and locker I think we need a philo version of this...


Moose need I remind you where postin up about boobs leads...

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2057699&tn=20
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 04:58pm PT
Hocking don't you mean to say you stopped by to fling poo?

What don't you gun loving Philo haters take some time to peruse my Trip Reports and many many photos that I've contributed to this site over the years I've been here.
I know it may be difficult since it consists of climbing and climbers of a higher caliber than your pop guns can handle.





John M

climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 05:16pm PT
Tad..

LOL.. perfect

Edit: yours too Cosmeeek!
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 05:24pm PT

Go ahead and say what ever derogatory comments you want about me but keep your ignorant misogynistic statements to yourselves when in comes to my friend Jona. Not only does she have a far stronger climbing resume than half the posters here she has friends in high places.


If you would denigrate her for making a living as a model using what assets she has then you might as well condemn the singer for their voice or the cabinet maker for their hands.


And FYI the funky neck scarf I am wearing isn't a fashion statement it is covering the spinal fusion neck brace I was wearing in Ouray that year.

Warning more climbing content.



philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 05:53pm PT
Cosmic do I have to scroll back a few pages and copy and paste the post because you can't be bothered to find out wtf is really going on. It's not the first time posters have taken swipes at Jona for her posed pics. They don't know her or anything about her but they judge her from their ignorance. In many ways the same towards me.
So crawl off my leg.

Here it is from earlier today since I know you won't do any fact checking when knee jerking is so convenient.

scrubbing bubbles

Trad climber
...inside the Sultana's hot cleansing doosh

May 31, 2015 - 09:15pm PT
I see dead people.


....and I also see dark roots. 2 posts up, that chick is a bottle blond, I guarantee ya!


...and yet.....and yet.......crackers in bed, etc etc

You know cosmic you really dicked yourself to insignificance.

zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa y Perrito Ruby
Jun 1, 2015 - 05:59pm PT
And to think it was just a month ago that:

Philo

Maybe just call it day, huh.

Holy fuking sh!t, over a 120 posts.

Do you really think you know WTF you're doing?
Actually Werner believe it or not I do know exactly what I'm doing. Presenting information on things I find important That and for what ever reason you care to imagine I find that getting the exercise in verbal succinctness and manual dexterity I experience here helpful when I need to write for real and have a publisher explaining to me the meaning of the term deadline.
I should thank everyone for sparking my intellectual word play and physical connection to the keyboard. They'd prolly just pooh on the thank you. But it really does help stir the free flow style I write in. Is that passive aggressive or passive creative or aggressive creative?
What are you doing?

Man I gotta tell you my WPM have doubled since a day ago. Thanks everyone.

Not sure where the numbers are from, but it looks like about 37 to 6 on this thread.

"It's good though"
-Bruce Philips re: "Moose Turd Pie"

Bruce BTW, held very strong opinions, but was almost universally liked and appreciated.

.


philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 06:07pm PT
I like checking out my detractors contributions to this site.
Their trip reports, their photos and their signal to noise ratio.
Very informative not too interesting.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 1, 2015 - 06:39pm PT
Just a quick observation, Philo. You keep saying "climbing content," but I don't see any actual climbing. I've seen you sitting, standing, buried in a snowbank, etc. But so far, no actual climbing.

LOL... do you actually climb, or do you just get near climbs (and other climbers) and call that "climbing"?
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 06:40pm PT
You mean that's not climbing?
John M

climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 06:42pm PT
Its going to be way too funny if we get this thread frozen. Keep em coming Philo.. you da man.

Climbing content excuses everything. LOL
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 1, 2015 - 06:42pm PT
You mean that's not climbing?

Okay, I guess it "could" be climbing, like climbing a (short) set of stairs or out of bed.

Or, perhaps climbing the ladder of the climbing hierarchy by physical proximity to real climbers.

I don't know. I'm not the guy to draw hard lines on these sorts of things.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jun 1, 2015 - 06:43pm PT
I need to jump in here. Philo does climb. He has climbed extensively in the Black Canyon....that gentleman is climbing.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 06:46pm PT
Well John M regardless of your opinion of me if you'd bother to take a look I'm not the one dishing out personal attacks. So if this thread gets frozen
it like the others will not be my doing.

But you kids keep it up.

Like I said Jim I like to check out the site contributions of my detractors.


