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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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The very idea of racial "purity"- regardless of what race is supposed to be superior, is idiotic to anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of population genetics. In that field, there is an expression called "hybrid vigor" which refers to the improved rate of survival of individuals with mixed parentage, because they are less likely to get the same messed up gene from both sides.
On the other hand, there is a notion of extensive inbreeding leading to a condition of "purity" where all the bad recessive genes are flushed out of the pool because all the offspring get the same thing from both sides and these ones die off- so the survivors are very inbred but without the negative recessive traits.
So does this mean "racially pure" is a new code-phrase for "inbred"?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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When I was running track and field fifty years ago the mantra was that blacks were great at sprinting but couldn't run distance races. Then along came Kenyan and Ethiopian runners from the high lands of Eastern Africa and within a few years many top European distance runners were taking early retirement. At the present time 96 of the top 100 marathon times of all time have been turned in by runners from those countries.
Athletic performance is more a function of culture and socio economic factors than anything else. KIds who run to school everyday from their homes at 7000 ft. are going to produce good
distance runners and latinos from the barrios of Central America are going to punch their way to economic well being. Irish and then Italian boxers were very prominent during the periods when those groups were new immigrants. Now the sport is dominated by latinos and blacks.
You don't see many minorities prominent in "country club" sports like golf, yatching, swimming and gymnastics for reason obvious to anyone with half a brain.
Climbing was for years in England and the US dominated by the upper classes. Only in the last half century starting with Whillans and Brown have caucasions from the lower socio economic classes made their mark. Climbing is still a sport largely of the white middle and upper classes. Should latinos and blacks get involved in any numbers their performances would be right up there with those of white climbers.
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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I was up in Yosemite with an older black couple from Sacramento, who are very close friends of mine. They said that at least for their generation, blacks were not so much into camping and the wilderness experience, which is why, back in the 60's and 70's at least, it was quite rare to see a black climber, backpacker, or alpinist.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Update:
Interestingly Rock & Ice and the American Alpine Club both posted pictures of black climbers on social media within 24 hours of this thread.
I would like to see more pictures bears climbing and/or myself and/or inverted offwidths. Let's see if this works again.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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donini hits the nail on the head!
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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He's the master race alright. You can tell by lookin' at 'im!!
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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I'll be glad the day someone can teach all the smart people how to learn not to be iddiitts...
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Please nuke this thread.
It sounds like an ad.
"Larry Bird Fans against Obama" .
It was a fine post as a current affair but not a good zombie. Put a stake through its heart.
I'm wrong. It's the title that pushed my button. The OP is worthy for many reasons. No complaints there. Request retracted. F*#k San Diego. Viva la Raza you plasticeen bitches. Buahahahaha. Somebody should educar that idiota about the future of crackerdom in the west. Assimilate or die pendejos.
Ands Jims post is a gem. Perfectly put.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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The WASPs have been upset ever since the Roman Catholic hordes (i.e. the Irish and the Italians) began colonizing the US during the middle of the 19th century, bringing in their wake crime and gangs. But there's just no going back to 1913 segregated Jim Crow America. J. Edgar Hoover and Joe McCarthy tried their best and still failed. So did the Klan. It's just never going back to White Bread protestant Christian middle America, never again (if it ever was).
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Jones in LA
Mountain climber
Tarzana, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2015 - 02:35pm PT
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@flipflop -- I struggled while trying to come up with a title for this thread, wanting to generate enough interest for folks to at least want to read it but not wanting it to sound like anyone is endorsing what twits like MacDonald and Johnson are trying to peddle. Bottom line is, my buttons got pushed when I saw that MacDonald, whom I'd been monitoring for years, attempted to draw a beautiful achievement like the Dawn Wall climb into his twisted world. I did hope to accomplish two things here: 1) make people aware that neo-Nazis are not always guys with shaved heads and scary tattoos -- William Johnson (the guy who wants to deport all non-whites from the US) was nearly elected to a local judgeship before being outed just days from the election by an LA Times columnist; and, 2) express my own observation that feature articles and advertisements in popular climbing magazines may not reach far enough into the diverse makeup of the climbing community. I will probably not post something like this again in a climbing forum. I'd much rather go climbing, read about climbing, and talk about climbing with people who have similar interests.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Hey thanks for your thread.
IMHO, I think that really our desire to refute it by proving that diversity does exist is well intentioned but slightly misguided. I think what we really want is for that diversity to actually exist in our sport and in wilderness appreciation more than it does, and that that would save us from having to acknowledge the reasons why that diversity doesn't exist, and how that traces back to racial injustices. For most of us, we're not comfortable just saying why do we need to show that diversity exists in (fill in the blank)?, can't we just acknowledge and accept that median white income is 13 times median black income, and that's why so many of the black guys are poor? And whether the guy who stole cigars gets killed because he's a thug or whether it's because of the white privilege of the society who the DOJ reports continues to racially target him, it's hard to say, but I trust that we'll form a belief that suits us.
So it gets expressed in different ways, the idiot you referenced being one of the extremes. If you're interested in a different take check out Black Faces, White Spaces, and maybe Post-traumatic slave disorder.
I think that humans are actually really smart, just not in the rational information processing -> belief creation way that we think we are.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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One of our forum's luminaries of integrity and humility and righteousness, a white parent of a black child, said about our first black president, arguably the highest status African American ever, "Obama is a little girl who soiled his panties."
In our society where even the black children of black parents learn to favor lighter skin, that's what we call color blind.
But we're no Hitlers.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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It's true, whites are superior athletes. Just look at the biggest sports, like rock climbing, curling and golf. Non-whites only excel in Podunk organizations and sports like the NFL, NBA, boxing, soccer...
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Should latinos and blacks get involved in any numbers their performances would be right up there with those of white climbers.
But they aren't involved. Not anywhere near their share of the general population.
Why are most "extreme" athletes white males? Especially the top competitors? It's not about physical ability. African Americans over-represent in the football, basketball, track & field and baseball... from high school to the pros. But among climbers, surfers, snowboarders, skateboarders, motocross etc., its almost all white guys. Why is that?
It'd be refreshing to see an honest discussion of this subject, where all possibilities are examined.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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EdwardTroll You must have missed or misunderstood Donini's excellent post a ways back.
and Reiterating my own thoughts
It's easy to be adventurous (extreme lol hack cough bwah) when you belong to the richest culture in the world. Other cultures within this nation don't have the centuries of wealth required to develop within them respect let alone traditions for wasting money and time.
This will change and already there are some examples, but it takes time for most cultures to appreciate being stupid for nothing except personal satisfaction.
Extreme? Seriously? Still annoys me that the term got dumbed down and used on things that usually don't kill you when you mess up.
So far I know of 4 extreme sports, ski mountaineering in specific situations (where the term originated in Europe)Free solo rock climbing, base jumping/proximity flying, and record level freediving. Oh and a 5th, Reno Air races.
As far as male thing goes...I don't yet know of a culture that has built an appreciation of women being stupid for nothing except personal satisfaction.
We climbers are getting there though. Steph Davis is badass
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