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Powder
Trad climber
the Flower Box
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Dec 20, 2014 - 08:03am PT
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Maybe we are the dumb ones...
The thread is clearly for a "Hartuni" (and also "Hartoni,") not the Hartouni we all know and think it was intended to... No one'd address a person incorrectly twice in a row after being reminded...!?
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-_-;;
Happy Holidays~ *^_^*
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 20, 2014 - 08:18am PT
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ron gomez,
Be smart enough not to think that if someone doesn't have your opinion, ... respect it and move on.
Your hero ED has not done this. e.g. move on
Perhaps we and you could apply your advice to him.
I like the way you dig yourself into a hole. happy holidays brother.
Mark de Force: Right ON. could not agree with you more.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Dec 20, 2014 - 08:22am PT
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Friend is far from hero.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Dec 20, 2014 - 08:25am PT
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This is a dumb thread.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 20, 2014 - 08:35am PT
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The subtle intricacies of life are not always clear for apogee who is always swimming on the surface at the shallow end of the pool .....
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Dec 20, 2014 - 08:50am PT
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
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Dec 20, 2014 - 08:54am PT
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I'm glad Ed is optimistic. He has educated this dumb ST user.
Thanks Ed, for helping to make us climbers less dumb.
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
Marcus McCoy from Nevada City
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Dec 20, 2014 - 09:12am PT
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Being optimistic is such an endearing quality...
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Dec 20, 2014 - 09:53am PT
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I am optimistic about being born in the USA instead of Canada.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Dec 20, 2014 - 10:04am PT
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Leader, not sidekick aptitude.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Dec 20, 2014 - 10:27am PT
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I like the Ed I see on this board. He doesn't treat me like an idiot for acting like an idiot, the way the other humans like to do. It's one of his most impressive intelligences.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 20, 2014 - 11:06am PT
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wow, thanks for the love everyone...
Dingus McGee loves a debate, and he also likes to be the "top dog," I like his "aww shucks" way of edging into them.
My Climate Thread participation has many personal motivations. First is to learn about the research, and the thread helps with that... someone might post up some "news" and I enjoy tracking down the technical source and reading, and then explaining. Some might put up a "technical article" making a point, and once again, I can read the article and see whether or not it makes any sense.
So whatever you think about the science of climate change, I use your posts to motivate my own education. If I am optimistic about anything, it is that I can read and understand the scientific literature concerning climate.
Another motivation is to try to separate the discussions of the consequences of climate change from the science showing that there is climate change, and that humans have a role in that change. Interestingly, you can see from his post above that Dingus McGee hasn't quite learned how to do that separation himself. Arguing the science case also helps illustrate the methods of the science, which is something more general than just the climate thread.
In my mind, science is a "democratic" process open to anyone willing to take the time to learn it. It's not easy to do, but it is possible, and given someone to ask questions of it goes a bit quicker... so that is another optimism, that people view science as something accessible, not the domain of an elite few. At any rate, I'm willing to answer questions in a way that helps people go farther on their own. Dingus is no stranger to the optimism of self-actualization in the intellectual domain. So on that front, his own activities in this direction are a partial support of my optimism.
There are larger issues that the climate change science brings to the fore, and that has to do with the presence of humans at all, and the implications of intelligence, these are more philosophical musings.... science makes predictions and certainly our understanding of the natural history of life on Earth indicates that the human species will not survive into the indefinite future. That species, our species, will end. The existential issues of individual death are difficult enough, we haven't come to grips at all about the end of the human species. This in itself seems tremendously pessimistic thinking from a human perspective, but optimistic about life.
The issue that I find interesting is the interplay between our predictions for the future: climate change is certainly going to be a difficult challenge, and the rise of drug resistant bacteria being even more alarming as we've had a 70 odd year run successfully fending off bacterial infection; with our own personal behaviors. Our use of antibiotics makes a fascinating story with regard to our behavior. I don't think that my view of the outcome would be termed "optimistic."
From an ecology point of view, we are driving a huge extinction of life on Earth even as we succeed. Given that there have been other extinctions in the history of Earth I'm not worried that life won't continue, and anyway, most of the biomass is tied up in single cell life... multi-celluar life being rarer. And the ants have an equivalent biomass as us humans, and I don't doubt that they'll figure something out in their own social order approach where ours might not. Anyone who's climbed in Yosemite off the beaten path recognize the ants as a real force.
And finally we get to contemplate the ending of the universe that we know... coming up sooner than later, but in a time so far removed there will be no memories of our own ideas regarding it when it happens.
But I'm not being philosophical here, just applying what science we've gleaned over this few hundred years of doing it.
Newton did and wrote so many amazing things, but of his wonder of that we have tucked away in his book Opticks
I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me.
while I do not have Newton's belief in absolute truth, his sentiment is clear and has my deep empathy.
Dingus McGee, what's got into you, boy?
I am not trying to convince anyone of anything, if you are bored with smooth pebbles or pretty shells I'll stop showing you, or you can stop looking...
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Dec 20, 2014 - 11:13am PT
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Finally something not dumb!
Thanks Ed......" My Hero"
Peace
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Dec 20, 2014 - 12:03pm PT
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Ed, You've probably posted this somewhere but what specifically is your field?
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Dec 20, 2014 - 12:15pm PT
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Attempting all fields?
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Dec 20, 2014 - 12:22pm PT
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hey there say, ed... wow, ed... i just stepped in here, to see what this thread is about... as--if turning the ol' pages of a newspaper, that arrives, everyday... or, checking out a magazine...
thought i'd stop on the page and say this:
wow, i love this way of presenting how you feel about life, etc:
I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me.
thanks so much for sharing this...
hee hee, you forgot one things though:
you are a little boy with a camera, and a really great eye, for photos, :)
awwww, a boy and his sea shore...
or a boy and dog...
or a boy and his woodlands and rocks...
or a boy and CAMERA, as well...
happy good day to you, and as the holidays roll, like waves,
along shore, ever nearer...
may the time with family and loved ones, be sweet!!!
and even picturesque... :)
and --if you don't have a pup-dog... hope you get to pet-and-enjoy
a good friend's puppy, :)
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Dec 20, 2014 - 12:26pm PT
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What a beautiful string of b.s. portraying the scientific endeavor, Ed.
Now please acknowledge the warts.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Dec 20, 2014 - 12:31pm PT
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Rick, huh?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 20, 2014 - 12:33pm PT
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ah rick, so predictable...
but you can learn about warts yourself, you can do it! I'm optimistic!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wart
There are as many as 10 varieties of warts, the most common considered to be mostly harmless. It is possible to get warts from others; they are contagious... They typically disappear after a few months but can last for years and can recur.
and it opens the door to the fascinating discussion of viruses, both real and metaphoric...
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