You want climbing content check out my contributions before appearing silly.
John M

climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 06:49pm PT
Jim.. no one is saying he doesn't climb. Or that he doesn't provide climbing content. They are trying to say that climbing content doesn't excuse bitchyness/as#@&%ery. He says over and over that he takes the high road, but like LEB, he just doesn't get it. Then if you call him on it, he calls you a hater. Or even gives you a sad sack halfassed apology at the same time trying to demean you.
John M

climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 06:50pm PT
No Philo, you don't do personal attacks. You just sneer, and lump people together as haters..
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jun 1, 2015 - 06:55pm PT
It's obvious....an athlete like Caitlin only goes for real climbers.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 06:57pm PT
Oh for christ's sake John either prove your point with a logical argument and verifiable facts or STFU,
John M

climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 06:59pm PT
LOL.. sure thing Philo… I'll get right on that.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jun 1, 2015 - 07:03pm PT
You just sneer, and lump people together as haters.
So how does that make philo any worse than about 1/2 of the yo-yos around here?
John M

climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 07:04pm PT
It don't, but he keeps claiming he takes the high road. Just calling him on his bullsh#t..
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa y Perrito Ruby
Jun 1, 2015 - 07:04pm PT
locker and donini for the double-header (did I say that?) win!
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 07:04pm PT
Then prove it or quit calling it.

Since I returned to active posting this year I've made no personal attacks nor have I used rude language. It's a fact.
John M

climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 07:05pm PT
proved multiple times. You just don't get it. Very LEBish
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 07:11pm PT
No john nothing has been "proven" once or many times.
You just have a bee in your bonnet. Just like when the conservatives would claim something ignorant over and over again no matter how many times they were shown the facts.
They would blurt out something as inane as "Obummer is the most corrupt president ever" with no proof or facts to back them up but like you they always claimed its been proven many times. That was the classic SOP of homie Rong. You don't like me getting in people's faces with facts OK.


Kramer even if that internet meme is set up the painful reality is that food stamp assistance as well as homelessness and suicide are at an all time and depressingly high level in the armed services right now. It is also a truth that the republicans are the force behind both sending them into harms way and cutting their benefits.

Now what is your problem with a poster boy soldier meme if it's based on the reality?
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 07:19pm PT
Oh boy.
A lot of you rock chuckers don't realize you are living in glass houses.


But I'm happy to do my part keeping you wrapped up here and allowing more of the rest of the forum to de clutter.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa y Perrito Ruby
Jun 1, 2015 - 07:28pm PT
it's getting harder and harder to pick through this thing for the funny sh!t.

GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jun 1, 2015 - 07:31pm PT
I like Philo...
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 07:33pm PT
Thank you GDavis. Is it a coincidence that you, like Donini, and unlike my detractors have actually have contributed a sizable heap of trip reports pics and quality climbing content?

Lack of a sense of humor is a common problem on some threads.
Right up there with reading comprehension difficulties.
this just in

climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
Jun 1, 2015 - 07:38pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 07:39pm PT
Why cosmic? Because wounded and abandoned soldiers aren't a reality in your universe.
Or because Republican politicians aren't cutting support and benefits for vets?
Or because I hurt your gun's feelings?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 1, 2015 - 07:50pm PT
I need to jump in here.

Why do you feel the need? None of this stuff matters. Remember?
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 07:51pm PT
So do I so what's your problem?
I want to support them all not just my family members who have and are serving.
So ho look in a mirror.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jun 1, 2015 - 07:52pm PT
Thank you GDavis. Is it a coincidence that you, like Donini, and unlike my detractors have actually have contributed a sizable heap of trip reports pics and quality climbing content?


haha nahhhh I just choose to know you by the stuff that I like - if people judged me based solely on the things we disagree on, I sure wouldn't have many friends... you're a good dude and you are an active member of the community with a lot of good to say.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jun 1, 2015 - 07:52pm PT
Philo reminds me of a spoiled child.

GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jun 1, 2015 - 08:05pm PT
Holy sh#t you guys. Relax.
crankster

Trad climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 08:06pm PT
Best freeze this hate-fest. What a grumpy bunch of old men.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jun 1, 2015 - 08:13pm PT
Crankster...keep an eye out for dead fish under your car seat...
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jun 1, 2015 - 08:14pm PT
Who the hell is Moose Jenner ...?
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 08:20pm PT
I've never met nor know anything of BrendaPuff and BP knows nothing of me. Not sure why she/ he gets off on humping my leg so. My brother never sent anything to BP she/he is just a liar. BP reposted something from ST 2012 about Obama Derangement Syndrome. My brother is clearly the lunatic in the exchange.

