Netanyahu's Iran speech

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couchmaster

climber
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 3, 2015 - 05:47pm PT
Anyone else listen to it? The US has already been successful intervening in India, Pakistan and N. Korea to stop their march to join the nuclear club. WTF are the Jews worried about? Can't the great Satan (this must be a title of great affection as the Iranians commonly and regularly utilize it in their news media to describe the US) take care of it for them?



I've already told my Congressman what I thought. Your thoughts?





apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 3, 2015 - 05:48pm PT
My thoughts?

We don't need another polititard thread.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 3, 2015 - 06:13pm PT
Washington learned the futility of standing there talking too.
crankster

Trad climber
Mar 3, 2015 - 06:47pm PT
Go home, creep.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 3, 2015 - 06:55pm PT
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 3, 2015 - 07:26pm PT
The US has already been successful intervening in India, Pakistan and N. Korea...

You can't be serious with this statement. We have failed repeatedly and abysmally in every respect with regard to limiting nukes in India, Pakistan and N. Korea.


climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 3, 2015 - 07:42pm PT
You missed the ones in the red sea and Persian gulf..
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Mar 3, 2015 - 09:53pm PT
It was a brilliant speech. Netanyahu took a page right out of Dick Cheney's playbook and pandered to the lowest common denominator--fear.

Curt
10b4me

Social climber
Mar 3, 2015 - 10:01pm PT
Iran has more to fear from Israel than vice versa. Afterall, Israel has nukes, and a nut for prime minister.
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Mar 3, 2015 - 10:18pm PT
Let's send Congress to Israel.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Mar 3, 2015 - 10:34pm PT
Netanyahu demonstrated leadership and guts in standing up to those forces in the world that clearly have ambitions to destroy both Isreal and the West.

Netanyahu is despised by the idiotically deranged Left because he made their "leader" Obama look like what he clearly is : a weak , incompetent,and very small malignant narcissist ,who views both Isreal and American conservatives as a greater threat than Islamist terrorist regimes, who Obama obviously harbors sympathies for.


.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 3, 2015 - 10:42pm PT
I was wondering when a Republican would chime in with a good Netan-balljob.
cavemonkey

Ice climber
ak
Mar 3, 2015 - 10:45pm PT
Shut up politards!!!!
Gal

Trad climber
going big air to fakie
Mar 3, 2015 - 10:56pm PT
I feel that Flip Flop's suggestion is only fair.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 4, 2015 - 12:00am PT
I'm not particularly happy about the head of state of a foreign country trying to subvert the policy of the United States, and I'm particularly not happy about the Speaker helping to do it.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 4, 2015 - 03:23am PT
I'm not particularly happy about the head of state of a foreign country trying to subvert the policy of the United States, and I'm particularly not happy about the Speaker helping to do it.


Agreed.

All this was, is another installment of mugging the US Taxpayers for money, to add to our debt.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Mar 4, 2015 - 03:37am PT
I didn't listen to the speech. I pay little attention to the media, except for books.

One book which is relatively current, Fallen Angel (#12 in the Gabriel Allon series) by Daniel Silva, is briefly described in this blog.
http://www.housewifespice.com/2014/08/wwrw-paperback-novel.html

I understand there are many hidden currents under the surface of things.

The Israelis, if you take Daniel Silva's view, are masters of deception and more clever at it than the Islamic terrorists. All bias is based on one's roots, and Silva is at least half Portugese and Catholic...I've met his mother in the bookstore (Second Time Around on Main Street in Merced) several times.

She is or was very upset over her son's marriage to a Jew, apparently, and also at his taking liberties with the top echelons of Roman Catholicism. She is a retired teacher. She is very authoritarian.

She is entitled to her views, like anybody else; she is not afraid to speak her mind; and I'm glad she chose to share them with me, her bookseller but not her confessor. :0)

It gave me something to think on as I read through the entire series. The Israelis are only 12 million against an overwhelming number of Muslim neighbors, most of whom would like nothing better than the annihilation of the Zionist state. Unless it's the radical conversion of the Christian world.

There is no talk of Hinduism, of buddhism, or moonies. Just the conflicts among the three Abrahamic religions.

The problem as the Israelis see it is that the Muslims are run by the fercocktah imams. There is the problem of the Palestinians and their plight, but there are ample places for them to go and settle among their coreligionists. The Israelis accept virtually all Jews who wish to move in with their relatives.

I've always tended to agree with author Leon Uris, who pointed out in his novel The Haj that Islam is a harsh religion which fits into a harsh way of existence, a generalization of the Muslim as a nomadic dweller in the desert, but still a sensible approach to viewing the religion.

I suggest you stop listening to politicians, especially since they lie and obfuscate pretty much like spies and spooks. At least take their words as just words and look at the actions of the characters involved in the Middle East's ongoing crisis.

It's the longest-lasting crisis in history so it must be important.

And it's always good for a thread topic.

My two dinars.

[Click to View YouTube Video]



Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 4, 2015 - 07:16am PT
It's the longest-lasting crisis in history so it must be important.

Mouse, you haven't been with me to visit the mother- in-law.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 4, 2015 - 07:33am PT
I understand there are many hidden currents under the surface of things.

No Sh@T? You mean people would respond in this thread without bothering to know exactly wtf is going on?

Go figure.
WBraun

climber
Mar 4, 2015 - 07:46am PT
He's an international war criminal, mass Murderer and this planets biggest terrorist.

Most Americans have no clue what this fukhead has really done in the last 20 years.

He's so insane that even his own intelligent agencies are now going against this aszhole.

Finally!!

Mossad even came out publicly against him which is unheard of.

He comes from a total criminal background.

He should have been arrested the minute he stepped into the USA.

The US Air force has been jokingly openly talking they wanted to shoot down the fukheads plane.

Obama deserve highest accolades standing up and for finally telling this creep to fuk off.

Oooooorrrahhhh !!!!!

Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Mar 4, 2015 - 08:00am PT
Ward, are you a de facto Israeli or a muscular american christian. Stupid has many faces.

Go Ducks!
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 4, 2015 - 08:01am PT
Prolly most Americans missed the recent videos of ISIS head shooting dozens of captured Iranian soldiers. Fact is, Iran, has more compelling problems than Israel right now and needs a sanction easing deal. They're locked in battles in Tikret and Diayla Provice right now, with the Sunnis/ISIS.

Not to say, Iran doesn't desparately need a nuke. They're surrounded by enemies one of whom has nukes. But Israel would be down the list of whom they would drop it on.

But Israel sees an opening to extract money and that's what this is about. Our President has it exactly right. Let this whiney little bitch come and let him go.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 4, 2015 - 08:12am PT
I heard that US Air Force Fighters had to protect Iran from a Secret Israel Bombing mission

Now we have to Protect Iran from terrorist attacks!


We should help Iran build some Solar Factories, so they can move away from nuclear power
And then they will only need the bomb to protect themselves from Israel.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujň de la Playa
Mar 4, 2015 - 08:19am PT


... Peru has no nuclear energy or nuclear infrastructure of any kind and so doesn’t have a latency period. Sweden has nuclear energy but insufficient infrastructure to make a weapon in less than about five years, so its latency period is about five years. Iran’s latency period is about 6 months. Through political negotiation and economic pressure, they are now not expected to pursue the final steps to a weapon. But their latency period will likely always be less than a year.
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Mar 4, 2015 - 08:20am PT
The many faces of stupid.

but there are ample places for them to go and settle among their coreligionists.

It's called ethnic cleansing.

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 4, 2015 - 08:21am PT
There is the problem of the Palestinians and their plight, but there are ample places for them to go

The number one problem of the Palestinians and "their plight", is thinking like this...
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 4, 2015 - 08:29am PT
as has been noted
His speech offered Zero Solutions

It was nothing more than fear mongering about an exaggerated threat
Typical Neo-Con strategy, create more fear and let them protect you from those bad people, you little cowardly pussy.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Mar 4, 2015 - 08:32am PT
Wow .... Most of you guys are really stupid... esp "The Duck".

Just remember when the nukes start flying... it will not stop.

Who do you trust?

Iran?
Psilocyborg

climber
Mar 4, 2015 - 08:39am PT
Who do you trust?

Absolutely no one. I don't trust my neighbor let alone my government or Iran.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 4, 2015 - 08:40am PT
Who do you trust?

No one.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 4, 2015 - 08:51am PT
Nancy Pelosi said said she was "near tears" during Netanyahu's speach.
That statement nearly brings me to tears. Shouldn't there be a minimum IQ
requirement to run for Congress?
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 4, 2015 - 08:52am PT
There is.

Congressmen all have minimum IQs.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 4, 2015 - 08:53am PT
Yes there should be minimum IQ level
To bad the current Repubs wouldn't be able to qualify for their job
Since they hate Gov. jobs, you got be pretty stupid to work for something your working against


Nancy was in tears because of what the Republicans have done to the Institution of the Congress of the United States.

It was disgrace.

Tvash

climber
Seattle
Mar 4, 2015 - 08:54am PT
Ward, report to my office immediately for hyperbole detention.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Mar 4, 2015 - 09:17am PT
Flip Flop, neither of us is stupid.
Stop with the first grade debate tactics.
Epithreats will never reach me.
Didn't your teachers teach thee?

And Healyje, the Pals got more to worry about than my bleeding heart.
I'm sorry for their plight. As the maps you show clearly indicate, they have been treated just like our own Native Americans were treated in the main by our ancestors and their government, except they weren't my ancestors, because they didn't arrive here until the 1880s.

This doesn't mean I cannot accept, as a citizen, part of the blame.

And why don't we talk about Ireland, poor defenseless Ireland? Hmmm?

We can use some of your nice green maps! :0)
Eric Beck

Sport climber
Bishop, California
Mar 4, 2015 - 09:18am PT
FlipFlop presents an interesting map. Israel will never give up the West Bank. 25% of their water comes from there.
CA.Timothy

climber
California
Mar 4, 2015 - 09:33am PT
As soon as the US gets an administration that stops propping up Israel as a matter of policy, a mixture of Arab nations will set upon them (rightfully so in my opinion), forcing Israel to drop a nuke on at least one of the Arab nations.

