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Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 18, 2014 - 11:10am PT
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Hiya,
I'm putting all the information into a climbing app for AK and I'm also updating the climbing guide. I'm trying to add a lot more information about the height of each route. I'd like to be as close as possible and I was thinking about a few ways.
Rangefinder - some of these can be somewhat close but not from the base of most routes as you can't always see the top.
Rope - Are there any ropes out there that are marked per meter? I was thinking this would be a perfect way to record the route as it was climbed. Otherwise I could mark it myself.
What have other people done in the past?
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Dec 18, 2014 - 11:19am PT
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I carry around a 2" tall figurine of the Space Needle and hold it up to things to see how tall they are.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Dec 18, 2014 - 11:48am PT
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The story goes that when explorers/cowboys first hiked to Standing Rock they really wanted to figure out how tall this skinny tower was and came up with the idea of a helium balloon on a string.
I maybe read this in an old National Geographic or heard this from someone.
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/standing-rock/105717021
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D'Wolf
climber
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Dec 18, 2014 - 12:42pm PT
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Are you planning to actually climb these routes? If so, GPS the altitude at the base and again at the summit.
Google Earth will also show altitude/elevation. Zoom in on your location, move you cursor/pointer where you want it and check the elevation (lower right corner of your screen). I've verified some Google Earth elevations with a GPS and found them to be pretty accurate.
Thom
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jonnyrig
climber
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Dec 18, 2014 - 12:57pm PT
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Trundle something large enough to hear it hit bottom, then count the seconds. There's a formula out there for time vs distance.
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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Dec 18, 2014 - 01:12pm PT
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Trundle something large enough to hear it hit bottom, then count the seconds. There's a formula out there for time vs distance.
A barometer can be used for this purpose.
Huck it, then calculate impact 16ft/sec/sec.
As mentioned upthread, you can carry the barometer with you, and peg off the height in barometer units.
Or, finally, find someone who's already accounted for the height. Then offer them your fine barometer in exchange for their beta.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Dec 18, 2014 - 01:25pm PT
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I assume you are talking about height of pitches for single pitch climbs.
My advice is to only show the height when they are close to 100' (say 90-110').
That way people get a warning if it is close or not possible to lower or rap off with a 60m rope.
This cuts down on the amount of work and potentially on the number of wrong lengths in the route guide.
Also it focuses attention on the routes where care should be given to the rope length.
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goatboy smellz
climber
लघिमा
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Dec 18, 2014 - 01:32pm PT
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Trundle something large enough to hear it hit bottom, then count the seconds. There's a formula out there for time vs distance.
Toss a cat off the summit and measure the seconds of howling until impact.
Here is a link for crunching the math.
http://c21.phas.ubc.ca/article/falling-cats
Might want to have a spotter at the base so the dead cat bounce noise does not corrupt the data.
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coolrockclimberguy69
climber
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Dec 18, 2014 - 02:01pm PT
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linear height from the base to the anchors or how much rope is out when you are at the anchors?
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 18, 2014 - 02:13pm PT
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Just give up and guess.
Why tax your brain over this trivial stuff.
Everyone does it anyways ..... :-)
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Barbarian
climber
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Dec 18, 2014 - 03:49pm PT
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Drag a very long measuring tape behind you. Make sure one end is secured to the ground. This method is very accurate if you pull the tape tight when you get to the top.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Dec 18, 2014 - 07:04pm PT
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Throw a barometer off the summit and measure how long it takes to fall.
D= 1/2*at^2
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coolrockclimberguy69
climber
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Dec 18, 2014 - 07:11pm PT
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Lots of good input here, TFPU. If anything is to be taken from all this excellent advise it's that basically you're gonna die.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Dec 18, 2014 - 07:34pm PT
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Rap off, look at how much rope is on the ground.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
in the oil patch...Fricken Bakken, that's where
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Dec 18, 2014 - 08:28pm PT
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Stack dead cats and then count how many it takes.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Dec 18, 2014 - 09:38pm PT
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Size matters?
More seriously. Lets say you get very accurate about height. Lets say it is exactly 205 feet tall. Yet it is a slab.. A 60M rapell is not going to get you to the bottom. Height could be misleading for climbing purposes. Length matters but perhaps not height.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Dec 18, 2014 - 09:44pm PT
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I was often curious of the climbing distance/actual height ratio of desert spire climbs and elsewhere, so I would measure many of my routes. For rappels, it's pretty easy to measure the length by knowing the length of the rope, then subtract leftover by measuring how many arm spans. I'm 6' tall, so for example, five arm spans of extra rope at the bottom of a rappel with a 180' rope would mean that section was 150' vertical.
I took notes this way on the rappels on Great Trango, which is why I know it was 4400' vertical (with probably +/- 5% error). Climbing distance was much more, of course.
Edit: as mentioned above, this only applies to vertical, for slabs, do some rough trigonometry!
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Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 19, 2014 - 11:52am PT
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D'Wolf - I've already climbed many of them but as I reclimb many of them I was thinking about taking measurements. GPS isn't really that accurate out here it seems. You can use GPS averaging but I don't think it works as well when you are moving and to sit at the top of each climb until it gets an accurate measurement seems pretty time consuming. Then again is 20ft going to be a huge problem? Probably only if its around 30m...Do you know how accurate Google Earth is on it's elevations? Can you see the side of the cliff? They don't even have good photos of an area like Hatcher Pass.
Clint - That is currently what I have in the book, measurements that I think will matter if you only have a 60m rope but I've been getting requests for more measurements. You do have a good point about the focus being on those routes who need the measurement. I'll have to keep that in mind.
coolrockclimberguy69 - That is what I was thinking too but the question is how to measure it. I don't want to have to guess or pull rope through and count it for every route.
WBraun - Somehow that does actually make me feel better heh. I may end up doing that but I've had a few measurements that I didn't think were guesses actually come up wrong and it could have been bad news. I measured my rope and came up with a climb thinking it was 29-30m because of my rope being just long enough. But we'd climbed all day and taken some falls and it turned out my rope had stretched quite a bit, me being 245lbs and all...and when my friend went back he was a good 10-15 ft off the deck. I'm not sure if any of these measurement types would help fix that type of issue and I'm sure a lot of that responsibility must come down to the climber who should have tied knots in the end of the rope too. But I still like to think of ways to make my book more accurate and informative. :)
Barbarian - That would give a very direct line but many of the routes up here meander. Few are actually straight and I don't think it would give an accurate measurement of the route.
climbski2 - That is part of my thinking with acutally marking a rope with measurements. I feel it would give me an accurate measurement of the route itself.
duece4 - I have done that for routes as well but would prefer not having to remember that for each of the 800 routes in the book that I'd like to get measurements for.
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Texplorer
Trad climber
Sacramento
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Dec 19, 2014 - 11:56am PT
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It's not the height of a route but the motion in the ocean.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Dec 19, 2014 - 12:23pm PT
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I think in lieu of accurate surveying equipment, the only way is to reclimb all 800 climbs!
just kidding, but I suspect that you will only get rough measurements from Google Maps or generally available elevation data--the resolution of the data might not be as accurate as you likely want, especially if you are measuring mountains with variable angled terrain.
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