Like some of you he accuses me of all manner of mirrored twaddle.
He also hypocritically had a stomach reduction surgery paid for by medicaid which he has subsequently blown through and surpassed the 450 lbs mark. But I'm lazy. LOL!

But what's important to the haters is that my brother says some pretty hateful things to me and that gets their nipples hard.
crankster

Trad climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 08:21pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jun 1, 2015 - 08:28pm PT
Does Werner lock his car ...?
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jun 1, 2015 - 08:30pm PT
But I'm lazy. LOL!

Have you or someone you love been sport climbing...?
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 08:42pm PT
OMG Jim back off the high horse. Maybe you should get informed or mind your own business. Where did I make fun of him? How can you interpret what I said as fact as making fun?
You don't know me or my brother or his long history of abuse and abusive behavior. So please keep your uniformed and inane assumptions to yourself.


You guys are priceless. You are cracking me up,
Here on CMac's own thread about not degenerating into personal attacks that is all you can do. You are all doing it to yourselves again. When this fabulous thread goes away it may take a few frothy posters with it. Won't be me crying wolf but I'm sure I'll take the heat.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 08:54pm PT
Jim, so you can hear laughter on your computer? I'm sorry but please get a grip!




Have you boys just about shot your loads yet?


ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Jun 1, 2015 - 09:01pm PT
I think it is important to remember that only idiots argue with idiots on the Internet. Carry on....
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 09:06pm PT
Did he ask me if was all right to threaten mine and my children's lives? You know nothing Jim Snow.


I posted up a perfect example of ODS (Obama Derangement Syndromes) wherein a member of your own family throws another to the wolves for irrational dogma.
I made the comment about him calling me lazy because it was such a bald lie and a mirroring.
I am still active and he is on oxygen and still a chain smoking alcoholic. I did not laugh at nor make fun of him for his weight. But I won't shy away from pointing out his hypocrisy. I rationally addressed his argument with facts.
But I can see now why you would defend him.
You are becoming churlish and boring.
Why should I care a whit about your opinion of me?
Try not engaging.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 09:14pm PT
I just explained why I posted that in the first place.
Why can't you pay attention?

And you are perseverating on a post from 2012.
Not what is being posted by me here and now on this fun thread,
John M

climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 09:16pm PT
I posted up a perfect example of ODS (Obama Derangement Syndromes) wherein a member of your own family throws another to the wolves for irrational dogma.

there is such a massive disconnect here.

really Philo.. you should take a look at this. I'm sure you are a good guy. But your posting is kinda out of hand.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 09:19pm PT

Have no idea who or what that one is Scrubs.




there is such a massive disconnect here
.




Yes, yes there is, there certainly is.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 09:24pm PT
Just a reminder here is the OP of this thread.






Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member


Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 7, 2015 - 04:47pm PT
Dear Forum,

We have added a new administrative policy: freezing threads that have devolved mostly into personal attacks. These threads will exist on the site so that earlier posts can live on. But nobody will be able to post to a frozen thread in the future.

Why are we doing this?

We’ve noticed most of the personal attacks on the site come from just a handful of people in just a handful of threads. Most often, these are threads which were off-topic to begin with, but which over time deteriorated into largely political debates. Once politicized, these threads then seem to degrade further into personal attacks. We simply don't want to host these kinds of discussions (despite their popularity), and thus we'd ask you to: a) please refrain from starting politically oriented threads on SuperTopo, and b) don't be surprised if a thread which has become infected with personal attacks is locked to prevent further discussion. While occasionally it is appropriate to delete posters and threads, we prefer not to do this. Hopefully freezing threads that devolve into personal attacks will help with an ongoing effort to keep the forum a friendly and informative resource for climbers of all ages and interests.

Thank you,
jonnyrig

climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 09:32pm PT
All ages and interests does not seem to mean what what you think it means.
Good night.
looks easy from here

climber
Ben Lomond, CA
Jun 1, 2015 - 09:35pm PT
Over/under on how many more posts before this thread is frozen?
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 09:35pm PT
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 09:42pm PT
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 09:46pm PT
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Jun 1, 2015 - 09:54pm PT
First he plays the, Everyone is picking on me card,
and then the, guilt card,
then he plays the, friends in high places card.
I'm waiting for the next cards played in the, CLASSIC Passive Aggressive Card game.

Cosmic nails it - and Philo is too-far-on his meds or off them....
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 10:02pm PT


Here let me help you find your way.



