WINGS OF STEEL :What is the controversial question?

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Watermann2

Big Wall climber
Saluzzo Italia
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 23, 2015 - 04:08am PT
Good morning, (sorry for the translation) I please know a few things about this climb on EL CAP, which I count (in my humble opinion) a masterpiece of climbing artificial. What are the charges that you make to these two great climber? They made holes for the Sky-Hook or Cliff- Hanger? I could not understand the problem of the holes, if they have drilled or not (I can not understand the translation) (I think it is ethically prohibited to make holes to put bat-Hook) (I can be wrong, I do not know what the exact rules )
I do please understand the dispute issues on this big climb?

"" "" "" "" "" "" "" We did do the Ring of Fire, and we DID use bat hooks instead of rivets On That route "" "" "" "" "" "" ""


Please explain to me what they are: Ring of Fire?

Thank you very much for your explanations.
Greetings to all from Italy

--------------------------------------------------------------


El Cap's Hardest: Wings of Steel
By Ammon McNeely and additional reporting by Kait Barber

http://www.rockandice.com/lates-news/el-caps-hardest-wings-of-steel

----------------------------------------------------------------------
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Mar 23, 2015 - 05:32am PT
The question is ..Can detergent be used to wash ropes...
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 23, 2015 - 06:24am PT
Down or synthetic for my sleeping bag?
mcreel

climber
Barcelona
Mar 23, 2015 - 07:38am PT
Couldn't give a crap about WoS (hah hah), but why does R&I have a "lates-news" link?
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Mar 23, 2015 - 07:48am PT
Watermann2, dunno if this answers any of your questions?

[Click to View YouTube Video]
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Mar 23, 2015 - 08:08am PT
oy.. ;(

exhibit A: "serial threads" - subject "Wings of Steel"

links to all the links of people arguing endlessly about it...

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2595619&msg=2595619#msg2595619

or you can just rent the movie :)
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Mar 23, 2015 - 08:16am PT
or you can just rent the movie :)

Watermann, see Director Jeff Vargen's post on where to see his film:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2506474&msg=2506474

Free streaming here, though it may not work in Italy:

http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/assault_on_el_capitan
Watermann2

Big Wall climber
Saluzzo Italia
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 23, 2015 - 08:23am PT
Thanks a lot Mr.Kunlun_Shan for video, with these great climber (first climbers and first repeaters) But, unfortunately, I do not understand your language (and I'm so sorry) And I'm too old to try to learn it !!! For others who kindly responded, but it seems ironic answers too, though I thank them too, although I would like to know and understand, such accusations are leveled at this big climb, I think these two great climbers,
Mr.Mark Smith and Mr. Richard Jensen did a great masterpiece of EL CAPITAN. I would like to read their book, but unfortunately in Italian or French (who'd understand there). However, I am in front of Mr. Smith and Mr.Jensen tell them: You have done a climb legendary !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chapeau !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Greetings to all and welcome to other answers !!
Thank you very much.


-------------------------------------------------- -------------------------

P.S.
The Video posted then I will see some of it translated by a friend who knows your language, that I know nothing.
-------------------------------------------------- -------------------------


Thank you very much also Mr. Justthemaid for Your Answer!!!!
Greetings.

----------------------------------------------------------------




Thanks for the explanation Mr.Clint Cummins !!!!!!!!
Greetings.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Mar 23, 2015 - 08:39am PT
Please explain to me what they are: Ring of Fire?
Ring of Fire is another first ascent they did on El Capitan, after Wings of Steel.

The controversy was mostly because many climbers thought the rock was too blank (on the Great Slab of Wings of Steel) to climb without drilling a very large number of holes for bolts, rivets and bathooks. But Richard Jensen and Mark Smith used hooks to avoid much drilling, and the result was the most difficult hooking on El Capitan. At least one climber did not believe the topo (published in the 1982 guidebook). They continued to think there was more drilling than what was shown on the topo. They were wrong. The topo was confirmed when Ammon and Kait climbed it.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 23, 2015 - 10:36am PT
It was an unusual route done by climbers new to Yosemite and other top climbers of the day didn't like the type of route and made a lot of incorrect claims about the route.