Even though I dont want my/our money to support Israel, I dont want them dropping a nuke on some Arab nation either in the interest of 'self defense'

Is the annual 3 billion dollars we give to Israel and the continued persecution of the Palestinian race worth staving off nuclear war?
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Mar 4, 2015 - 09:41am PT
Who are we supposed to hate this week again?
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Mar 4, 2015 - 09:44am PT
Iran has not invaded any country for 200+ years and certainly knows using a nuclear weapon would ensure its destruction. I don't want it to have one but the imminent doom rhetoric isn't realistic.
CA.Timothy

climber
California
Mar 4, 2015 - 09:49am PT
ron, many of the countries you listed hate us because we support Israel.(among other things like flying drones into wedding parties)


maybe we should try and stop doing the things that piss them off?
CA.Timothy

climber
California
Mar 4, 2015 - 09:54am PT
1. Iran is not Arab. It is not an "Arab nation."
ok DMT, several Arab nations with mixed Bedouin ancestor and one Persian nation will set upon them. better? sorry for speaking in generalities.

The average Iranian isn't a US flag burning jihadist. Frankly they're not all that into jihad; they have too much to lose. Iranians are more like US citizens than say the average Saudi or Iraqi or what have you.

I also am not sure if being 'pro jihad', whatever that means, and being anti Israel is the same thing. I know five Persians I met while at UCSD. They were as into American culture as any native born kid. They considered themselves Muslim by culture, not religion. No interest in radical Islam, or living a religious life. But mention Israel or US/Israel relations and you could get their blood boiling
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Mar 4, 2015 - 09:58am PT
Africa is not a country.

CA.Timothy

climber
California
Mar 4, 2015 - 10:04am PT
they saw that as the only chance they had to return to being just the Persians they want to be

like life under the shah, with the rich classes awash in US dollars?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Mar 4, 2015 - 10:11am PT
Give every nation in the region one nuke and short range (500 miles or less) delivery system, seal our borders. Repeat the process until self correction has been achieved. Lots of the fanatics in the region want to enact armegeddon and return to the the stone age , let em have it. Just think about the benefits; reduction of overpopulation, eliminate the regional unemployment problem, taking the majority of CO2 producing FF's off the market, a small nuclear winter to alleviate the phony global warming, huge savings in foreign aid, not having to hear Israel's constant whining or Iran's constant chants of "death to America", reduction in the nuclear stockpile, etc. etc.

Tvash

climber
Seattle
Mar 4, 2015 - 10:13am PT
If we're worried about CO2 emissions, we can just nuke ourselves.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Mar 4, 2015 - 10:17am PT
Goid idea. We can start by arming the partisan hacks in congress. Way to hot under the collar there.
two-shoes

Trad climber
Auberry, CA
Mar 4, 2015 - 10:26am PT
The smoking duck knows what he's talking about.

I might add that the Israelis learned much this crap from the Nazis, that's not my opinion, it's a fact. We learned a lot of this crap from the Israelis, and now school much of the central american states special forces in what is known as anti-communist counterinsurgency, a nice phrase for something akin to mafia tactics gone big-time! This school is at Fort Benning Georgia and is called the Western Hemisphere Institute For Security Cooperation. They teach death and destruction. It was formerly called The School of the Americas, but changed their name because the former already had too bad of a reputation. Torture is one of the little tools that is taught there. Manuel Noriega, ruthless Panamanian dictator from 1983 to 1989 was only one of their most infamous of their graduates.

Netanyahu, in my opinion, is on par with Manuel Noriega. Al Capone had nothing on this monster!
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Mar 4, 2015 - 10:59am PT
has hot under the collar been verbed?
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 4, 2015 - 11:01am PT
The “Nazi” Netanyahu is just trying to downplay his war [genocide] crimes trying to sweep then under the rug.

Plus just like his fellow corrupt politicians before him, he will find a way to bribe or to make sure the votes in his upcoming election will favor him now that Congress [mostly Republicans] gave him a standing ovation for his ISIL speech.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 4, 2015 - 11:04am PT
Nancy was in tears because of what the Republicans have done to the Institution of the Congress of the United States.

posting what Nancy Pelosi said is some stupid sh#t?
sorry
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 4, 2015 - 11:08am PT
It's genocide by other means...

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 4, 2015 - 11:13am PT
Iran is run by a Shite apocalyptic cult that believe they are on a mission from allah to hasten the resurrection of a dead boy in a well and the end of the world by provoking Armageddon.

They don't want or need a nuke for defense, they want one to use on the "little satan" and the "great satan".

In 2009 they slaughtered thousands of their own young when their power was challenged. They hang gays, Christians and anyone else deemed apostate from cranes in the public squares on a regular basis.

If they get their hands on nukes they will use them.



Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 4, 2015 - 11:21am PT
For those who live in LA, there is a series of free lectures by people in the middle of all this:

http://www.international.ucla.edu/burkle

crankster

Trad climber
Mar 4, 2015 - 11:36am PT
It was all a political stunt manufactured by the rightwing extremists that run congress. All hawkish bluster to try to get the US into a war; nothing new said. Go home, Bibi, your election is in 2 weeks
10b4me

Social climber
Mar 4, 2015 - 12:06pm PT
I heard that US Air Force Fighters had to protect Iran from a Secret Israel Bombing mission

don't know if that is true or not, but I think that if Iran does develop a nuke, Israel will attack them. Then all hell will break loose.

To those that support Israel, why?
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Mar 4, 2015 - 12:07pm PT
Question to CA.Timothy......

Do you support the United Nations?
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Mar 4, 2015 - 12:13pm PT
FRY said.....

Since they hate Gov. jobs,

Craig with all due respect I ask you.


How many government workers (workers paid with tax $$) must we have?

as a percentage?

as a ratio?


OH sorry to derail.
two-shoes

Trad climber
Auberry, CA
Mar 4, 2015 - 12:16pm PT
Some people only talk in sound bites on here. Rather telling about where they get their opinions, as it is only opinions, not based on too much of anything factual. Sounds cute and knowledgeable to some I guess.
crankster

Trad climber
Mar 4, 2015 - 12:19pm PT
Plain and simple, the US stance is to not allow Iran to develop nuclear weapons. Period. If sanctions and talks don't work and there is evidence they are developing a weapon, then the bombs will fall.
CA.Timothy

climber
California
Mar 4, 2015 - 12:24pm PT
Question to CA.Timothy......

Do you support the United Nations?


I actually subscribe to this camp...

EDIT

Yes, I support them.
crankster

Trad climber
Mar 4, 2015 - 12:35pm PT
DMT, I said if they are seen to be developing a nuke. They won't be allowed to gets as far as actually producing a working bomb.
Jones in LA

Mountain climber
Tarzana, California
Mar 4, 2015 - 01:28pm PT
I give Netanyahu, Boehner, and Israel's Ambassador Ron Dermer a full 10 out of 10 points for juvenile political jiggery-pokery. It's shameful.

Then there's this little gem, drawn up by a normally left-leaning political cartoonist nine years ago. Who would'a thought that people would actually go out and kill a bunch of other people because they were pissed off about cartoons?


The prospect of dealing with a nuclear-armed Iran is a mind-bender for those of us who spent most of our lives in the Cold War. It was the principle of Mutually Assured Destruction that kept the Cold War from going hot. Imagine Iran lobbing a relatively primitive nuclear bomb or two into a small, nuclear-armed country and wiping out 4 million out of its 8 million inhabitants. Then, that country retaliates with more, bigger, better nuclear bombs and vaporizes 15 million Iranians. The high value that religious extremists place on their own martyrdom changes the equation completely, so I think Iran would consider that exchange to be a great success. I'm not sure what deterrence would even look like with a nuclear-armed Iran. Regarding the current debate on how best to keep Iran from producing nuclear weapons, I don't think any US President will want his or her legacy to be: The One who let Iran get the bomb. Thus, I think extraordinary effort will be put into preventing it from happening, regardless of who is in the White House.

Rich Jones
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 4, 2015 - 01:47pm PT
What's rational about an apocalyptic religious cult?

Hell, they flog and cut themselves every year just for fun.




guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Mar 4, 2015 - 01:49pm PT
Agree with Rich Jones.....

And CA.Timothy..... so you support the UN.

Did you know that the UN created Israel??

Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Mar 4, 2015 - 02:30pm PT
Can somoene remind me why we support Israel?

Oh, because Israel supports us in our war against terror.

The terror caused by our support of Israel........
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 4, 2015 - 02:49pm PT
WTF?
WTF, maybe you should do some research before making a fool out of yourself


WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi said she was "near tears" during a speech to Congress by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Tuesday. Pelosi, a California Democrat, said she was "saddened by the insult to the intelligence of the United States" as part of a group of nations negotiating a nuclear deal with Iran.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/pelosi-says-she-was-near-tears-during-netanyahu-speech-2015-03-03


Nancy Pelosi Says Netanyahu's 'Insulting' Speech Had Her 'Near Tears'

Mar 3, 2015 1:02 PM PST


The House minority leader issued a strong rebuke of the Israeli prime minister's speech.

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-03-03/nancy-pelosi-says-netanyahu-s-insulting-speech-had-her-near-tears-
dirtbag

climber
Mar 4, 2015 - 03:43pm PT
Isn't it nice to see that the same hawkish idiots who supported Bush's failed Mideast adventures have learned absolutely nothing?
crankster

Trad climber
Mar 4, 2015 - 03:50pm PT
What Jim said.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 4, 2015 - 03:54pm PT
The prospect of dealing with a nuclear-armed Iran is a mind-bender for those of us who spent most of our lives in the Cold War.

Under any and all circumstances I'd far rather be dealing with a nuclear-armed Iran than a nuclear-armed Pakistan. The former is manageable, the latter a nightmare at every turn.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 4, 2015 - 03:58pm PT
healyje, you must enjoy a nice drive on the odd late Friday nite through
East LA to Compton. Kinda the same.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Mar 4, 2015 - 04:12pm PT
Yeah, just you guys wait until Alabama gets the bomb.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 4, 2015 - 04:21pm PT
Alabama? How about Nevadastan. They would nuke the US government faster than Iran or Israel.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 4, 2015 - 04:37pm PT
healyje, you must enjoy a nice drive on the odd late Friday nite through East LA to Compton. Kinda the same.