Who needs meds?

atchafalaya

Boulder climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 10:04pm PT
Philo=Ron=rokjox=fattrad=Crowley....

What is it with ignorant old dimwits being unable to regulate their post quantity or quality?

Please stfu,

Thank you

philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 10:09pm PT

philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 10:18pm PT

Here is this a better meme to express my concern?
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Jun 1, 2015 - 10:23pm PT
I just wanted to point out that this thread freezed would blow my mind,

so many levels of mental hamster-wheeling finally chew

it's own leg off

to escape.

philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 10:26pm PT
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jun 1, 2015 - 10:27pm PT
Moose Stomp...!
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Jun 1, 2015 - 10:46pm PT
Ah, so it is rutting season again?
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Jun 1, 2015 - 11:00pm PT
nobody will be able to post to a frozen thread in the future.
John M

climber
Jun 1, 2015 - 11:02pm PT
Philos new name..

The Freezenator
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 1, 2015 - 11:13pm PT
http://youtu.be/hky4Enfz6N0
yanqui

climber
Balcarce, Argentina
Jun 2, 2015 - 03:52am PT
an eye for an eye ...

[Click to View YouTube Video]
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa y Perrito Ruby
Jun 2, 2015 - 06:55am PT
Take heart internet bullies, the age of ELONIS v. UNITED STATES is upon us.

Majority

Thus, conviction under this provision requires proof that:
(1) the defendant transmitted something, (2) the thing transmitted was a threat to injure the person of another, and (3) the transmission was in interstate or foreign commerce.

Alito borrows from Webster

In my view, the term “threat” in §875(c) can fairly be defined as a statement that is reasonably interpreted as “an expression of an intention to inflict evil, injury, or damage on another.” Webster’s Third New International Dictionary 2382 (1976).

Dissent


The majority today at least refrains from requiring an intent to threaten for §875(c) convictions, as Elonis asks us to do. Elonis contends that proof of a defendant’s intent to put the recipient of a threat in fear is necessary for conviction, but that element cannot be found within the statutory text. “[W]e ordinarily resist reading words or elements into a statute that do not appear on its face,” including elements similar to the one Elonis proposes. E.g., Bates v. United States, 522 U. S. 23, 29 (1997) (declining to read an “intent to defraud” element into a criminal statute). As the majority correctly explains, nothing in the text of §875(c) itself requires proof of an intent to threaten. See ante, at 8–9. The absence of such a requirement is significant, as Congress knows how to require a heightened mens rea in the context of threat offenses.

48 pages here:

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14pdf/13-983_7l48.pdf
jonnyrig

climber
Jun 2, 2015 - 08:51am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 2, 2015 - 09:06am PT
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 2, 2015 - 09:06am PT
Has Anthony Elonis been banned here? He seems like a nice young man


BITD when you broke up with your gal you would write a catchy, cheer-you-up tune, and everything was okay.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

That tradition has morphed into something more sinister.
How Mr. Elonis deals with rejection:

“You know your s***’s ridiculous
when you have the FBI knockin’ at yo’ door
Little Agent lady stood so close
Took all the strength I had not to turn the b ghost
Pull my knife, flick my wrist, and slit her throat
Leave her bleedin’ from her jugular in the arms of her
partner
[laughter]
So the next time you knock, you best be serving a
warrant
And bring yo’ SWAT and an explosives expert while
you’re at it
Cause little did y’all know, I was strapped wit’ a bomb
Why do you think it took me so long to get dressed
with no shoes on?
I was jus’ waitin’ for y’all to handcuff me and pat me
down
Touch the detonator in my pocket and we’re all goin’
[BOOM!]
Are all the pieces comin’ together?
S***, I’m just a crazy sociopath
that gets off playin’ you stupid f***s like a fiddle
And if y’all didn’t hear, I’m gonna be famous
Cause I’m just an aspiring rapper who likes the
attention
who happens to be under investigation for terrorism
cause y’all think I’m ready to turn the Valley into
Fallujah
But I ain’t gonna tell you which bridge is gonna fall
into which river or road
And if you really believe this s***
I’ll have some bridge rubble to sell you tomorrow
[BOOM!][BOOM!][BOOM!]”
jonnyrig

climber
Jun 2, 2015 - 09:11am PT
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 2, 2015 - 09:12am PT
Look out here comes climbing content.