If the people against the route has simply climbed the first pitch they would have seen what it was about and the controversy would have probably died right then. But some people still complain about the route and still haven't climbed any of it to this day.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 23, 2015 - 01:23pm PT
In 1982, several local bullies terrorized two American climbers who came to Yosemite National Park to do some climbing. The bullies wanted the climbers to abandon their right to use the National Park in the same way that the bullies used the Park. The bullies believed they had the right to enforce a "Locals Only" policy regarding who was allowed to climb on El Capitan.

The locals committed at least the following crimes against the two "outsiders":

 making terrorist death threats against the outsiders
 defacement and destruction of personal property and climbing gear
 assault with a deadly weapon so as to inflict grave bodily injury - massive projectiles were thrown down hundreds of feet at the two climbers

In the 2013 film, one of the bullies stated that the local climbers, who staffed the rescue team, were not going to respond to any emergency the two non-local climbers might have had, while on their new El Capitan route. Instead, the locals would leave the two outsiders up there to fend for themselves, and to perhaps die.
Rudder

Trad climber
Costa Mesa, CA
Mar 23, 2015 - 01:33pm PT
I think this pretty much sums it up:

sempervirens

climber
Mar 23, 2015 - 01:42pm PT
Also, the non-locals didn't have the decency to show respect to the locals who were throwing bags of sh#t down at them.

The locals had every right to throw sh#t 'cause they didn't want to waste valuable climbing time actually climbing the route in question.

(My remarks probably can't be accurately translated into Italian.)
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Mar 23, 2015 - 03:54pm PT
To me, the most compelling part of the story has always been the human element - the pride and arrogance of the locals, the determination of the upstarts.

The part that always warms my heart is that a quarter-century later, one of the bullies had the hugely large balls and the contrite heart to apologize publicly to the first ascensionists, who forgave him unconditionally.

To me, this is the sign of true character, and those three are Real Men whom I admire greatly.

Incidentally, this whole story of repentance and forgiveness - and so much more - is found right here on the pages of this very website!

Cheers,
"Pass the Pitons" Pete Zabrok
Ontario, Canada, eh?
The Wolf

Trad climber
Martinez, CA
Mar 25, 2015 - 10:25am PT
I hope you were able to see the film via Snagfilms. Sometimes those sites don't work outside the US.
The film is also available on iTunes Europe and at Steepedge.com. I think all offer low cost rental options.
Pete Hill

Social climber
Squamish
Nov 12, 2015 - 07:44pm PT
I just watched the movie and was impressed by how petty the naysayers presented themselves.
couchmaster

climber
Nov 12, 2015 - 08:43pm PT


IT WAS A SIMPLE MISUNDERSTANDING, RESOLVED LATER.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 23, 2016 - 02:53pm PT
there's a controversial question?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 23, 2016 - 02:58pm PT
In almost any group, or activity, there are those who believe in a fictitious perversion of Newton's Third Law of Motion: for every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction.


Some people believe that if they push down on others, they will elevate themselves upward.


This works in a swimming pool, to a degree, but not in real life.



Like everyone else, the spit-drooling guy in the Ammon film is a mixed bag of both good and bad elements. All we can hope in this life is to strive to suppress the latter. Drool-guy has earned much respect for what he has accomplished; then, there he goes, drooling on camera . . . . .




This is a societal dysfunction that is pervasive, and has existed for millenia.



I'm sorry that I inserted a cigar into Chelsea's proxy, and then smoked it down.

 William Jefferson Clinton, 42nd President of the United States





Hello, my name is Tom, and I am a Fedexaholic.

Many times, I have Fedexed haul bags off El Capitan because I was too lazy to carry them down.

The cranial rush that accompanies slipping the knot and sending the Package from the ZMDZ to the ZMLZ is akin to (I am guessing) snorting up a big fat Speedball of cocaine and heroin. Do it once, and you're hooked.

I no longer throw haul bags off El Capitan, but I have to take it one day at a time.

Just the other day, I was reminiscing about driving up to Tuolumne Meadows, and wondering if those big, round erratic boulders at Olmstead Point could be rolled into Tenaya Canyon, if I could just find a big enough crowbar . . . . . .

johntp

Trad climber
socal
Jan 23, 2016 - 04:10pm PT
Ever tried to surf at Huntington Beach? It was turf war.
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