Yeah, been there and East St. Louis - same, same.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 4, 2015 - 04:48pm PT
Isn't it nice to see that the same hawkish idiots who supported Bush's failed Mideast adventures have learned absolutely nothing?

One apparently did, at least in this case .. very surprised to hear this from Susan Rice of all people.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/03/02/susan-rice-tells-israel-lobbyists-their-demands-are-unachievable/
“We cannot let a totally unachievable ideal stand in the way of a good deal,”
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 4, 2015 - 04:52pm PT
Does east Portland suffer from bad beard trims ? It confuses the reverent.

We are currently weathering a wave of lumbersexualism, so that would be a yes.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 4, 2015 - 05:00pm PT
Have you actually met anyone from Iran ? They are indeed, quite like Americans. They are the original merchant class who like to make a buck and be truly free as entrepreneurs.

yes I have.

The LA area is thick with them.

All here to escape the nut cases that are running their homeland.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Mar 4, 2015 - 05:35pm PT
All here to escape the nut cases that are running their homeland.

Yeah, said nutcases were slowly being eased out by more moderate politicians, when George W. conveniently made the nutcases point that the Americans were f*#king violent whack jobs intent on destroying the middle-east.

Thanks, W.!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 4, 2015 - 05:46pm PT
said nutcases were slowly being eased out by more moderate politicians

That is wishful thinking, at best. The Revolutionary Guard still runs the
country (and much of the economy) and they do so with the blessings of the
mullahs. Any semblance of parliamentary government is purely window dressing.
To the extent that hand-wringing westerners perceive some veneer of
rapprochement it is purely a ploy to wrest concessions from the sanctions.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 4, 2015 - 05:48pm PT
One apparently did, at least in this case .. very surprised to hear this from Susan Rice of all people.

Are you confusing Susan Rice with Condoleezza Rice?
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Mar 4, 2015 - 05:51pm PT
You Americans should focus on America.

Fix America first,

The Duck speaks wise.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 4, 2015 - 06:08pm PT
You Americans should focus on America.

Fix America first,

Yup. I heard the estimate to fix alla these busted up bridges all over America, was 500 Billion. So double that for the usual cost overruns.

And there's a Trillion Dollars. What we supposedly spent on the Second Iraq War.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 4, 2015 - 06:27pm PT
Are you confusing Susan Rice with Condoleezza Rice?

Yes!.. I knew something had to be wrong. Ha
crankster

Trad climber
Mar 4, 2015 - 07:52pm PT

Mar 4, 2015 - 05:50pm PT
You Americans should focus on America.

Fix America first,

America is still all fuked up and full of it's own nutcases.

What do you think we're doing, Tinkerbell?
Klimmer

Mountain climber
Mar 4, 2015 - 10:40pm PT
"Forgive them Father for they know not what they say or do." (Klimmer paraphrase)


The moment we (USA) as a nation turn our backs on Israel and the Jews (G-d's chosen people to bring salvation to the world) and we no longer support them or come to their aid or fight along side our ally to defend the Jews and the nation of Israel, is the moment our country comes to a swift end.

"I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse those who curse you."
(HaShem's eternal covenant)


There are cosmic powers at war and we are caught in the middle. There is no "Palestine." That was a made up derogatory name given by a Roman leader overseeing Judea to denigrate the Jews. Palestine means land of the Philistines, an arch enemy of Israel and the Jews. The Promised Land, Israel, is the Jews only nation. G-d gave it to them. Who are you to say its not theirs or to try to allow others to take it from them?

Why do you think the Jews, The people of Israel, have been the most persecuted people in all of history? Satan, Lucifer, hates Israel and the Jews. They brought forth G-d's word, the Torah, the Tenahk, Judaism (the way G-d wants to be worshipped), Salvation to the World through Yeshua HaMashiach, The Messiah, and so much more. G-d had to use a people and he chose Abraham and specific chosen descendants of the promise, of the covenant. And yet despite being the most persecuted people in all history, they miraculously survive by divine intervention and they overcome. Every nation who has come against them has seen their end. Why is that? They are G-d's chosen people and it comes with a huge responsibility and it isn't easy. It's the hardest.

I stand with Netanyahu. He's a true leader. He knows what's at stake.

People read your Bible. Understand what we are now living through. It was all foretold. G-d told you what's going to happen and to be prepared. Do not get caught unprepared or unaware.


Watch the full speech and includes transcript:
http://www.vox.com/2015/3/3/8140947/netanyahu-speech-congress-watch


Full Netanyahu speech on PBS NewsHour Youtube:
http://youtu.be/-pOs99OZN1g
dirtbag

climber
Mar 4, 2015 - 10:50pm PT
Please see a psychiatrist.

You've lost it, man.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
Mar 4, 2015 - 10:53pm PT
DB,

What will you say to G-d when you come before him?
dirtbag

climber
Mar 4, 2015 - 10:58pm PT
I not going to play along with your delusions by answering your questions.

Get help.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
Mar 4, 2015 - 11:01pm PT
G-d's eternal help is being offered to you yet you reject it.
WBraun

climber
Mar 4, 2015 - 11:03pm PT
G-d's eternal help is being offered to you yet you reject it.


In the form of Benjamin Netanyahu?

You'd be better off taking dirtbags advice ......
Klimmer

Mountain climber
Mar 4, 2015 - 11:07pm PT
WB,

That was in reference to salvation. Netanyahu can't give that. Only G-d.

Bibi is the PM of Israel. He's not G-d. He is the best leader to protect G-d's people and nation of Israel at this moment.

He spoke the complete truth in his speech. Tell me what part of his speech you disagree with and why. The link to the transcript is posted above.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 4, 2015 - 11:15pm PT
What will you say to g-d when you come before him?
If that complete fantasy were to come to pass I'd be way too busy aiming a kick to the balls to waste a breath saying anything...
Klimmer

Mountain climber
Mar 4, 2015 - 11:36pm PT
HJ,

So you admit that you hate G-d and you want nothing to do with him.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 4, 2015 - 11:37pm PT
No, I'm saying gods of all stripes are fantasies used to control populations through fear.
crankster

Trad climber
Mar 5, 2015 - 05:28am PT
It was a campaign speech, nothing more.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 5, 2015 - 07:31am PT
How many times has an American or Israeli said:
"We have to Bomb Iran, they might get a nuke"

Maybe a lot more times than Iran has said they want to destroy Israel.

In fact, we have bombed them already!, and also stopped bombing raids!

Here is the difference between a liberal and a conservative

A liberal can think about "What if I was a Iranian, how would I feel about this issue",
"I would rather not be bombed, please let's work this out peacefully!"

A conservative can never do that, they just see it issue as us against "Them"
They have no compassion for what "Them" might feel.

They can easily demonize Iranians because of the constant BS propaganda, so it's easy to think of "Them" as the enemy that need to bombed.


and then there is the fact that Iran has never invaded another Country.
Israel and America have quite a different record

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 5, 2015 - 07:41am PT
Separation of church and state isreali!

The world needs to rid radical thinking.

Jesus Christ is master cult leader.
Mohammed is another cult leader.
Moses patriarch is another cult leader.
WBraun

climber
Mar 5, 2015 - 07:49am PT
Democrazy = another cult leader.

Capitalism = another cult leader.

Materialism = another cult leader.

Americans are stooopid ....
10b4me

Social climber
Mar 5, 2015 - 07:56am PT
What will you say to G-d when you come before him?

Who?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 5, 2015 - 08:05am PT
I'd call god an idiot!
we have to deal with religious
Nuts!
Going to hell for this and that!

Who wants to have everlasting life..

No thank you!


I hope Iran goes nuclear.
crankster

Trad climber
Mar 5, 2015 - 08:49am PT
Thanks for checking in, S(pud). Why are you here so much and not out climbing or shooting at something?
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Mar 5, 2015 - 09:19am PT
Rest uneasy, Unbeliever, My Invisible Sock M-nkey will have the last laugh.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Mar 5, 2015 - 09:56am PT
New war, new friends. Same as it ever was.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 5, 2015 - 10:02am PT
Crusades = religion

Caliphates = religion

Inquisitions = religion

Rape of Mexico = religion

Cults = religion

Resistance to science = religion

Shia/ Sunni hate = religion

Hindu/Muslim hate = religion

Arab/Jew hate = religion

ISIS = religion

Hamas = religion

Hezbollah = religion

Al Shabab = religion

Boko Haram = religion



What a great thing religion is. Please sir, may I have another?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 5, 2015 - 10:06am PT
Who is ISIS?

The Iraq faction is mostly the Iraqi Army that Bush liberated,
meaning threw out onto the street.


and quickly became insurgents fighting against the American Occupying force

Bush could have had a plan going into Iraq, but he forgo that for "Shock en Awe"

The Neo-Con dream, "lets' destroy this country and then impose our Libertarian Gov. ideology here in this fresh new vacuum we just created."
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 5, 2015 - 10:12am PT
Any kind of unchecked group-think is the danger....

to add to those listed above:

Nationalism = Cult thinking

I've got a good friend who's an Army Ranger and is headed back to the ME for the fourth time. I have to bite my tongue so hard when he starts spouting off about "killing those savages".... He's not a dumb guy either but completely falls for whatever propaganda is presented that paints all of them over there as potential threats.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 5, 2015 - 10:14am PT
Who is ISIS?

The current estimate, is that ISIS has about 30,000 "foreign fighters". That's 30,000 potential terrorists that voluntarily assigned themselves the status of terrorist and deported themselves. Even paid their own transportation. In the end, ISIS, may be one of the best things to ever happen.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 5, 2015 - 10:59am PT
Yes, if only combat troops remained another 10 years, everything would be hunky dory. Lol.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 5, 2015 - 11:03am PT
Ron said Bush WARNED US!! Tee hee, what a friggin' statesman that dude was eh?
"The dems out voted him." He SIGNED the withdrawal order Ron.

He also said "Bring 'em on."