jonnyrig

climber
Jun 2, 2015 - 09:14am PT
So...?
jonnyrig

climber
Jun 2, 2015 - 09:15am PT
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 2, 2015 - 09:27am PT

philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 2, 2015 - 09:30am PT

jonnyrig

climber
Jun 2, 2015 - 09:37am PT
Have a nice day!
jonnyrig

climber
Jun 2, 2015 - 09:52am PT
No, no... he's just a climber. Have you seen his content? I hear it's spectacular. I'm sure he'll post some more shortly for your viewing pleasure. He might even do a little name-dropping. Hey, don't you climb once in awhile too Tad?
I think one of these days I might actually post a TR. No locations though, just pictures and maybe a brief description. Apparently, disclosure of new climbing areas is inappropriate for an internet climbing forum, as are other certain interests which some people find to be provocative. You should post a TR too, Tad. Just be careful not to mention firearms, politics, religion, or sexual preference. And don't reveal the location unless it's already grid bolted and published. New areas are taboo.
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Jun 2, 2015 - 10:41am PT
Hope springs eternal..then takes a whipper.

It is questionable whether the particular realistic constraints which so
often prove insufficient that erasure occurs for a Taco-ite
could be assembled into a compactly expressible,
general argument that would
warn us in advance.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 2, 2015 - 10:46am PT
This thread has it all - bunnies, unicorns, and guns!!!!!! Woot!
Oh, and pics of Philo sending.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 2, 2015 - 10:54am PT
Dave, I understand from the posts far upthread (and in the "Ron's Gone" post) that the banishees got warned before their banishment. Perhaps the moderators can add a "to be frozen at [date, time]" warning to the offending threads, so we can get our last words in. This would be in the spirit of the last call at a bar.

Events of the last week or two force me to admit I was wrong. OK, most of the ST users already think that, but I mean on this issue. I thought that ST might lose the vibrancy that keeps me here if it took too aggressive a stance enforcing inoffensiveness. Instead, most of the junk has been confined to this thread, while the rest of the forum still has lots of good stuff. We even gained some excellent pictures on this thread as well.

Good for ST.

John
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 2, 2015 - 11:08am PT
Wow. Are you guys seriously still at this sh#t?
jstan

climber
Jun 2, 2015 - 11:09am PT
This thread has it all - bunnies, unicorns, and guns!!!!!! Woot!

Au Contraire

One thing has not been seen.

But I am sure it is coming.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jun 2, 2015 - 11:26am PT
One thing has not been seen.

But I am sure it is coming.

Is it blue, and coming from Locker?
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Jun 2, 2015 - 11:28am PT
Do they come in pairs?
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa y Perrito Ruby
Jun 2, 2015 - 08:19pm PT
^and I was threatened with banishment for posting a news photo of dead people.

I did enjoy the ice climbing photos. Who is pictured, pray tell?



jstan

climber
Jun 2, 2015 - 08:22pm PT
We are getting closer, but not there yet..
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jun 2, 2015 - 08:25pm PT
Lengthy article from the NYT - but all along it could have been the Russians and not Ron -

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html?_r=0
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Jun 2, 2015 - 08:37pm PT
^ Quite the story, Ricky D.

Now we know where LEB came from. :-)
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Jun 2, 2015 - 10:19pm PT
WBraun

climber
Jun 2, 2015 - 10:21pm PT
Not true.

There are words when their sound vibrations are made can destroy you instantly ......
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 2, 2015 - 10:28pm PT
QUACK QUACK!!
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 2, 2015 - 11:04pm PT
We threw a full moon party tonight.


philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 3, 2015 - 06:59am PT
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 3, 2015 - 09:01am PT
Gingerbread Cams. Not recommended for actual climbing. Though I imagine pretty good for bivy food.

The point jrig is that these folks, many of whom are highly regarded on the Taco, are my friends. They are highly regarded by people who don't know them any more than they know me, by people who don't know what these "highly regarded" folks believe in or stand for. If you were to engage most of these friends of mine on subjects considered "hot potato" issues would you so easily condemn everything else about them simply on the basis of their stance on gun issues? Here is a good point I'd like to make. Attending the party last night were Rodger Rauhbach aka Brokedownclimber and Jan Sacherrer Turner aka Jan, two stalwart and much respected ST posters. Friends for decades with each other and staunchly on opposite sides of many issues.
Now Rodger is as staunch a defender of the 2nd Amendment as your likely to meet. He is also my friend. He and I have had every bit of heated exchanges about gun issues in America as I've had with anybody on the Taco. We may someday find common ground on reasonable approaches but we will likely never see Eye to eye on the subject. He and I also both love our four legged family members but will never agree on the issue of dogs at the crag. OK cool.
He and I still have more in common than not and share a deep respect for each other, differences, warts and all. The biggest difference with Brokedown climber is that unlike my mono-dimensional detractors he is wise enough and mature enough to see through to the heart and mind within. He, like these other friends who actually know me, doesn't allow his disagreements with me preclude significant intelligent interactions.

