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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Mar 19, 2015 - 09:39am PT
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We get that heat here too when trying to replace old garbage anchors/bolts with new when no alternative protection exists....
Good for you.
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Impaler
Social climber
Oakland
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Mar 19, 2015 - 10:32am PT
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Dave, I was aware of some older bolts on Venturi and Tradewinds. I think the last of them were replaced last year. What are some of the other routes that you think have bad bolts? I'd love to help if I know what they are.
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Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
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Mar 19, 2015 - 11:10am PT
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Regarding the bolt that failed in ORG; The bolt appears to be plated. If the bolt even received a hairline crack during placement, that would seem to do it. Unplated steel exposed to the elements. I think the rest of the bolts on the route will probably come out in one piece when it gets replaced.
Dan,
If you replace them all, let us know what you find.
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Rankin
Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
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Mar 19, 2015 - 12:13pm PT
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There is something I can't understand. What is to be gained from unclipping the first two bolts from the rope? Why did he do that?
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Mar 19, 2015 - 12:16pm PT
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^^^^^^
My guess is that the climber was just 'aiding' up the climb to setup a toprope so he could then climb the route. He wasn't actually climbing the route with a belay of any sort.
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Rankin
Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
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Mar 19, 2015 - 12:20pm PT
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^^^ Gotcha, no belay at all. Wow, talk about reckless.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Mar 19, 2015 - 12:31pm PT
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As to why and how to set a rope up in the Owens river Gorge,
the top is Choss, and going bolt to bolt alone is a common practice I think?
Can any one who Top ropes, solo there say?
Latter....I am sorry , back to ask the rest of the question,
Is it possible to be clipped in to more than one bolt and still move up?
( stick clip the bolts above from the lower one? what form of belay could he have rigged?
I leave a second strand of cord running through a device, as well as the 'sling shot' top rope
'that goes from me to a pulley 'wall haler' type device, at the top anchor , then back to a GriGri and a free locker as well as tying back up knots as I climb,
this works well so far for straight up routes with little to no traversing.
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Ed H
Trad climber
Santa Rosa, CA
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Mar 19, 2015 - 12:41pm PT
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Sederstrom was on the ground, with an eight-foot loop of slack between the tie-in point on his harness and GriGri attached to his belay loop. A quickdraw was on the rope within the loop, and a bolt hanger, missing its bolt, was on the other end of the draw.
Sederstrom had a stick-clip attached to his harness. The evidence suggests that he was going bolt to bolt—unclipping the one below as he went—when the third bolt of the climb failed.
Sederstrom fell 25 to 30 feet to the ground, suffering trauma to his head. He was not wearing a helmet.
He was on self belay, but with only one bolt above him most of the time. Very sad story. Condolences to his friends and family.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Mar 19, 2015 - 01:21pm PT
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^^^^^^^^
as per my guess in the posting above, this is all speculation. If he really was climbing with only a belay from the bolt above that is not a very safe method.
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alpinist
Trad climber
tahoe city
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Mar 19, 2015 - 07:17pm PT
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Hopefully they've been replaced, but the bolts on the upper pitches of "Astro-Hulk" were placed on lead right during the era when all the Rawl 5/16" were gone and it hadn't occurred to us yet to hand drill 3/8". I think the bolt on the "enduro pitch" and the anchor above that on "recliner ledge" are suspect. I would feel better knowing they were new fatties.
Also the bolts on the "Terrace" still had Cold Shuts last year as well as at the base of the Chimney Pitch on the "Astro-Hulk" direct start to Positive Vibes.
Thanks for the effort upgrading any old bolts on Tradewinds and Venturi Effect..routes that deserve attention and maintenance from time to time.
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Scole
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Mar 20, 2015 - 07:37am PT
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Rule #1:
Never trust your life to a single point.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Mar 20, 2015 - 12:09pm PT
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Rule #1:
Never trust your life to a single point.
When 3/8-inch bolts were first used, circa late-80s, in Heuco Tanks, for a short while it was thought that since they were so big and burly a single bolt could be trusted for rappel anchors.
