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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Mar 28, 2015 - 09:51am PT
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I don't know any of my neighbors, and even I if I did, they wouldn't ask for help, and I sure wouldn't ask for help.
They all want help from someplace that offers help, and that would be the GOVERNMENT, that is the Gov.s job, provide for people in distress that have no where else to go.
Say you lost your job because of sickness or an accident, then what?
Your family is tapped out, and why should they have to take care of you? They aren't running a humanity help service program.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Mar 28, 2015 - 09:57am PT
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"I don't know any of my neighbors, and even I if I did, they wouldn't ask for help, and I sure wouldn't ask for help."
That's a big part of the problem...loss of connection from our local communities.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Mar 28, 2015 - 10:29am PT
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Jesus, I'm incredibly rich, I have this beautiful precious child to light up my life every day! Her birth mother doesn't have money or her child. Maybe they're related.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Mar 28, 2015 - 12:13pm PT
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Big money has won over basic moral concerns, there are people dying because of this neglect, it's the opposite of Christ's teaching, meaning one thing, the bankers have corrupted Christianity so they can use it to control Christians to vote for anti-Christian values.
Fixed that for you Craig. Question is, what are you gonna do about it. Bitchin here ain't helping....
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Mar 28, 2015 - 12:45pm PT
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That's a fine ideal, but it obviously doesn't work. Insular, self-oriented views are sadly more of the norm in this society, and there just isn't going to be mass-infusion of values & concern for others that provides an increase in help to those who genuinely need it. That's not a realistic strategy (all by itself) to help those who need help.
And what's the alternative, anyway? Stop all social services, and allow society to stratify even further, with poverty, disease, mental illness, and degradation left to their own devices?
I'm pretty damn sure part of the vision of the Founding Fathers was a country with compassion for each citizen. (Theoretically, that compassion is supposed to part of Christianity, with varying results.) Striking the balance between individual & government efforts to help those who need it is a reasonable goal.
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Floorabove
climber
The Gunks y'all
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Mar 28, 2015 - 12:48pm PT
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Hey Craig-Fry,
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government
take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian.”
Henry Ford
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Jim Clipper
climber
from: forests to tree farms
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Mar 28, 2015 - 01:29pm PT
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Gonna forego Medicare and Social Security Cragman?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Mar 28, 2015 - 02:03pm PT
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Craig...I think the biggest issue here in the U.S. is apathy.
If more average Joe's would simply take responsibility to help their neighbor, we could solve these issues.
Yes! This means don't vote for republican robber barons whose goal is to line their own pocket at the expense of programs that actually help people. I'm thinking specifically obamacare. (But there are others...) Supporting that Is one of the single best things you can do for others!
Waiting on the government is like herding cats...or trying to nail Jello to the wall
Perhaps, but waiting on the genorsity of "haves" insures that some people will be ignored!
Heal the world...make it a better place
For you and for me and the entire human race
There are people dying, if you care enough for the living
Make a better place for you and for me
Michael Jackson
Crazy tortured Michael had his moments!
Helping others need not involve the government WRONG
I wish that were true. Put a "should" in there and the statement is accurate. Again, depending on the largese of the Nobles Oblige, doesn't work, because they play favorites,.
" gay, atheist who has had an abortions? No health care for you!"
-just one possible example, of many...
The only possible way to insure care for is to get the government involve, painful as that is. No other body has the resources, responsibility, or motivation to consider Everybody!
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Mar 28, 2015 - 04:07pm PT
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Far too many of our markers for defining rich and poor in society are set for us by Television and other mediums.
I grew up in a time when I FIGURED OUT that I'd be happy with one hundred a week--I was about eight or nine when that epiphany hit me.
I've never had much, never been ambitious in the way a lot of upwardly-mobile folks are, and never been particularly impressed by dress, cars, or homes.
Or the size of a record collection.
Or the numbers of trophies on the mantle.
I did my taxes this year instead of letting them slide, because I hope to qualify for food stamps and wished to see how I fared in that regard.
Turns out I'm WELL UNDER the eleventhousandsomeodd line.
I'm set. Now I need to bike over to the county's offices and request the process begin. They'll tell me to get a valid ID for about thirty bucks. That will be hoop one. I may just wait and not waste their time and mine and go apply for a duplicate DL.