jonnyrig

climber
Jun 3, 2015 - 09:18am PT
That's all well and good; but your approach here on the forum has been less than the intelligent discussion of hot potato topics that you are likely to engage in with your close personal friends, to the point that you actually felt compelled to apologize for your actions. In asking whether they are aware of your posting to this thread, I simply wondered if they approve of the manner and intent in which you posted those pics to this thread. You see, it's not just a celebration of your friendship and the party you held, it is you driving home the point that these well-regarded members know and approve of you, and apparently of your actions on the forum.

Personally, I also have friends who contribute to this forum. We have also participated in conversation regarding divisive issues on which we do not agree, and yet remain friends; but I'm not going to post up their pictures here as some kind of accolade to myself validating their approval of me and my actions here. Indeed, I suspect some of them would not necessarily appreciate my involvement here. Point is, they speak for themselves and I'm not going to involve them.

You're probably a wonderful friend in person, and indeed some have outright said so. I don't know you personally, nor anything about your climbing prowess or your opinions on other controversial subjects. What we know about each other is limited to the interactions we have here on this forum. Thus you judge me and your other detractors to be mono-dimensional, and I judge your posting style and participation in the banishment of other forum members to be less than honorable. In neither case do we agree. Based on that participation here, I'm not interested in knowing you personally, since I don't like your style.

Randisi will never like me, and I'm ok with that.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 3, 2015 - 09:22am PT
– Donini wouldn’t stop talking about how much he loved the new Katy Perry album at Indian Creek, but I let it slide because he was a great host otherwise ;)

Damn, dood, that is some kind of world class forbearance!
I'm not sure I would have let that slide. Some times ya just gotta
stand up for what's right, ya know?
John M

climber
Jun 3, 2015 - 09:24am PT
Philo..

Tad isn't a hater. Eric wolf isn't a hater. Cosmic isn't a hater. I'm not a hater, yet you labeled all of us haters because we said something about you that you didn't like. You post passive aggressively. Maybe in real life you don't act this way. But on the forum you do. It pisses people off. We have had many people on this forum who in real life have lots of friends but on the forum act like d#@&%es. Crowley is a great example. I miss the guy, but he drove me nuts on the forum.

It was a d#@&%e move what you did on the gun thread. You didn't "just post facts". You slammed that thread making it hard to enjoy. Sure… some of those guys went off the deep end, but then you used that as an excuse to further go off the deep end yourself and then you tried to pretend that you are taking the high road. Doesn't that remind you of someone formerly from this forum? Hint.. ( LEB )

Is it the high road to try and belittle someone and reduce their opinion to something less by labeling them " just a hater"? Just because they said something about you that you did not like?

According to you I'm a hater, but guess what.. I also have friends in high places. Oh my.. if I post their pictures will it make me less of a hater to you?


philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 3, 2015 - 09:43am PT
The opporative words in your first sentence jrig is "has been". Both for me as a climber and my approach to posting on ST threads. Sadly you and your homies neglect to pay attention to anything I post of a positive and supportive nature. You focus solely on past grievances and can not or will not look beyond. I sincerely invite and encourage anyone to read through my posting history since the end of last year and tell me where the nasty ogre shows up. Then look at the posts made at me and tell me honestly who is being rude and uncivil. I was not "compelled" to apologize as you want to think. I appologized because I was asked to by a poster whom I hold in great respect who wanted to see the forum "cool down". He was right to ask. Thank you for graciously accepting said apology.

So no matter what I post, climbing content, climbing pics, climbing friends, news about rescue and recovery to earthquake victims in Nepal, words of advice and encouragement to others, positive feedback on dozens of threads, trip reports, support of wounded vets, nothing, nothing will matter because I don't share your views on one issue?
The fact that I have turned a new leaf in my approach to the forum does not matter compared to past perceived injustices? It's like I've recovered from alcoholism or drug addiction and some of you can't help but offer me a shot or a fix.

Yea my friends dig seeing their pics in social settings just like the Taco clan dig seeing their pics posted from ST happy hours. If fair be fair you should slam everyone who has ever posted pics of themselves and their friends.