But this was short-lived. It was soon clear that, just like 1/4-inchers, they could not be relied upon 100% to be placed perfectly, in perfect rock, every time. And they would corrode with time, wear or loosen with use. Or a carabiner could come unclipped, or something.
Redundancy is such an important concept with climbing anchors of any kind.
Me, and most of my friends, have on rare occasion trusted a single anchor for retreat, rappel, whatever. But it is rare, it is a last resort. I inspect said anchor carefully before deciding it's gonna be OK. Bolts fail very rarely, so if I do this maybe once every 3 years the odds are very much against lowering from an anchor (maybe one out of several thousand?) that will fail under bodyweight.
The mistake here was to trust single anchors, over and over and over. All of a sudden, those odds are stacked heavily against you. Unfortunate judgement, in this case tragic.
We can replace every bolts in the USA but they will never all be 100% bombproof. They never were, they never will be. Climbing bolts were never intended for this kind of use.
Condolences for the family and friends of the victim.
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Ben909
Trad climber
toronto
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Mar 20, 2015 - 01:54pm PT
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Here is a tweak on the solo aid stick clip method that is most common. It strives to address a single bolt failure down low. The fall will still be severe, maybe screamers should be used on bolts 1 and 2.
How one decides to back up to bolt 2 is another discussion worth having. Do you anchor direct and risk a factor 2 fall onto it or do you butterfly to it in such a way that bolt 3 failing produces a favour one fall held by bolt 1. The butterfly would serve to keep you anchored in the event bolt 1 failed after bolt 3.
In any case, this limits your fall length to less than the distance between bolts and should keep you off the ground if bolt 3 fails. Depending on how things are bolted this might keep you off the ground for a bolt 2 failure as well. It's going to be serious, but it increases your chances of not decking. Once you are at a suitable height just remove the prussiks.
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Dimes
Social climber
Wonderland of Retirement
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Mar 20, 2015 - 02:42pm PT
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[photoid=403362]
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Dimes
Social climber
Wonderland of Retirement
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Mar 20, 2015 - 02:52pm PT
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For the bolts mentioned above from the Landlord in Joshua Tree, one reason for replacing bolts is to reduce their visual presence and minimize resource impact caused by rusting. Park visitors sometimes complain about the "rusty junk" that they see "up on the rock"! While this may not be much of a concern in the Gorge it is a big concern in the higher profile areas in Joshua Tree. That is one reason why stainless steel bolts and rock colored hangers are highly desirable.
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Dimes
Social climber
Wonderland of Retirement
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Mar 20, 2015 - 02:56pm PT
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Dimes
Social climber
Wonderland of Retirement
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Mar 20, 2015 - 02:59pm PT
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Dimes
Social climber
Wonderland of Retirement
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Mar 20, 2015 - 03:04pm PT
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[photoid=403367]
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Dimes
Social climber
Wonderland of Retirement
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Mar 20, 2015 - 03:28pm PT
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As Henny mentioned upthread, after 30 years of replacing bolts, you really can not tell what is going on behind that hanger. I/we have removed "bomber" looking bolts in "perfect" rock with little effort and then spent an extended amount of time on a ragged, rusty looking 1/4" "piece of junk".
My thoughts are never use the word "bomber" when referring to a fixed piece of gear. I will always trust a piece of gear that I have placed more than a fixed piece of gear that I have no idea as to who or how it was placed and what man made or environmental factors have influenced it since it was left behind for the masses. People often say they do not have the money to use all stainless or other suitable gear that is potentially safer and more sustainable when putting up new routes. I walked that road in the 70's and 80's and look back on it now as a regrettable life experience. I would encourage people who are establishing new routes to show some pride of ownership and use gear that is safer and more sustainable than your average hardware store goods. Also, consider the resource and reduce the visual presence as much as possible.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 20, 2015 - 04:14pm PT
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Rule #1:
Never trust your life to a single point.
Still there's only ONE single point in life that one can ever ultimately trust period.
Paradox ....
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