He also said nucular......
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 5, 2015 - 11:06am PT
Yes, Bush warned us about leaving Iraq to soon
Then signed the agreement with Iraq to remove all the troops in 2011

Did you forget that part ron?

Who cares what Bush said, it's all about what he did....
Bush removed the troops that allowed ISIS to develop, Not Obama


Bush is 100% responsible for the formation of ISIS
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 5, 2015 - 11:18am PT
I find the reference to group think ironically relevant to this thread. So few in the U.S. - and on Super Topo - have any real knowledge of the complexities of middle eastern events, so we end up parroting those we already tend to believe.

John
dirtbag

climber
Mar 5, 2015 - 12:15pm PT
I know that many younger Iranians dream of the USA invading them.

I.e., a couple of Ron's duck hunting/drinking buddies told him that.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Mar 5, 2015 - 12:19pm PT
^^^WTF^^^ <- Ron's post

From what I read in this thread and how little I know, my money is on John's post above. I do a fair bit of reading on the subject and have had interesting conversations with friends and townfolk alike recently. It seems to be a common topic these days. The idea that we think we know what is right over there via our eyes,thoughts,culture,ego and what we are fed is quite telling of our modern culture of knowing.

John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 5, 2015 - 01:14pm PT

Right now, Iran is taking the war to ISIS and in Sunni territory. Things haven't gone particularly well for them, dozens of their soldiers have been executed by ISIS on video. To put that in perspective, imagine the outrage here, were it our soldiers.

Israel, is far down the list of Iranian problems. NetanYahoos speech was a cynical marker to milk Congress for more money. He gets a promise of money, he gets re-elected.

John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 5, 2015 - 01:38pm PT
Because the Sunni threat, is far more serious than anything posed by Israel. Also, a major Shia Shrine is in that Province.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 5, 2015 - 01:40pm PT
WHY???
Because they border IRAQ, all that land to the East of Iraq is IRAN.
That's Why?

If you didn't know that, maybe you just leave this discussion so you don't make more of a fool of yourself
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Mar 5, 2015 - 01:53pm PT
serious question: WHY on earth would Iran involve itself there now?
Serious answer: because we, quite conveniently for them, made Iraq an Iranian puppet state. By getting rid of Saddam we made one of their old enemies an ally, now they are fighting to defend that ally.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Mar 5, 2015 - 02:54pm PT
Now you got it, Ron. A group of Saudis fly airliners into the WTC, so we invade Iraq. Perfectly clear.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 5, 2015 - 03:04pm PT
Yes because a perfect nuke vs a mediocre nuke is very important. It would be so embarrassing to wipe out only part of Tel Aviv.

I am curious though why would devout muslims risk radiating Jerusalem?
jonnyrig

climber
Mar 5, 2015 - 03:13pm PT
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/06/world/europe/two-outcomes-similar-paths-radical-muslim-and-neo-nazi.html?partner=msft_msn&_r=0
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 5, 2015 - 03:18pm PT
Good article jonnyrig.

Whatever the truth and the outcome 30-50 years down the road, that dude in Ron's Belgium video was creepy.

crankster

Trad climber
Mar 5, 2015 - 03:48pm PT
Clearly, the President needs to check in with the Supertopo foreign policy experts. Those military brass just don't have enough experience, they need advice from the aging rock climber crowd.

This is true
Bush is 100% responsible for the formation of ISIS
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 5, 2015 - 03:54pm PT
Everything ever uttered about Iran building a Nuclear Bomb has been speculation, kind of like the same speculation that Bush said about Iraq having WMD

The head of State of Iran said that Iran is forbidden to build a bomb by decree of a fatwa against it!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

As the head of state of Iran, Khamenei is considered the most powerful political authority in Iran.[5][6]
Like Ruhollah Khomeini, Ali Khamenei has also issued a fatwa saying the production, stockpiling and use of nuclear weapons is forbidden under Islam


Israel intel says that Iran isn't even trying to build the bomb, But the Neo-Con Nytanyahu doesn't care about facts, just like Bush.

"Mossad contradicted Netanyahu on Iran nuclear programme"
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/02/leaks-netanyahu-misled-iran-nuclear-programme-guardian-iran-nuclear-speech-2012-150218165622065.html
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 5, 2015 - 04:47pm PT
Everything ever uttered about Iran building a Nuclear Bomb has been speculation

So now you don't believe Hillary, Kerry, or Obama?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 5, 2015 - 04:57pm PT
I believe facts
and I'm not sure what everyone has said or believe

but agreed with the below
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 5, 2015 - 05:00pm PT
All I'm sayin' is that Kerry and Obama just might have access to some info
you and I aren't privy to, dontchya think? I'm not sayin' it's as good as
the info Bush had that he conned all those Dems into signing off on but
I hope it is.
feynman

Trad climber
chossberta
Mar 5, 2015 - 08:37pm PT
A link to the last time the same situation came up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera

Also adds a bit of context to the 90's gulf wars...
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 6, 2015 - 06:14am PT
Achieve caliphate!

All us supetopo non Muslims are going to be cleared
from this world...
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Mar 6, 2015 - 07:45am PT
Idiots taking up the cross for their Roman overlord. What a bunch of butt tunnels.
couchmaster

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 8, 2015 - 10:24am PT
The US has already been successful intervening in India, Pakistan and N. Korea...

PER QUOTE:
"You can't be serious with this statement. We have failed repeatedly and abysmally in every respect with regard to limiting nukes in India, Pakistan and N. Korea."

Satire clearly escapes you? Regarding India and the CIA's total lack of knowledge that they had a bomb until the Indians set both it, and the worlds seismic monitors off. Director of the CIA George Tenet admitted to utter and total ignorance from the US intelligence community. Quoted verbatum from the prologue on Page 8, James Risens book State of War : "And in May 1989, when the CIA was caught by surprise by India's testing of a nuclear bomb, Tenet had to deal with the consequences of the first major intelligence failure to occur on his watch. As soon as the news broke, Tenet talked by phone with Senator Richard C. Shelby, the wily Alabama Republican who was the chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.
"George, what happened?" Shelby asked.
"Senator," Tenet replied, "we didn't have a clue." "

So that was India. We knew nothing of it in advance. Of course, you are free to google what at the time the US felt were successful negotiations in advance to stop both the Pakistanis and the North Koreans from achieving the same. Only in retrospect did we learn that what we perceived were our brilliance and amazing wins in negotiations were in fact only short term cover to a total and utter failure.

We are 1 for 4 at this point. Ukraine was talked into returning the Russian nuc's to them by the Bush administration. Much to their current chargrine I would imagine.

Whereas the Israelis currently are 2 wins and 0 losses. Win in Iraq. Win in Syria. But of course, there would be no reason to expect that the Israelis would be any better at this game than we are. (HEY, THAT LAST ONE WAS ALSO A SATIRICAL STATEMENT OK?)

Well, except for the fact that they have been repeatedly alerting us to gaps in what we perceive Iran has done VS what we think they have done. There is that of course. (NOT A SATIRICAL STATEMENT

I hope that helps some of you.

For anyone wanting more info on what douchbags the Americans are to the Iranians or how disliked we are (we are still The Great Satan to them, as funny as that might sound when put into a comedy script). I read these Iranian news sites regularly and would suggest the same to you.

http://www.presstv.ir/

http://english.farsnews.com/

Be aware that they only publish the negative things about both the US and Israel, most are true, but they have copied word for word off the Onion before without attribution belive the story was true, AND NOT SATIRE. I guess some of us share that with them:-)
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 8, 2015 - 10:50am PT
Wow, hindsight is sooooo convenient when necessary, and lacking when needed.

All of these problem countries were chopped up BITD by colonialists. India/Pakistan, Iran/Iraq, Jordan, Zimbabwe, etc...

The 'successful' countries were governed by moderate leaders, that Netanyahu pointed out, were governed in a manner that was friendly to the free world. They were calm and co-habitable.

Other countries fell into despotism. They were ruled by tyrants who would not accept the 'world view' of peace. It was their way or nothing.

That's what Saddam and his sons did not understand, yet Ghaddafi did, as well as el-Sisi of Egypt, and the KIng of Jordan.

Netanyahu is a student and warrior in this fight. He knows these people, as well as which ones can and cannot be trusted. Which ones are capable of peace, and which ones will never settle for peace.

Iran, more specifically the leaders in Iran, are the problem. They are the festering wound in the Middle East. The sooner they are assassinated or removed, the better. It will save numerous lives.

Iran is the root of terrorism and conflict in Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and even South America.

What the Middle East/US/Allies need to decide is who will take control of the country once my plan is carried out. The people of Iran are quite moderate, they are begging for a moderate leader.

Bullets to heads of the Mullahs.....
couchmaster

climber
Topic Author's Reply - May 5, 2015 - 03:28pm PT
Just read an excellent article on this subject I want to share as it is both worthy of discussion and fits into the threads subject matter. I would like to see if any Supertopians can rebut the actual facts of it. I almost blew it off due to what I consider a inflammatory title, but after reading it I'm glad that I didn't. Full version quoted although there are a lot of links in the article that bolster the guys case if anyone wants to follow them to work up their rebuttal: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/05/the_obama_deceit_doctrine.html

" May 5, 2015
The Obama Deceit Doctrine
By Ed Lasky

Americans (at least those paying any attention) know that Barack Obama routinely lies to fulfill the one promise he has not broken: to “fundamentally transform America.” But what he has done to empower Iran and pave its way to develop nuclear weapons trumps even that boastful claim: Obama wants to, and probably will, fundamentally transform the world.

When he campaigned in 2008 Barack Obama dismissed concerns over Iran: it is just a “tiny” country that doesn’t pose a threat to us the way the Soviet Union did during the Cold War. This was absurd. Singapore is tiny; Andorra is tiny; the Vatican is tiny; Iran is not tiny. There are at least 80 million Iranians and the nation itself sprawls over key geographic territory (being able to project its power over important oil-producing nations and shipping lanes; its warm weather ports have always been a tempting target for the Russians).

