Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
However, I am curious as to why you think your method is better.
Most any more xxx-like device.
Lead rope solo Gri Gri #1 unmodified
Yeah, did that for years before xxx came along - kinda sucked though.
|
|
Mickster
Social climber
New Jack City, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 5, 2016 - 08:08pm PT
|
Roots, you've quoted moosedrool, who never described or explained those instances, despite my inquiry. AFAIK, there is no device used for top-rope soloing that is 100% reliable, which is why most climbers want redundancy in their self-belay system.
As for my request that this discussion stay on-topic, there are plenty of other threads for people who need reassurance that their way is the right way to climb. I've never said, nor implied, that the Cinch is the best tool for the job. My intention here was to arouse the curiosity of those who can think outside the box, and stir up controversy among those who can't.
|
|
overwatch
climber
Arizona
|
|
I don't see how all the extra encumbrances is thinking outside the box but to each his own.
Seems like a lot of extra junk just to do some top roping. Controversy? please this is nothing this is Super Topo
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
I've never said, nor implied, that the Cinch is the best tool for the job.
Well, you recognize that at the very least.
My intention here was to arouse the curiosity of those who can think outside the box...
If you were really 'thinking outside the box' I suspect you'd have moved on from the Cinch some time ago rather than locking onto it. Also, it would be good if 'the box' were a bit better parameterized.
|
|
overwatch
climber
Arizona
|
|
What was your secondary, xxxx or xxxxx?
|
|
Mickster
Social climber
New Jack City, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 6, 2016 - 05:39pm PT
|
For me, thinking outside the box means exploring an application for the Cinch that Trango has not. The company specifically discourages the practice of self-belaying with it. My guess is that they have product liability concerns, rather than direct evidence of its unsuitability.
The fact remains that a small number of climbers have actually self-belayed with a Cinch, and lived to tell the tale. However, most of those intrepid explorers have not described their methods in detail. To satisfy my curiosity, I invited members of this forum to share their personal experiences with the Cinch in this specific application. I am disappointed that most of the responses have been efforts to dissuade me from using the Cinch, convert me to another device for self-belay, or are tangential to this topic.
As for specific parameters, this is what I would want from a primary self-belay device that's used for soloing on a fixed top-rope:
1) Self-tending, with only a minimal amount of weight on the free end of the rope, thereby eliminating most of the need to pull slack through the device while climbing.
2) Rapid change-over to descending/rappelling without having to unweight the primary device, remove it, and rig a separate device for lowering off.
3) Eliminate the need for extra equipment, such as a rappel device, descender, backup ascender, and foot-loop slings to escape the system mid-pitch or descend from the top anchor.
4) Low risk of causing rope damage when the primary device catches a fall.
5) Compatible with a secondary (back-up) system that will not interfere with the operation of the primary device, or vice-versa.
So far, the Trango Cinch has met all these requirements. If your personal experience with the Cinch as a self-belay device has been different, I'd really like to hear about it.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
For me, thinking outside the box means exploring an application for the Cinch that Trango has not. The company specifically discourages the practice of self-belaying with it. My guess is that they have product liability concerns, rather than direct evidence of its unsuitability.
Trust me, Trango, and specifically Malcolm, more than thoroughly vetted the application of the Cinch for both TR and lead soloing and found it wanting and so have repeatedly (or in the case of Malcolm, personally) discouraged those applications of the device.
I have thousands of pitches of free lead rope soloing under my belt at this point and by extension thousands of pitches of TR soloing because I second all the pitches I lead. I evaluated the Cinch for myself and found it problematic and not as reliable in either application as I had hoped or require.
But I also preach that rope soloing is something people definitely have to come to terms with for themselves and sort out what works for them. So have at it, but it's not really an 'out of the box' sort of deal or a proposition that hasn't been thoroughly vetted by Trango as a company, Trango as individual climbers, or by other knowledgeable and experienced folks.
|
|
Mickster
Social climber
New Jack City, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2016 - 08:48am PT
|
healyje, thank you for sharing your conclusions from personally testing the Cinch as a TR-solo device. I also appreciate your "insider information" about the testing done at Trango, and by Malcolm personally, to see if the Cinch was suitable for TR-soloing. That certainly has put a damper on my desire to do further testing of the Cinch myself.
I do remain curious about the specific limitations that you, and Malcolm, discovered from the testing. I am also curious about how well your preferred device meets the parameters for TR-soloing that I set forth. Not wanting to be the cat who was curious and now dead, I am certainly open to better solutions for TR-soloing than the Cinch. However, I would like factual evidence to support any such proposals, as I am not inclined to simply take things on faith.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!