John get over it. The folks and friends at the party get exactly the same Philo the forum gets. The same sarcastic spence of humor, rye wit and passionate defense of perspectives.
And they don't get "pissed off". Some of you want to insist that all I ever contribute is negativity and bombast, I sorry but I beg to differ and have posted these things in this thread to highlight the fact. However some of you might want to take a good hard look in the mirror.

If some of you can dismiss everything about someone and perseverate and judge solely from the myopia of tunnel vision then your just not worth the time to get to know.
jstan

climber
Jun 3, 2015 - 09:50am PT
Donini wouldn’t stop talking about how much he loved the new Katy Perry album at Indian Creek

I have always found it useful to watch Donini........carefully. So I went and listened to a couple of tunes by Perry.

I am so grateful I am not a teenager.
John M

climber
Jun 3, 2015 - 09:56am PT

I'm staying at this dudes house. Am I safe?

BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 3, 2015 - 09:57am PT

I am so grateful I am not a teenager


ha ha.
You might look good with purple hair though?
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 3, 2015 - 10:14am PT
It was a real pleasure for me to finally get to introduce my friend David Rothstein to Jeff and Connie at the Big Spring BBQ and Giant Cookie Fest last night.

Ten years ago David hired me to do high end artistic lighting in his home and his business.
Not only is he my best client but over the years we became climbing partners and friends. I consider David to be my best friend. We know we could count on the other when the fecal material hits the fan.
Some tacos who think my stance on Palestinian rights to Peace and Justice must mean I am antisemetic - not realizing Palestinians are more Semetic than the Jews emigrating from all over the world (some have even erroneously and ignorantly stated that I have called for death to all Jews) - might be stunned to realize that David is Jewish. He knows and comprehends my other than main stream stance on Middle East issues. He sees the same Philo the forum does and we have no problems or issues based on misinterpretation.
We are each part of each other's families.



philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 3, 2015 - 10:42am PT
Me too. I just disagree with the policies of the State of Israel regarding the Palestinians.
I also like fast sports cars and four wheel drives. But I want us to seriously address our pollution issues and kick the fossil fuel addiction that is killing the planet.
I also like guns. But have a serious issue about a society so enamored with them that school shootings get treated like part of normal life.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 3, 2015 - 10:48am PT
Some tacos who think my stance on Palestinian rights to Peace and Justice must mean I am antisemetic

No, some of us just think you are anti-emetic which is actually an OK stance around here
given the naturally purgative nature of so many posts, eh?
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 3, 2015 - 10:59am PT
Hey the sun came up today. Anyone care to disagree or perhaps claim I said the moon exploded?

OK right. So how many of you can tell me how many school shootings have occurred since Columbine? How many dead students and teacher in those shootings? How many could name even a few schools involved.

Here is a cheat sheet for you.
List of school shootings in the United States - Wikipedia, the free ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States
This is a chronological list of school shootings in the United States. It consists of incidents in which a firearm was discharged at a school infrastructure, including ...
‎Bath School disaster - ‎Enoch Brown school massacre - ‎Red Lake massacre
Timeline: Deadly school shootings since Columbine - USA Today
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/.../school-shootings.../7903671/
Apr 19, 2014 - April 20, 2014 marks the 15th anniversary of the shooting rampage that killed 13 at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo. Look back at ...
School shootings since Columbine High massacre - The Denver Post
http://www.denverpost.com/.../school-shootings-since-columbine-high-massacre
Dec 13, 2013 - April 20: Columbine High School, Jefferson County - Eric Harris, 18 and Dylan Klebold, 17, killed 12 students and one teacher and wounded 24 ...
Spinning Statistics on School Shootings - FactCheck.org
http://www.factcheck.org/2014/06/spinning-statistics-on-school-shootings/
Jun 25, 2014 - Q: Have there been 74 school shootings since the Sandy Hook ... claim that “ since Columbine, there have been 181 of these school shootings.
Have there been 74 school shootings since Sandy Hook? A closer ...
http://www.politifact.com/.../have-there-been-74-school-shootings-sandy-hook-cl...
Jun 13, 2014 - It said that at least 74 school shootings had occurred since December ... before it, the 1999 Columbine shooting in Colorado that left 15 dead, ...
Columbine to Newtown: A tragic list of school shootings since 1999 ...
http://www.westword.com/.../columbine-to-newtown-a-tragic-list-of-school-shoot...
On the tenth anniversary of that tragedy, we assembled a horrific roster of school shootings in the decade since Columbine, based on data from the Brady ...
F.B.I. Confirms a Sharp Rise in Mass Shootings Since 2000 ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/25/us/25shooters.html
Sep 24, 2014 - In all, the study looked at 160 shootings since 2000. .... had studied high-profile shootings, like the one at Columbine High School in Colorado ...
A closer look: How many school shootings since Newtown? - CNN ...
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/11/us/school-shootings-cnn-number/
Jun 19, 2014 - A closer look: How many Newtown-like school shootings since ..... and told investigators he had visited Colorado's Columbine High School ...
Timeline of Worldwide School Shootings - Infoplease
http://www.infoplease.com › ... › Crime & Law Enforcement › Crime Data
The following table lists the worldwide school shootings from 1996 to the present. ... 14 students (including killers) and one teacher killed, 23 others wounded at Columbine High School in the ... The shooter has been in a coma ever since.
Bearing ArmsCorrect Number Of Mass School Shootings Since ...
bearingarms.com/correct-number-mass-school-shootings-since-sandy-hook...
Jun 13, 2014 - Correct Number Of Mass School Shootings Since Sandy Hook: ZERO ... Incidents such as Sandy Hook or Columbine in which the shooter ...
this just in

climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
Jun 3, 2015 - 11:02am PT
Well it (sun) actually just stayed in the same place;-)
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 3, 2015 - 11:06am PT
No Locker I said the country is enamored with guns.
The lack of outrage for the ongoing slaughter of innocents is what allows us to sweep the inconvenient truths aside.
It has become "normal" to hear and not react to what should have people demanding change.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 3, 2015 - 11:12am PT
http://www.news4jax.com/news/school-shooting-threats/33342780

Now happening.
jonnyrig

climber
Jun 3, 2015 - 11:17am PT
People do want change philo. Not all of us agree with your perception of what that change should be. You've made it your pet rant here, and contributed to the banishment of other forum members over it.

I thought you'd recognized your involvement in such and offered up an apology; but regarding your statement above that the apology was not, in fact, your idea... just makes it less genuine. The idea that you can not seem to conceive your active participation in said events, and the passive aggressive nature of that participation is the issue at hand to me.

Here you are, hashing it up again for us, calling us out over your perceived lack of outrage on our part, despite all discussion to the contrary in past and now defunct threads. Dude, you just aren't getting it.

Congratulations on the attempt to be more civil. Keep working at it.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 3, 2015 - 11:19am PT
Sorry to disappoint a handful of posters but I will post what I want, where I want, whenever I want and as often as I want. It's my business and the management can oust me whenever they chose to or want to. Take your whinging churlish pot shots and swipes in a vacuum. I don't and won't care. Those of you who can only engage me in the manner currently employed are not worth responding to. So carry on. As will I.


Edited to add; I am here for my pleasure not yours.
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 3, 2015 - 11:20am PT
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 3, 2015 - 11:24am PT
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 3, 2015 - 11:26am PT
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 3, 2015 - 11:29am PT
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 3, 2015 - 11:32am PT





You know what is really cool about these pics and in particular the last one?
It is that there is Tessie and Wayne's son Kaiden on the evening before flying to Seattle to see his awesome dad who is now confined to a wheel chair and unable to speak hanging around Jeff Lowe who is also confined to a wheel chair and unable to speak.
It was significant that Kaiden saw Jeff being in his situation as a normal not bad thing.
What a cool kid.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jun 3, 2015 - 11:34am PT
I will post what I want, where I want, whenever I want and as often as I want.

Interesting. Clearly, you feel that, regardless of what anyone else thinks, you will post what you want, where you want, whenever you want, and as often as you want.

Fair enough. But if that apples for you, why do you complain about what other people post? Why do you get all exercised about what your "detractors" post? If you can post whatever you feel like posting, why shouldn't they?
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 3, 2015 - 11:38am PT
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 3, 2015 - 11:42am PT
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 3, 2015 - 11:46am PT
Hey man its a party with friends
And its in Colorado.
You got a problem with that?



jonnyrig

climber
Jun 3, 2015 - 11:59am PT
What... I made a simple statement. What makes you think it's about you? Just adding to the party atmosphere you're creating. Party on dude!
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 3, 2015 - 12:01pm PT
philo

Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
Jun 3, 2015 - 12:05pm PT

I'm going to keep posting up the love and good vibrations.
Let others demonstrate their need for a diaper Change.
John M

climber
Jun 3, 2015 - 12:07pm PT
PTSD.. its whats for dinner.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/05/ptsd-war-home-sebastian-junger