But then again, Obama is a geographically challenged president (there are not 57 states in America , Hawaii is not in Asia; they don’t speak Austrian in Austria; Illinois is closer to Kentucky (they share a border) than Arkansas (they do not share a border). Iran has also been consistently held to be the number one terror-sponsoring nation in the world, responsible through its proxies, such as Hezb’allah and Shiite militias in Iraq for the deaths and injuries of thousands of Americans. Given the economics of terrorism, violence against America can be done on the cheap, so a comparison between America’s military budget and Iran’s, something Obama is wont to do, is meaningless.

Obama’s political handlers quickly realized the gaffe about Iran in 2008 had to be erased from memory. Barack Obama shifted his tone: declaring he would do “everything in my power to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon. Everything. He periodically repeated this promise when he thought it could pay political benefits to him.

Well…words are cheap (like terrorism).

Once he became president, the deceitfulness of his promise became clearer -- especially in his second term when he reminded us he would never be on a ballot again and when he could go Bulworth and do whatever he wants as president .

Indeed, deceitfulness has become his standard operating procedure-especially when it comes to helping the mullahs of Iran-who hate America with more loathing than even Israel-get nuclear weapons.

Michael Doran recently wrote in his superb “Obama’s Secret Iran Strategy” that Barack Obama, from the inception of his presidency, pursued “détente” with Iran. All else, especially allies in the region, were sacrificed to this goal. Ben Rhodes, Obama’s foreign policy guru (quite a role for a failed short-story writer with zero diplomatic or national security experience) likened an Iranian nuclear deal to the passage of ObamaCare:

This is probably the biggest thing President Obama will do in his second term on foreign policy. This is healthcare for us, just to put it in context.

As Rick Richman wrote, Obama is using some of the tactics employed to pass ObamaCare to pass an Iran deal. Among those tactics is a resolute refusal to allow Congressmen (as well as the rest of America) to know any details of the deal. Shades of “have to pass the bill to know what is in it” -- this, from the administration that declared it would be the most transparent in history. The deal with the mullahs would be presented as a fait accompli.

But that tactic would be mild compared to the deceit that would follow.

Very early in his presidency, the White House had information that Iran had been operating a secret underground nuclear plant. The White House kept this secret for them for months until “Mr. Obama’s hand was forced” (as the New York Times reported) when the Iranians realized other western intelligence sources had this information and disclosed it themselves. The White House recently engaged in the same practice when it cast doubt on reports of yet another secret Iran nuclear facility.

To backtrack, there is a group of nations called the P5+1 (the five permanent members of the UN Security Council, plus Germany) that has been negotiating with Iran. The Joint Plan of Action (JPOA) was the first step taken. This was purportedly a way to freeze the Iranians’ nuclear work while negotiations continued on a more comprehensive deal.

Barack Obama and John Kerry have repeatedly declared that the JPOA has succeeded and the nuclear program has been frozen. This is deceitful.

One key provision of the JPOA was that any enriched uranium that Iran produced after the JPOA was signed had to be chemically converted to a less dangerous form. This was not done. Furthermore, while Obama claimed, “we have halted the progress of the nuclear program” he was wrong. Iran’s centrifuges were allowed to continue to spin as rapidly and repeatedly as Obama spun the “success” of his deal with Iran. He even repeated the claim in a State of the Union Address, during which he also claimed that “unprecedented inspections” under the JPOA had “helped the world verify every day that Iran is not building a bomb” and won some more Pinocchios to add to his burgeoning collection from Glenn Kessler, the fact-checker at the Washington Post.

This is just one example of how the White House seems to be working in tandem with the mullahs to suppress evidence of their cheating. This deceitfulness began early, buttressing Doran’s view that there was always a secret plan to appease Iran.

Barack Obama has repeatedly claimed that Iran has abided by all the terms of the JPOA (Obama: ”Iran has met all its obligations”). Just as repeatedly, the Iranians have violated the terms of the JPOA. As Michael Makovsky writes in the Weekly Standard (Iran’s Cheating: Can’t Trust, Can’t Verify):

In the past year alone Iran has violated its international agreements at least three times. First, even though the interim Joint Plan of Action (JPOA) prohibited Iran from enriching uranium in any centrifuges that were not in use at the time the deal went into effect in January 2014, last November the IAEA caught Iran operating a new centrifuge—worse still, it was an advanced IR-5 model. Second, the JPOA required Iran to process any low-enriched uranium it produced during the deal’s term from the gaseous form used for enrichment into a solid that can be used as reactor fuel, so that it would not be readily available for further enrichment and potential breakout. As of February 2015, Iran had an excess of some 300 kilograms of low-enriched uranium, in violation of the deal’s terms. Third, in parallel to the JPOA, the IAEA and Iran signed a Framework for Cooperation under which Iran agreed to answer outstanding IAEA concerns about the possible military dimensions of its nuclear program. Iran answered only one question to the IAEA’s satisfaction and, for the past six months, has been stonewalling on the rest. This recent record of cheating, while Iran was negotiating a comprehensive arrangement and thus incentivized to be good, bodes poorly for the future under a new accord.

The White House routinely dismisses evidence of Iranian cheating.

When Iran was caught testing an advanced centrifuge (a violation under the JPOA), the White House said it was just a “mistake” by some low-level employee, as if some Iranian scientist tripped and accidentally injected UF6 into an advanced IR-5 centrifuge, as a friend sarcastically wrote. The excuse beggars belief, especially since it was not Iran spinning but the American president.

Is the White House doing more than just serving as a defense lawyer for the mullahs?

Reuters recently reported that Iran has continued to actively procure equipment for its nuclear program but that member states seem to have halted reporting these violations to avoid “undermining the delicate nuclear talks.” Is this a deceitful way to aiding and abetting the Iranian regime by actively suppressing evidence that Iran has continued to develop its supposedly frozen nuclear program?

Isn’t suppressing information that casts aspersions on Iran a key part of the Obama doctrine? Tom Jocelyn speculates the White House refuses to release documents found in the Bin Laden raid because they would show Iranian ties to Al Qaeda. Iran and its proxy Hezb’allah were quietly removed from a list of terrorism threats this past February by Obama’s Director of National Intelligence. Iran’s role in the genocide occurring in Syria is never mentioned. Iran’s nefarious role South of the Border is complacently dismissed, and its violating of a wide range of other agreements is dismissed as a non-factor in any nuclear deal because a nuclear deal is distinct from other deals in being “aspirational” ((http://www.c-span.org/video/?325740-1/state-department-briefing-at the 5:20 mark) -- whatever that means. Does the White House believe any of this nonsense?

For years, the administration has been claiming the mullahs can be trusted because their Supreme Leader, Ali Khamenei, issued a fatwa forbidding the development of nuclear weapons. As Scott Johnson writes at PowerLine, the supposed fatwa is a hoax. Yigal Carmon of the well-regarded Middle East Research Institute has investigated and reports, “There is no such fatwa. It is a lie from the Iranians, a deception, and it is tragic that President Obama has endorsed it.”

It does not exist and, even if it did, it could be revoked on a moment’s notice. Experts have looked for the supposed fatwa and it is a myth. But Obama and Kerry continue to peddle it. Again, the Deceit Doctrine in action.

But that is not the only myth they are peddling.

The White House apparently is promoting an Iranian Disinformation Claim, Hassan Dai recently wrote in the Iranian American Forum:

Proponents of the nuclear deal with Iran, including those within the U. S. government, have repeatedly argued that pressing Iran’s dictatorial regime to give up its nuclear program completely is futile, because the enrichment of uranium is wildly popular with the Iranian people. Hassan Dai explains that the deal’s supporters have been snookered:

This claim [about the program’s popularity] is part of the Iranian regime’s disinformation campaign, which started in 2003 and includes a total ban on opposing the program, jailing the critics, holding state-organized rallies in support of the program, and fabricating public-opinion polls in Iran for a U.S. audience. The majority of these polls are conducted by a Tehran-based center tied to the Iranian security forces. These polls are publicized and promoted by pro-Tehran groups in Washington, many of them close allies of the Obama administration. . . .

The claim that the majority of the Iranian people support the regime’s nuclear program, or that this program—largely unknown to the vast majority of Iranian—has become an issue of national pride, as well as the ridiculous allegation that Iranians “prefer to forgo an agreement and muddle through under existing sanctions rather than accept the halt to enrichment,” are baseless.

White House officials know a thing or two about disinformation.

Ever since Hassan Rouhani was elected President of Iran, the administration has promoted the view that he was a moderate that could be trusted. Both are false claims. He is not a moderate and he has boasted of successfully lying and deceiving the West in the past about the Iranian nuclear program. More importantly, he is a figurehead, a front man, for the distinctly non-moderate Supreme Leader. Even this White House could not burnish Khamenei’s image, so they just ignore his role and deceive Americans into believing Rouhani rules Iran.

The disinformation does not stop there.

For example, for years they have reassured Americans that Iran was not even close to having enough enriched uranium for a nuclear bomb. However, Energy Secretary Moniz recently acknowledged that the White House has known for years that Iran was far closer to this point than officials, including the president, had been publicly stating.

Eli Lake writes in Bloomberg News:

When Obama began his second term in 2013, he sang a different tune. He emphasized that Iran was more than a year away from a nuclear bomb, without mentioning that his intelligence community believed it was only two to three months away from making enough fuel for one, long considered the most challenging task in building a weapon. Today Obama emphasizes that Iran is only two to three months away from acquiring enough fuel for a bomb, creating a sense of urgency for his Iran agreement.

Back in 2013, when Congress was weighing new sanctions on Iran and Obama was pushing for more diplomacy, his interest was in tamping down that sense of urgency. On the eve of a visit to Israel, Obama told Israel's Channel Two, "Right now, we think it would take over a year or so for Iran to actually develop a nuclear weapon, but obviously we don’t want to cut it too close."

What is obvious is that Obama and his team have been deceitful.

White House officials have not just been deceitful to Americans. They take pride in having been deceitful to one of America’s closest allies, Israel. White House officials somewhat notoriously promised the Israelis they would deliver a good nuclear Iran deal if only the Israelis held off on attacking Iranian nuclear infrastructure -- and then turned around and publicly boasted about having sandbagged Netanyahu, whom they labeled a chickens**t coward for believing them . That must mark a new low in American history: openly boasting of successfully deceiving one of our closest allies facing the prospect of another Holocaust.

