Moonlight Buttress no longer an Aid Climb?

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Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Jan 31, 2015 - 12:55pm PT
Caughtinside,thats kinda the funny thing, We were way faster than the free climbers. I think many of the so called free ascents take hours to work the crux pitches. Many can fire the pitches in good style but the Germans we were stuck behind were taking multiple falls while working the climb. If you can free it then free it, if you can't then aid it. It's a great climb either way.
Da-Veed

Big Wall climber
Bigfork
Jan 31, 2015 - 01:54pm PT
I soloed aided it about 10 years ago, before there were a lot of free climbers on it. Then I did it again with a lady friend about two years ago and was really surprised by the amount of chalk and tick marks over ever inch of the route. Yes, chalk is not harmful to the rock like cams and nuts but it certainly took away from the aesthetic feel of it. Every ascent leave an impact, except maybe a no chalk no rubber free solo.

I, of course, agree with Mark. Respect the route and have your own adventure, just don't hook it!

It is such a great route and beautiful location it is a shame that some climbers claim it as there own and look down upon clean aid ascents.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jan 31, 2015 - 02:12pm PT
Wasn't that thing soloed in like 80 minutes?

Soft sand stone combined with the fact that splitter cracks are the realm of free climbers tells me this should be done free. Why would you need to practice crack jugging? Get the new supertopo there are dozens of great routes there that aren't popular free routes, but your friends on Instagram may not know what they are... Why climb glorious finger cracks only to stuff cams in them instead?

I'm not a 5.12 climber but I would like to be and I would like to think that is attainable (it is) with a few hangs some day. Of course anyone can aid it, there are no rules, but why? To practice for yet another crowded wall? No offense but we don't spend 3 days nailing astroman, climbing moves forward. Feel free to aid moonlight and top rope the first pitch of the nut cracker and set up a tent under stem gem. You are allowed to. If that's why you climb...
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jan 31, 2015 - 02:20pm PT
"It is such a great route and beautiful location it is a shame that some climbers claim it as there own and look down upon clean aid ascents."

I don't think all Aid ascents are equal... An older party who likely won't have a chance at freeing it in their lives and who have been wanting to do it since it was an aid route have a pass. Beginner wall climbers looking for practice routes do not.
Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Jan 31, 2015 - 02:21pm PT
Just do it, it's only climbing and not worth over thinking. As long as your not hooking or nailing it your not doing anymore damage than the average "free" ascent.
Trashman

Trad climber
SLC
Jan 31, 2015 - 02:34pm PT



Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT

Jan 31, 2015 - 09:51am PT
Don'tcha hate it when a free climb ruins a perfectly good aid route?

C'mon Brian, when has that ever happened. Aid climbers take priority and those "free sissies" can go pound sand. I hear Astroman is an even better beginners wall, just don't get your sack stuck in that slot.

FWIW, one of the first free ascentionists is on the record(on the Taco no less) saying the crux is a size and a half bigger since they did it. Those free climbers must be strong to pry the crack open like that.

An people wonder why no one wants to give up the goods on Kolob…
Reeotch

climber
4 Corners Area
Jan 31, 2015 - 02:50pm PT
For the vast majority of climbers, Moonlight is an aid climb. And, I think it is debatable whether or not clean aid is less destructive, especially when people are not really ready to free it and take repeated whippers on the same piece of gear, possibly scrubbing footholds and such, stuff that is no problem on granite but really shouldn't be done on sandstone. Moonlight is an super-classic line, free or aid.

+1 that this smacks of elitism. It would be different if it was .10d instead of .12d. Then the climb would be available as a free climb to a far greater proportion of the climbing community. Numbers matter. Right now, there are still a lot more people for whom Moonlight is an aid climb.

This is an important discussion. I'm wondering if TokerVillan will chime in?
caughtinside

Social climber
Oakland, CA
Jan 31, 2015 - 03:43pm PT
.12d is hard but I wouldn't call it elite. Most of the climb is easier.
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
Jan 31, 2015 - 03:50pm PT
... no talent bumblef*#k to be aiding on Moonlight, and you'll know it when you get passed by 2 chicks freeing the thing...

Wait... we are letting this misogynistic comment go by unwashed?
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Jan 31, 2015 - 04:01pm PT
Maybe I'm from a different era, but I always think if you do a route in the same style or better as the FA it is legit. Standards and gear have changed things, but the FA sets the precedent.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jan 31, 2015 - 04:27pm PT
WOW!! Really? That is one of the stupidest things I've read! ONE!


I won't stop anyone from doing it, and I think if you've been wanting to do it for some time now back when it was reasonable it isn't the same as treating it like some warm-up or outdoor gym.

This is called a 'grey area.' OP asked for the opinion of his peers - I gave it. No one is going to hand out tickets, just as someone camping on a porta-ledge on the rostrum would be met with nothing more than eye-rolls.
LearningTrad

Trad climber
Jan 31, 2015 - 04:51pm PT
Send that rig braj!!!!11!!1
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jan 31, 2015 - 05:10pm PT
Rap it. With a keg covered in reflectors. Get the freeclimbers drunk.
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Jan 31, 2015 - 07:39pm PT
Ever since there was more than one climber its been a matter of "what I do is valid, what you do not so much." Same as it ever was. Have fun, don't be a jerk, come back alive. All the rest is gnashing and wailing.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jan 31, 2015 - 08:14pm PT
If you are free climbing at that standard, there are not many routes available to you...in the country, much less just in Zion.

If you are aid climbing at that standard, there are a load of routes available to you, and many in Zion, of equal or superior quality, some a mere stone's throw away, that have not gone free, that see little traffic.

So it's mostly about a little courtesy for the fact that the free climber pushing their limits have few options compared to the aid climber, and the relentless aiding does change the route much quicker, not just considering 4' spaced, always weighted protection placements, but also all the dragging of boots and whatnot.



Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Jan 31, 2015 - 08:26pm PT
Off White has it right, have fun, don't be a jerk and come back alive.
Moonlight has history and is always going to be high on peoples tick list be it free or aid.
I'll be on Lunar Ecstasy and Space Shot in a few months, hopefully between now and then they dont become super popular free routes.
coolrockclimberguy69

climber
Jan 31, 2015 - 10:20pm PT
Aiding up Moonlight Buttress is like beating off to Samantha Fox.
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
Jan 31, 2015 - 10:31pm PT
^^^^^ We have a winner!^^^^
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 1, 2015 - 08:42am PT
Do whatever style of ascent you want, but you're basically a no talent bumblef*#k to be aiding on Moonlight, and you'll know it when you get passed by 2 chicks freeing the thing.

since when is being a no talent bumblef*#k getting passed by two chicks freeclimbing on a wall a bad thing?
dirhk

Trad climber
Feb 1, 2015 - 12:29pm PT
If you are free climbing at that standard, there are not many routes available to you...in the country, much less just in Zion.

If you are aid climbing at that standard, there are a load of routes available to you, and many in Zion, of equal or superior quality, some a mere stone's throw away, that have not gone free, that see little traffic.

Are you mental?

There are so many 5.12+ amazing free routes around. Many in Zion. The list just goes on and on and on. Squamish, Zion, Yosemite, the Black - they are full of em.

Now make a list of 10 pitch fully C1 routes that even come close to the aesthetic of moonlight.

Assuming I'm wrong, just think of the guys up there firing moonlight free telling the gumby aid climbers that moonlight is one of the few routes will properly challenge them. I bet the aid climbers would feel so bad for them. Those poor guys, so skilled that they are running out of stuff to do.

Most lame argument ever.


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