Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2015 - 02:24pm PT
|
And here's a rare photo of Cragman on the right in a walk off!
|
|
vector
climber
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2015 - 02:53pm PT
|
NooB experience #4 (or 4,000, or whatever)
Two climbers do Royal Arches. "4-eyes", wearing rx sunglasses, leaves the fanny pack including prescription glasses on top of the pitch just before the pine needle traverse, realizes this, wants a belay to go back; partner says, "No time, I got to be at work in the morning." 4-eyes says, "I'll bivvy at the top of North Dome Gully, can't see to descend," spends the night, walks down easily, though thirsty, at sunrise and makes it to work by noon. Partner apparently gets very lost on the descent, wanders into Upper (or Lower) Pines campground where he is found confused and disoriented at 4 AM, and is taken to the clinic, rehydrated, but doesn't make it to work at all. Kindly Camp 4 denizen retrieves fanny pack, eyeglasses and all, for $10 and a bag of chocolate chip cookies.
No reflectors! This kind of experience is an important part of climbing. It's not supposed to be a playpen.
|
|
Woody the Beaver
Trad climber
Soldier, Idaho
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2015 - 02:57pm PT
|
A 15-20 rap descent down a Valley wall vs. a hike down? Good heavens. I did the route just once in '75 or so and we hiked down the ND gully, laughing and bitching all the way. It wasn't that bad. Doing that many raps on an occasionally crowded rap route sounds like inviting a lot of risk along.
|
|
le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2015 - 03:16pm PT
|
Terrible news about this young person's death. RIP.
+1 ablegabel point of view.
Here's a look back at that last slab pitch from the forest.
|
|
StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2015 - 03:58pm PT
|
We always hoofed it down the ND gully. If the mungey traverse is too sketchy it is easy to throw a rope on it.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2015 - 04:07pm PT
|
camera tilt!!
stinkbuggin'
|
|
rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2015 - 04:20pm PT
|
camera tilt!!
No kidding. Aligning with trees in the valley, it's more like
|
|
sDawg
climber
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2015 - 04:39pm PT
|
Ethics aside, do you want to be responsible for the climber who sees the reflectors, has an easy time rappeling, and starts up a harder, less well-traveled and/or more remote climb just as poorly prepared as they did on RA because it didn't cause them any trouble the first time? Or even expects the reflectors to be there on another easy valley climb? Anyone getting stuck on the rappel likely doesn't have the benefit of a mentor to explain that this is a special case and not to be expected elsewhere.
|
|
chappy
Social climber
ventura
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2015 - 05:21pm PT
|
The one thing that I keep coming back to is to have knots in the end of your ropes. This alone would prevent most rappelling errors from turning fatal. This was something I learned as a beginner--along with testing the pull before the second came down. We also learned how to prussic back up lines if necessary. I am somewhat surprised by this failure to use such a basic safety technique.
|
|
climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2015 - 06:03pm PT
|
reflectors reflectors reflectors!!!! Wooot we gots reflectors.. look at the shiny object people!
Lol Folks sure got sidetracked by a well meant idea. I'm not much persuaded by the "We don't do things that way" type of argument. Consensus does matter a fair bit and in this case it's pretty clear what that is. Most important are some good points regarding the fact that they are not very reliable. Thus they add as much of a potential problem as they do a solution.
Idea down the tube. If you got a chuckle out of it or were shocked by the apparent stupidity of the idea I'm happy to have entertained.
Remind me not to mention some of my really out there ideas. Sometimes I like ideas just for the exercise of running them fully into the ground.
While in my mind the idea of rapping off royal arches is not the safest or for that matter most enjoyable, easiest or fastest way back down the fact remains that it is done ALOT!
Solid experienced climbers have found the current situation unnecessarily difficult.
Some good improvements to the route have been seriously proposed.
Cleanup, replacement, arrows and a new line at 15 seem well within normal standards and are improvements that will save time and trouble and possibly tragedy in the future. I do know as several have mentioned nothing but luck can save someone running on idiot mode.
I've made a commitment to Roger to help out in a few months on some of this stuff.
I too actually am concerned that if this is done well enough the word could get around that rapping is no big deal on arches. Hope not and I am still convinced that improving a few basic issues is well worth my time.
Seems like there is mostly consensus on that.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2015 - 09:54pm PT
|
it takes less time to walk down the NDG than to come down the rap route... especially on a day that the rap route is crowded...
|
|
climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2015 - 10:06pm PT
|
^ no doubt.. yet people can be watched every night heading down it.
As you mention there are days the raps are crowded.
Changing this does not seem likely,
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2015 - 10:42pm PT
|
Royal Arches accidents that made ANAM from 2014 back to 1987 (with the exception of 1993 and 1996):
1991 - fatal fall descending the NDG
1994 - rescue on rap route, pulled rope before untying the stopper knot
1999 - rescue, benighted, in the rain
1999 - rescue, climber stuck at the end of the his rope on the rap route
1999 - rescue, got lost on the rap route in the dark
2001 - injury fall scrambling to the rim in the dark
2005 - injury fall on route, benighted
2006 - rescue, benighted
2008 - rescue, lost descending the NDG
2008 - injury fall on the rap route
2012 - rescue, stuck on the rap route over night
2013 - injury fall on the rap route
2014 - rescue on rap route, pulled rope before untying the stopper knot
2014 - rescue, lost descending the NDG
|
|
CCT
Trad climber
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2015 - 11:29pm PT
|
If there is one thing we can learn from Ed's list, it's that the RA descent is a lot more dangerous than the route itself.
NDG: 4 incidents
Rappel route: 7 incidents
On the route itself: 3 incidents, all benighted
|
|
ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2015 - 11:33pm PT
|
|
|
overwatch
climber
|
|
|
Jan 31, 2015 - 12:00am PT
|
maybe it is the weed but god damn fet that sh#t was funny.
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
|
|
|
Jan 31, 2015 - 12:20am PT
|
Where is the 5.8 on Royal Arches? I don't remember any 5.8. Is that what replaced the rotten log?
|
|
Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
|
|
|
Jan 31, 2015 - 07:16am PT
|
The whole rappelling notion is slowing all these parties down
And creating a rescue bonanza
An extra rope, the idea that " well just rap " is so lamely romantic that
People are moving like snails up the climb itself setting multidirectional
Anchors doing everything by the book being super safe on the climb
Etc
More importantly getting off the climb and going for a quick walk over to NDG
Is a great chance to get out in the "wildness",continue to make proper
Routefinding decisions and move through terrain in a timely manner
All these things help you grow as a climber .
|
|
chappy
Social climber
ventura
|
|
|
Jan 31, 2015 - 07:38am PT
|
Ed,
Judging by your post apparently stopper knots are still used...maybe they are not such a good idea. At least they didn't die! The bottom line is you get a bunch of novices on a long climb with a long decent via rapping or the NDG and accidents happen.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!