Perhaps the most recent example of deceit was Obama declaring that a “historic” agreement has been reached with Iran over its nuclear program. Obama stated that the agreement would impose rigorous verification programs on the Iranian nuclear program (including searches on military bases), would permit only a phased removal of sanctions on Iran, and would contain snapback provisions that would automatically re-impose sanctions if the Iranians were found cheating (of course, the White House turns a blind eye to cheating anyway). The Iranians have, as has been widely reported, denied any of these provisions were part of the agreement, as have the Russians. In fact, there is no deal-as even John Kerry admitted this week. So Obama’s spiking of the football was not just premature but apparently a fabrication to derail Congressional actions on Iran. It was a faux “deal.” This is deceit.

So the Obama Doctrine has been uncovered and can be summarized in one word: deceive."

couchmaster

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 12, 2015 - 08:16am PT


Wow. No rebuttals? Discourse shut down for a month.

couchmaster

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 12, 2015 - 08:17am PT

Here's an interesting adjunct to this line of thought although some folks might find it strange that Jews would not want to be wiped off the planet, I don't at all.

"une 9, 2015
The Day I RAN from Left to Right
By Ruth Lewis

Any ‘right-minded’ person would consider me far-left of center. This is certain. In fact, of all my left-leaning friends I am perhaps the one that most defends the political establishment, is amongst the most active and outspoken and arguably, argumentative. I have supported left-leaning and liberal NGOs for a good portion of my adult life both financially, when possible, and with quiet leadership and pro-bono professional advisement.

I believe in supporting causes that cause movement for people to attain greater political freedoms, enhanced human dignity, security and protection of minority rights, credible access to economic equality, education, and housing.

As regards the Israel Palestine conflict I have always supported a two-state solution despite my extreme opposition to Islamic violence and sharia law. I have questioned the lack of elections in the Palestinian Authority for over 6 years now.

Yet, while my positions and the way in which I live my life are aligned with liberal principles recently I ran from their unwavering dogma as regards the breaking Israel news of the Western capitulation and acquiescence to Iran’s pursuit of nuclear energy, enriched uranium, and weaponized missile technology.

This threat is real and palpable.

Prime Minister Netanyahu, who has never been my candidate of choice for the role, has continued to speak out against the deal as not only a dangerous threat to Israel, but to the world. On security, I trust the man. He has access to information I cannot begin to imagine. One thing we have learned in the most egregious and gruesome of ways: when someone says they want to kill the Jews -- believe him or her. They mean it.

I have not abandoned my liberal outlooks and perspectives, my support for causes and organizations, my hope that people and governments can be more tolerant -- even appreciative -- of each other. But as I ran the other day--from left to right--a gruesome nightmare appeared before my eyes -- the rainbow streaks and lines before my eyes became blurred, my breath short and labored, my brow perspired, my legs slow and tired, my mind awake, aware, and very, very scared.

In years past I have supported Greenpeace and The Sierra Club, gay rights (I am heterosexual) and supported local agriculture efforts worldwide. I have been vegetarian for more than 12 years to stem animal cruelty and industrial farming practices. I supported the efforts worldwide against the arms race and for cures for cancer and AIDS while a senior in high school. I believe anyone should be able to marry and anyone should be able share their sexual persuasion openly and worship the God or deity of their choice.

But Iran encourages murder. Genocide, actually.

Iran openly and excitedly calls the destruction of the Jewish people as “non-negotiable”. Ayatollahs--grand leaders of Iran’s despotic theocracy -- opine that it is not only their intention to commit genocide but their right and obligation; for all Iranians. How is this tolerated?

Could any Israeli politician echo such statements about any Arab or Muslim state?

See, I learned about the Holocaust when I was younger. From a very tender, young age. Not just in school but from my grandparents. Of four grandparents, three were survivors. All of them spoke about their experiences. One got out of Europe prior and returned to fight them on the battlefields of Europe and North Africa. My mind, young and adult could never fathom such: the painstaking effort, the hate, the resources, the horror, the not fighting back. All of it.

And, yet in one tiny atomic reaction multiplied exponentially it can all happen again.

The same people steadfast against nuclear proliferation who stood side by side with me in high school now have no problem aiding and abetting and capitulating to Iran. We all thought with North Korea this would work. Can we say: epic fail?

And I also have my own fault lines. So I ran. I know what is next: after a “deal” with Iran the political push will begin to require Israel to allow IAEA inspectors.

If Iran is “complying,” Israel must.

On these points my leftist-liberal family members (beside two!), friends, circles, professional organizations and alliances, and essentially every single person I know is: silent.

The silence we said would “Never Again” occur.

The silence we said was appalling: “How could they?!”

The silence we said was: “Institutionalized. Political. Anti-Semitic. Economic. Strategic!”

And I will not be silent. So I ran from left to right; on this matter.

I have traded a barrage of calls and emails with my two right-of-center family members.

I have run to speak with and connect with organizations who will not capitulate to this horror.

Because when I said “Never Again!” all these years: I meant it.

I cannot sit idly by while my leftist-liberal cohorts and friends passively and flaccidly acquiesce to an agenda that threatens my existence, to a reality that could make the ovens of Auschwitz and Birkenau look like tinder for a Sunday BBQ.

The only question now is whether the the Israel Defense Forces will initiate what could become an Israel-Iran War: larger, wider, more dangerous and deadly conflict than Israel and the world has seen in half a century. A much larger world involvement due to “alliances and interests” fills me with fear: for the safety of Jews in Israel, the safety of Jews worldwide.

I stand by my support for liberal causes, my liberal views, my liberal outlook on life in my personal “daled amos”, in business, in politics, in the United States, in Israel.

I will not and cannot stand with the liberal establishment in their promotion of a vile, vicious, suicidal enemy seeking my annihilation.

It’s like combining the Japanese Kamikazes with Hitler’s Jewish Obsession with Kim Jong Un’s nuclear arsenal.

It doesn’t make sense.

But my sprint does.

The day I ran I recall feeling a consciousness of intent and purpose I have not felt in ages.

Today, as we mourn and remember Yom HaShoah, Holocaust Memorial Day, as we continue the rampant repetition of that famous slogan I will be a voice from that void,

“Never Again” also means:

“Not Now!”

"

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/06/the_day_i_ran_from_left_to_right.html
couchmaster

climber
Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2016 - 07:04am PT

Todays news: White house admits the manipulation of left leaning journalists and telling lies about Iran. So Netanyahu was telling the truth, and our President and white house folks were lieing about the Iran deal to get it passed through congress. Hope and change baby.


http://nypost.com/2016/05/05/playing-the-press-and-the-public-for-chumps-to-sell-the-iran-deal/
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
May 7, 2016 - 07:21am PT
WBraun

climber
May 7, 2016 - 07:22am PT
Netanyahu was telling the truth

He's the biggest criminal terrorist on the planet bar none!

And these morons believe all the lies that come out of this aszholes mouth.

Obama has been fighting this aszhole off for years.

60% of the Israel citizens don't like him either.

If you people really knew what this aszhole Netanyahu has been doing all over the planet all these years you would immediately want to take him out.

But he's protected by his criminal people in the US media, Congress, Senate, and Pentagon ......
WBraun

climber
May 7, 2016 - 08:00am PT
And meanwhile you stupid Americans keep supporting this huge criminal terrorist to the tune of Billions of US taxpayer dollars every year.

You people are insane .....
ecdh

climber
the east
May 7, 2016 - 04:34pm PT
ive worked in and with Iran for 17 years, across various projects, 3 presidents and from before the hubbub of what became the current standpoint towards islam (and all that comes with it).
i was there when 9/11 happened and have been to all its borders, and live in a country with a very odd stance on the place. i go there to climb and work.

anyway,

Irans is easily the most misunderstood significant player on the world stage. we have a better angle of N korea.
iran and 'eye-ran' are not the same places.

but we all know that.

what almost always escapes attention is the US's real relation with iran - its actually surprisingly good. whilst the media gets all flustered and the banks acts as terror groups, remarkable things go on - both good and maybe-less-so - that are either denied coverage or distorted in reporting.

watch and see.
WBraun

climber
May 7, 2016 - 05:18pm PT
100% correct ^^^^^
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
May 8, 2016 - 04:48am PT
Thank you for your insight on Iran.

People forget that we were complicit in the butchery of many of their people by the Shaw.

The Iran Deal was a double, 3 Stooges slap across Bibi's and King Saman's face by our Prez...good.
Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
May 8, 2016 - 06:32am PT
Guys, let's be real.
Iran is building a nuclear bomb, because nuclear weapons is the only insurance policy against US agression (a.k.a "peacekeeping operation" or "bringing a democracy").
Any contry that wants to preserve their freedom must have one.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 8, 2016 - 06:47am PT
If the U.S. is being aggressive toward Iran, we sure have a strange way of expressing it.

We gave them Iraq - after killing their Public Enemy #1 - as well as the rest of the Middle East. Then we paid them $100,000,000,000 for their troubles.

I don't know how much more of this American aggression Iran will be able to take.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 07:46am PT
Then we paid them $100,000,000,000 for their troubles.
Complete BS
please provide a VALID link

we released their $100 billion, we didn't give them a cent in the Iran deal.

No wonder you guys hate the deal so much, because the right wing media liars filled your head with hateful lies.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
May 8, 2016 - 08:05am PT
Let's bring a democracy down on their asses
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 8, 2016 - 08:24am PT
It's not much of a democracy when the people elected don't run the government, and those who run the government aren't elected.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 08:28am PT
The Iran deal only dealt with their ability to manufacture Nukes

So to say the deal was bogus because they are doing other things outside of manufacturing Nukes that you don't like is just plain stupid.

And saying the deal gives them the nuke is even stupider, it just shows that you are a complete idiotic Dupe
How are they going to get a nuke without the raw materials and without violating the Treaty.


The same people that sold us on Iraq having WMD are now lying about the Iran deal.