Yes, I've played the game before. I took myself off food stamps when my dad, named Francis, called Boomer, died and a lot of money came to me all of a sudden.
St. Francis of A-seetzee, be with me, as your patronage is greatly desired. It's not that fun being poor. And it's not that fun having to go to the library to get online.
There's barely time to look at Facebook, let alone discuss the world's poor.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Mar 28, 2015 - 04:19pm PT
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Mouse, I guess unless you're a trustifarian that knows how to manage their money it's either work your butt off and be comfortable or work little, have less and endure the inconveniences that go along with that.....but also have as your gift the blessing of time to spend doing what you love and having much more time for family and friends.
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TWP
Trad climber
Mancos, CO & Bend, OR
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Mar 29, 2015 - 10:24am PT
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"I've been rich and I’ve been poor -- and believe me, rich is better."
Sophie Tucker
US (Russian-born) vaudeville singer (1884 - 1966)
I wouldn't argue with an authority like Sophie.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Mar 29, 2015 - 10:36am PT
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There have been a lot of great fundraisers for various folks in need here on the Topo. And it's great as a community that we can do that.
But it's a shame as a nation that we have to do that. Major medical expenses shouldn't be the cause of people going broke.
As for student loans, they have become not much more than an channel of money to bankers and college administrators. Cost have risen far higher than the rate of inflation because of the easy money to fund those costs. And the quality of education hasn't kept in step. Sure some colleges have nicer dorms and gyms. But that's pretty much about it.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2015 - 10:49am PT
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Money and the pursuit of it. It's good to step back and re-examine it's role in your life. (either Bob Dylan or Lynne said that. I'll let you be in my dream ... you know the drill).
It's important to live the dog's life now and again.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Mar 29, 2015 - 11:04am PT
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To the OP, I'm financially very poor. No heat in my house for the last three weeks and it's still winter here. We keep the faucets dripping at night in hopes that the pipes don't freeze. Only happened twice this year, so it could be worse.
In every other respect, I'm not a poor man whatsoever.
My life is amazingly good.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 29, 2015 - 11:50am PT
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Silly Moose coulda stayed in Poland and been happy with cheap slivovitz.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Mar 29, 2015 - 01:13pm PT
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zBrown, you make a good point and I guess each person has to find their own peace with their answer. On my own for the past 7+ years I've had to figure out what's important to lynnie.
Spending all my time making money is not my answer, been there done that.
But, finding the formula to keep my life balanced has been challenging. One must pay their bills, so I deleted much in my life so I only have a few essential bills. Then there's the living part and figuring out how to bring in extra cash for gas money, a healthy diet etc.
People love to give advice and I ask for it. Even if I don't agree with them, their ideas and thoughts sometime take me down roads of creativity I never may have explored.
Gosh, that would be a good thread. How to Live on Little.
Anyway, thanks for your Thread, zBrown, I'm enjoying it! Cheers, lynnie
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Mar 29, 2015 - 01:13pm PT
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I guess I know what Brandon knows. Poor people have it good in these times.
Look at our health care process, we are so dumb. Money can't buy you love, now can it?
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2015 - 01:23pm PT
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Thanks Lynne.
Never seen a thread with so little music. Excuse me while I step into the twilight zone.
Where do you go, once you've gone too far?
Dodge them bullets, they hurt when they hit the bone.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Mar 29, 2015 - 04:29pm PT
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Most days I am flabbergasted at how much I am paid. I grew up with stretches of being poor (single mom on welfare, etc), many stretches of not being much above poor. What I do is not any great service to the world, but it is all I really know how to do that gets me paid.
I am grateful for the perspective I have from the lean times growing up, and have worked my butt off to stay not-poor ever since going out on my own. A lot of the tradeoffs are not good ones. I am stuck in a cubicle most days, and most of my meager vacation gets used up on family obligations, so I get out very little and I ma in miserable physical shape these days.
My kid will likely never know what poor feels like, and I have very mixed feelings on that. I would really prefer he knows what poor is like, how much of a trap it can be, how much of modern life is full of unnecessary trivialities that will erode your bank account and your brain by a thousand cuts. On the other hand I feel the constant discomfort of living my life with people who I don't click with, with whom I will never really fit in with, basically folks who are all a bit 2 dimensional. I miss the groveler lifestyle, and wish there was some decent middle ground between that gave more time outside of suburbia.
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