They are chicken hawks that make money on war.
couchmaster

climber
Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2016 - 08:43am PT


ecdh said:
"ive worked in and with Iran for 17 years, across various projects, 3 presidents and from before the hubbub of what became the current standpoint towards islam (and all that comes with it).
i was there when 9/11 happened and have been to all its borders, and live in a country with a very odd stance on the place. i go there to climb and work. anyway, Irans is easily the most misunderstood significant player on the world stage. we have a better angle of N korea.
iran and 'eye-ran' are not the same places. but we all know that. what almost always escapes attention is the US's real relation with iran - its actually surprisingly good. whilst the media gets all flustered and the banks acts as terror groups, remarkable things go on - both good and maybe-less-so - that are either denied coverage or distorted in reporting.

watch and see. "

Interesting post. You clearly must know a hell of a lot more than the rest of us combined. Care to elaborate?
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
May 8, 2016 - 10:19am PT
It's not complex to understand if you don't view the world through, ancient fear based religions.

Do a little research into the kibbutz movement at the end of the Ottoman empire, the post WW-2 formation of the Jewish state, the emergence of a petroleum based world economy, aggressive Zionists Settlement policies in the wake of the 6 day war, the ingrained hatred of Jews by many Muslims, the need of a regional Pitt bull by the US, the unholy alliance between capitalist-neoconservatives and hardliner Zionists, and finally the grab-hold-stall- repopulate, apartheid strategy by a so called, "Democratic" country.

I applaud the efforts to lay a foundation of understanding with an emerging, young, educated, population in Iran. The Revolutionary Guard is growing old.

perswig

climber
May 8, 2016 - 11:20am PT
The Revolutionary Guard is growing old.

As is our own. Leading near-time to more extreme measures to preserve status quo in both places.
The parallels are a bit unsettling.

Dale
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 02:49pm PT
Dr. F was correct

The $100 billion of frozen assets were released back to Iran
not a cent of it was ours.

I wonder why Chaz didn't bother responding?

Let's ask another question
Chaz, how much did we pay Iran for their troubles?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 8, 2016 - 03:15pm PT
Dr F is playing with semantics, as usual.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 03:34pm PT
good grief

calling it semantics is a way of getting out of saying that they were WRONG
Tom Patterson

Trad climber
Seattle
May 8, 2016 - 03:37pm PT
Just a couple of thoughts:

1. The U.S.--the only country in history to use nukes against another nation--is in a rather ironic place to be the moral watchdog for any other nation re: nukes, and;

2. The U.S.'s history in and with Iran hardly lends itself to making any moral statements about their actions, or alleged actions.

Now...I have to get back to being a brand new grandparent, and hope that the world we leave our descendants is a better one than we've so royally screwed up.
WBraun

climber
May 8, 2016 - 04:05pm PT
The U.S.--the only country in history to use nukes against another nation

Not true.

Tactical nukes are being used by Israel .....
couchmaster

climber
Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2016 - 06:05pm PT
Werner, you sh#t on Israel all too often for my taste. Let see some reality based facts supported by actual evidence. Put up some links for examination and general humiliation;-) that support your crazy claims or admit you are wrong.


"The U.S.--the only country in history to use nukes against another nation. Not true. Tactical nukes are being used by Israel ..... "



As an aside, I knew a guy who claimed to have first hand knowledge that we (the US) had deployed backpack sized nukes in Vietnam . Not that we fired them off, but that they were there and inplaced. He gave me pretty detailed info about it.

Per Werner:
"Tactical nukes are being used by Israel ..... "
Tom Patterson

Trad climber
Seattle
May 8, 2016 - 06:07pm PT
"Tactical nukes are being used by Israel ....."

Werner, I'm not a fan of a lot of what Israel's been doing, but where do you get this statement?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 07:13pm PT
I wanted to say something like

but then remembered that the thread just got plastered with more seagull sh#t
ecdh

climber
the east
May 8, 2016 - 07:40pm PT
care to elaborate?

gladly - but be warned: this is my personal can of worms and you may be sorry you asked.

caveat; its what i think after a career dealing with the place AND living in other places that get a different view on the matter (namely china, japan, central asia).

nukes: of course iran has them on the table. look at the neighbours! with most other avenues of self-defense squeezed off a sabre to rattle is all they got. you think you worry about the taliban/wahabists/saddam/russia/pakistan etc - trying having all of them next door then almost all other forms of countering them limited (ie diplomatic, economic, strategic platforms).
remember - iran has no safety net. unlike israel, n korea, saudi etc they dont have a big brother to run to if this go bad.

dont forget too - iran has a significant hi tech industry that includes nuclear medicine. they also acknowledge their position with reliance on hydrocarbons and that if targeted the striking party will nail their oil first. also, oil is the primary political/religious fulcrum in iran (privatizing it etc) so having another option makes sense.
they have reasons for nuclear industry besides secret bombs.

still. its better they dont go down that road, tho the process has been rigged from both sides.

democracy: regionally they have about the best system going. even turkey has a 'democracy' thats barely functional any more.
i worked directly with this process a bit and the secular element is proper democracy - better than the systems most western nations claim.

the ayatollah stuff is a problem, but note they are still elected from a fairly large base and have to use protocols too. its not a true theocracy.
note too the power in the ayatollah is diminishing fast. theyre only onto their second one and already the position is a pale shadow. the probable next ayatollah looks pretty cool and expect a big defreeze.

not that in the entire region from the pacific to the Mediterranean its one of the few places NOT to pass on leadership thru nepotism. even the ayatollah is subject to strict process.

the great satan: the US hates iran more than iran hates the US. inside the country theres very little anti-US propaganda. most iranians aspire to a middle class lifestyle very similar. they too love cars, gasoline, getting fat and cheesy sit-coms.
what animosity exists is usually centered around they way US popular policy messes with irans interests and security. on one hand the US competes, on the other it plays for the other team altogether.

the big seceret (and you heard it here folks) is at the highest level iran and the US maintain a functional friendship. looking back, both sides have usually worked together when it mattered (with exceptions). indeed the US has better relations with iran than many other places it decalres its 'friends'.

from the iran/iraq war thru the fall of the USSR the japanese bubble the taliban, saudi prominence, the tajik civil war, al qaeda, pakistan, the opening of central asia and now syria - theres a long history of parallel agendas.

where things come unhinged is the peripheral militia stuff like hezbollah, competition over china, azerbaijan, oman etc and strategic factors like the caspian and straights of hormuz.

sanctions/cash etc: for a place with a trashed economy after 30 years sanctions they do ok as they connect well to other places (china, till recently japan, central asia etc). with a strong middle class and emphasis on education they stay afloat where others dont.
the released cash goes both ways - most of its theirs and they know whay it was frozen - BUT a lot of its also from dubious avenues that dont make the worlds securtiy systems look healthy.
note sanctions never were like the ones on already crippled nations like N korea, iraq etc - iran always would keep rolling forward and places like china didnt abide much by them anyway (another problem for later).

with the cash flowing again iran will restart very fast and change the map. the big blank between china and europe will fill fast and the US popular population sitting it out is a big mistake - get in there.

terrorism: murky. if you start by removing forms of terrorism that the US also indulges in (supporting nasty proxy groups etc) theres not much iran really is engaged in OTHER THAN their own war to stop it.
note that almost everyone the US ends up fighting iran fights a decade before, then gets dumped with it again once the US is done.

on the ground, iran is about as terror-free as it gets. incidents within the country are very rare - tho they are pretty heavy about dealing with anything that even looks in that direction.

israel: iran is offically anti-zionist, not anti-jewish. they actually have good relations with judaism when its divorced from a zionist agenda.

other shit: iran is not paradise but they do ok considering whats on their plate. culturally they are very tolerant and even with some heavy islamic bullshit they find honorable ways around it usually (but not always). a good example is homosexuality - they see gay as being distinct for men f*#king other men. guys can have sex with other guys if they just dont call it gay, ie have a 'regular' lifestyle along with it.

in some ways they are ahead of the game. their human rights are not great - but then they also have the worlds largest refugee population and almost zero international assistance for it. same for the drug trafficking problem.
education is pretty good, womens rights are varied between limited by religion to complete freedom - its not pakistan or saudi with blanketly stupid laws.

what else..?

the foods great, the waters drinkable, its cheap, the climbings awesome and theres little crime.

in fact, some well known iranian climbers and i are pulling together a 'freedom climbers' ice/alpine/wall trip there in early 2017 if anyone wants to join and get off the sofa on the matter.
we can spray about all this or actually go and be part of the change.

edit the sanctions bit.
WBraun

climber
May 8, 2016 - 07:57pm PT
The tactical nuke news has been around for years and even mainstream media reported it although those reports got scrubbed fast to keep you loons in the dark.

You Americans are all the same .... brainwashed into stupid!

Except guys like above (ecdh) .....
ecdh

climber
the east
May 8, 2016 - 09:14pm PT
no perspective can offer objectivity - thats 101 of working in any international capacity. best can be done is to have a variety of perspectives from across a spectrum of interests, then collate them as quantitatively as possible (ie matching up stats and data with observation). that is how the positions are filled.

like all things; a days experience is worth more than a lifetimes assumptions.

tho i like iran, i dont claim to be an expert (its a massive field of study). but i do know its not black and white. ive also seen the manipulated media portrayal and even at my basic level its clear what the disparity is.

an open climbers forum isnt the place to get into serious data, but there are multiple platforms for the 'bonafides' you seek if you want them. or let me know what you want to hear.

or better yet - go there.
ecdh

climber
the east
May 8, 2016 - 09:50pm PT
several inter govt groups and research taskings.

observation and analysis of various things ranging from displaced people to political observation and border area stuff. mostly in the NW but time in other areas too.

this is a discussion id rather have privately, so pm me if you like.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
May 9, 2016 - 07:10am PT
Sounds like a spook
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 9, 2016 - 07:41am PT
ecdh
tell us about the tactical nukes that Israel is using
Werner says you're the only one that knows about them besides him

I really want more info, this sounds very serious indeed.
WBraun

climber
May 9, 2016 - 07:50am PT
I never said such bullsh!t you make up Craig.

I said he's not as brainwashed as YOU fools here .....
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 9, 2016 - 07:56am PT
Really?
I agree 100% with ecdh
so why am I considered brainwashed

It's the right wing media that spews all the lies about Iran
The left has been trying to tell the same story as ecdh

Majid_S

Mountain climber
Karkoekstan
May 9, 2016 - 08:49am PT
I wonder why people think Iran is planning to make nuke when they already got a few Russian made.

Also, BIBI owes iran 20 Billion $ since 1978 and technically, since Iran is BIBI'S # 1 enemy they can't wire money to their enemy

Tom Patterson

Trad climber
Seattle
May 9, 2016 - 09:09am PT
ecdh - thanks for your thoughtful and informed contributions.
couchmaster

climber
Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2016 - 10:42am PT
I did some looky-looky around Werner, and it seems to me that you just all too easily take things at face value. 1st, I tend towards being a non-interventionist kind of guy. I usually want the US to stay the heck out of 90 percent of the crap we get into. Some of it's real nasty and unnecessary that kicks back on our countrys reputation in a bad way. The other 10 percent or so of the time our intervention is justified.

So found this if this is what you are describing: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/05/29/how-israel-was-busted-nuking-yemen/


You believe and accept that is a nuke? Why didn't the emp immediately kill the digital camera? Looks like a bunker full of fuel was hit. A neutron bomb should be an air burst. That's a ground burst - conventional. Somebody makes some crap up and everyone else copy/pastes it as fact. It looks like nothing we are familiar with. I know some folks with the Doctors without borders. They are honorable and honest to a fault. Doctors without borders have been in Yemen all this time (recently had a hospital bombed) and not a peep out of one of them. No radiation burns or effects have been reported. If that was a neutron bomb, the enhanced radiation produced would have resulted in many horrific and obvious injuries. Where is that person to person evidence? Please show me one instance of such a report.




*UPDATED*

As I typed this I've had a mind change. In retrospect, I could be totally wrong on this and there may be a lot of stuff going on. I was going to proceed to "let alone how can you draw a line to Israel" given that Saudi Arabia is militarily controlling the sky's with US help, but have reconsidered my point of view. In fact, there have been 3 instances of Doctors without borders having been mysteriously bombed in Yemen. That's a very strange thing as the group both gives their co-ordinates to anyone with warplanes a long time in advance, work directly with the militaries so they all know, AND CLEARLY MARK THEIR FACILITIES (RED CROSSES ON THE ROOFS ETC ETC) so as to avoid an accident. So given that they were intentionally bombed, multiple times and many medical folks killed, I'm led to the question: why would that be? Scary as the easy answer is to get rid of witnesses who can and will communicate this kind of craziness to the world. Yet I would still expect reports of radiation sickness. Where are those?

Link to what I'm talking about: http://www.salon.com/2016/01/11/bloodshed_in_yemen_continues_3rd_doctors_without_borders_hospital_bombed_in_saudi_led_u_s_backed_war/

A story of the US doing an identical thing in Afghanistan. Lots of unanswered questions remain, and it appears that the US is now saying it was intentional. http://www.salon.com/2015/10/05/we_have_committed_a_war_crime_patients_were_burning_in_their_beds/
ecdh

climber
the east
May 9, 2016 - 03:30pm PT
craig fry: i dont know anything about about whatever nukes israel is into.

the russia matter majid raises is interesting. the two places have very odd relations, and i dont think iran would get that in bed with russia - not when they are more in bed with china these days and not when their future looks towards western cooperation probably.

personally i wouldnt tag any of this 'left'. the efforts and gravity guys like kerry bring to it are strategic, not humanitarian. they see the changed chess board and are playing for the high value pieces, and unlike the rest of the region (exception maybe/maybe not turkey) they are not dealing with a tin pot dynastic desert outpost-come-oil city state that will just define itself by its exports.

this makes the level of diplomacy several notches higher and the outcome somewhat greater. iran is a very different entity to saudi, pakistan, iraq, syria, oman, the emirates, central asian reps etc and western foreign policy needs to step up a bit to take it on.

id argue that the left has tried to saintize the iran issue. iran still has a LOT of elements that are not acceptable in this era, plus a past that needs answering to. some of the institutions need oversight definitely.
they will not come on line as rich but quiet little-brother-state like azerbaijan, dubai etc. they have long been the counter weight in a massive region and thats not going to change. they know they have leverage, and a bit like china - with a long history they know how to wait sh#t out.

note too, it wont be like china opening up. iran is already a fully functioning nation with stable borders, good infrastructure, functioning industries and institutions etc. it will rapidly take a place currently occupied by some countries that have taken decades to get there.

anyway im drinking too much coffee and raving - i warned you all about this.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 9, 2016 - 03:56pm PT
ecdh
all you had to say about the tactical nukes that Israel is using is "That's crazy talk"

ecdh

climber
the east
May 9, 2016 - 04:08pm PT
Craig: honestly i have no idea so cant form an opinion. Sure it may be crazy talk, or not. But i aint the guy to say.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 9, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
i dont think iran would get that in bed with russia

They would love to hop into the sack with Russia if it would benefit them.
Trade a little oil for weaponry and nuclear whatever? In a heartbeat!
These guys are the original rug salesmen and they will do a deal just for
the love of doing the deal, unless it costs them. Right now their 'best'
friends are China, India, and Turkey; they're the ones that benefited the
most from the sanctions being lifted.
WBraun

climber
May 9, 2016 - 05:11pm PT
No way Jose

The Putinator is a good guy.

Even Obama likes him.

The Trumpinator likes him.

The terrorist McCain don't like him.

Bibi the sh!t head don't like him.

The aszhole Turkey's Erdogan hates him.

Ho mannnn the stoopid topo brainwashed fools don't like him.

Tactical nukes don't like him ......
ecdh

climber
the east
May 9, 2016 - 05:41pm PT
Mmmm naaah

Despite the stereotypes it would entail a political and strategic process so twisted, with so much risk and so little reason its very difficult to see. That they never did as a full renegade state makes it very unlikely for the future.

Conven weapons, maybe, but for both sides a joint nuclear love in - nope.

Its not the 60s. The field isnt as clunky and black and white. The forms of bold foreign policy face iffs if that era dont apply any more. Iran didnt back off its nuke ideas because it wanted to be cuddly, it did so because there are better ways now to solve security issues and to make cash.
WBraun

climber
May 9, 2016 - 05:56pm PT
Iran didn't back off its nuke ideas because it wanted to be cuddly,
it did so because there are better ways now to solve security issues and to make cash.


Yes ... just see good intelligence.

Instead the western loons keep making fear mongering and aggression against the rest of the world to rape its resources in the guise of war.

Stoopid western idiots and their stoopid nukes and war.

Just see the stoopid loon westerners at work making hell on earth ......
ecdh

climber
the east
May 9, 2016 - 06:29pm PT
Whilst i admire your fervour Werner, i think the westerners in the iran game are doing ok - but yes its very out of character.
Kerry has done a good job i think, in part because he fortfied his position with japan, who have always been a key player in iran and give some balance eastward of iran ie burma and china where other aspects of the iran deal are being felt.

agreed the neo con idiots are missing the ball, but theres some good people quietly on the job.

For now...
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 9, 2016 - 06:34pm PT
Israel is not using tactical nukes. Another goofy conspiracy theory.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 9, 2016 - 07:54pm PT
Hey mann, it's on youtube

[Click to View YouTube Video]

and elsewhere

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/09/04/vt-nuclear-education-the-uranium-hydride-bomb/
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 9, 2016 - 07:59pm PT
Israel is not using tactical nukes

Cause they don't need to when they can kick yer ass three ways to Sunday
with conventionals. Besides, this is all a big poker game and nobody is
gonna call until everybody is all in.

zBrown, nice 1000 lb bomb blast.

zBrown

Ice climber
May 9, 2016 - 08:13pm PT
Welcome to the age of 5th gen hybrid nuclear weapons, a more deadly and dangerous age than the Cold War.

I'll read through it later.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/09/04/vt-nuclear-education-the-uranium-hydride-bomb/


This is a list of some of the most common misconceptions about nuclear weapons use:

“There was no significant fallout in the vicinity of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. All radiation injuries were a result of immediate (first 1 minute) radiation.” True.
“The only cases of significant fallout exposure as of 1964 to individuals, was in the Marshall Islands after a U.S. test. The short term effects were skin ‘burns’. As of 1964, no long term effects were known, although a slight excess cancer rate would be expected based on modern knowledge.” True.
“Almost all radioactivity in fallout – even in a ground burst – comes from the fission products themselves or transmutation of parts of the weapon. Thus air bursts and ground bursts produce approximately the same amount of radioactive products. However, ground bursts cause much more of the radioactive debris to be deposited within a fallout pattern, rather than distributed (and accordingly diluted and decayed) across the entire planet.” True.
“The blast effect is primarily determined by the “overpressure” – given in English units in PSI. A human being can withstand up to about 35PSI of peak overpressure from a nuclear blast (1% fatality rate). Your distance may vary. Thus a human will almost always survive the blast overpressure at approximately the following distances (slant range) from a blast according to the following table”: when we extrapolate these statistics, we see that the news reports from other blasts are consistent with these scientific data. True.


Where have we seen this effect used before?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 07:42am PT
Tactical nuclear weapon


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

U.S. officials view a W54 nuclear warhead (with a 10 or 20 ton explosive yield) as used on the Davy Crockett recoilless gun. The unusually small size of this tactical nuclear weapon is visible.
A tactical nuclear weapon (or TNW) also known as non-strategic nuclear weapon[1] refers to a nuclear weapon which is designed to be used on a battlefield in military situations, mostly with friendly forces in proximity and perhaps even on contested friendly territory. This is opposed to strategic nuclear weapons which are designed to be mostly targeted in the enemy interior away from the war front against nuclear forces, cities, factories, and other hardened or larger-area targets to damage the enemy's ability to wage war. Tactical nuclear weapons were a large part of the peak nuclear weapons stockpile levels during the Cold War.



Was a tactical nuclear weapon, or neutron bomb, detonated in Yemen ...

https://www.quora.com/Was-a-tactical-nuclear-weapon-or-neutron-bomb-deton...

That's not a nuclear explosion. It's just a big conventional explosion, likely due to a conventional weapons depot being hit by a conventional missile. Big e...
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