Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2014 - 09:03am PT
|
Never made a small penis insult. I just asked that you ate one of your own size choice.
|
|
HermitMaster
Social climber
my abode
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2014 - 09:03am PT
|
"How about how a modern wood stove works? "
You put wood in it, light it on fire. Open the vents to your choosing, turn a fan on if you have one, and close the door.
Do I get a post card?
|
|
Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2014 - 09:07am PT
|
there about us is fixed amount of matter,
just idling away awaiting its turn at phase change.
a large portion of the wood fuel will change phase
via environmental burn if we do not harness it
in our conditioned dwellings.
so what the f*#k do we gain by shite canning our wood stoves
and plugging in a electric unit that draws on dammed rivers?
or perhaps we should use a propane heater that
requires petroleum extraction, processing and delivery?
me me me f*#k me.
|
|
BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2014 - 09:08am PT
|
Theres a little more to it than that, but yes. Theres a secondary burn tube system that pulls air into those tubes that cross the ceiling of the firebox, then out their holes and the oxygen ignites at temperature, making a second burn of the gases emitted when the wood initially burns. Same principle as air injection smog equipment on 70's and 80's cars, except the stove doesnt need an air pump. The firebox is insulated with fire bricks and ceramic blanket, all to keep box temps higher and thus cleaner, while keeping more heat in the box for longer. The ceramic glass also projects heat pretty directly out the front as well. Basically making the most heat out of the least wood. Its then up to the user to have things properly installed and maintained, and to use it properly, service it properly, and burn good wood.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2014 - 10:41am PT
|
I used to hate it in Alaska when there was no wind and it was really cold -
you couldn't go outside for the damn air pollution and we only had like 6
neighbors within a half mile! The smoke would cool so quickly it would fall
back down to the surface.
|
|
BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2014 - 10:49am PT
|
Yup, cold air sinks that stuff in. I would bet folks were running 'dirty' systems and maybe even burning refuse. My work is surrounded by a small neighborhood where the cold just sinks in and condenses the overnight smoke and it takes until mid morning to rise and dissipate, we smell it in the hospital from about 4am till about 8am. Its older more modest housing and Im sure it would be less if people werent still running old dilapidated stuff. Ive been in many houses in town and have seen such a wide variety of setups its ridiculous. There are still a bunch of dirty old systems out there that people cant afford to replace or be without.
|
|
mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2014 - 11:32am PT
|
Buddhastalin is wrong. Even modern residential wood stoves emit WAY more harmful particulates that any other heating source, and that is under perfect advertising-test circumstances which do not remotely correspond to actual real-world operating conditions. When they're heating up (which takes a while), they're just as dirty as a 19th century stove. And Bs certainly knows that most of the wood burned around here is NOT good wood for the purpose, but instead pine, often not very dry. In the last couple of years, I've read hundreds of pages of the actual science papers and huge agency reports with a zillion references, and those are the undeniable facts. Wood burning is unequivocally very detrimental to the health of everyone in the area. That fact is not altered by the fact that other human actions produce pollution too (not nearly as much).
That said, wood burning is a nearly carbon-neutral way to heat, it's a consideration. But the health effects are adverse and significant.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2014 - 11:40am PT
|
What can be done!!!
You earthlings can never get your sh!t together.
Everything you do is harmful to everything else.
This proves you're on the wrong planet ......
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2014 - 12:06pm PT
|
^^^^^^ TOTALLYY! Things will be sooo much better on Mars! I can't wait!
|
|
Sredni Vashtar
Social climber
out in front
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2014 - 12:25pm PT
|
SteveA- have no fear about having nothing to burn in England, there's plenty and stuff grows dang fast
You cant just wild harvest though, a lot of forest is state managed and you'll need a license
|
|
rincon
Trad climber
Coarsegold
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2014 - 12:26pm PT
|
Around here people burn things. Woodstoves are nothing compared to all the debris fires. Yesterday was leaf burning day for my neighbor...dude had like 4 or 5 piles going at once. I went down to town and on the way home, could see the plume of smoke rising from a mile away. I blew it by leaving the garage door open and letting all the smoke in, now it stinks like burnt leaves.
|
|
fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2014 - 12:52pm PT
|
Get a modern stove.
Jotul Firelight....
Just awesome.
The modern re-burning stoves are catalytic free. Once they heat up there's almost no smoke. We burn about 5-7 cords of hardwood a year and with the modern stove there is no creosote for me to brush at the end of the year, just a light carbon coating that comes out in 4-5 passes of the brush.
With the old Vermont Castings (circa '85) stove, that thing belched out smoke and creosote all day long. I'd have to scrape out about 1/4" of carmelized creosote at least 2-3 times during the season. Filthy thing.
The key is DRY hardwood and keeping the operating temps over 400 measured on the top.
|
|
Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2014 - 01:18pm PT
|
I bought a used Artic 25 years ago, burn all sorts of nasty wood in it, never have any build up in it. Smokes when I first light it, but once it is blazing away there is no smoke or smell outside. I have about 14 feet of straight up stove pipe and that stove draws a hell of a draft, and burns hot. The stove pipe rusts out before I have to clean it. I have only bought wood one year.
|
|
Floorabove
climber
The Gunks y'all
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2014 - 02:55pm PT
|
Soapstone!!!
Hold the heat for a looooonnng time.
And EPA compliant for those that care
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2014 - 05:14pm PT
|
I've looked at soapstone stoves for my one room cabin. It seems like it might keep the temperature reasonably warm all night if hot when one went to bed?
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2014 - 06:17pm PT
|
Pretty close to what mine was like.
You can look, but you better not touch.
Sure heated up the room fast. At bedtime, we'd jam it full with as much wood as we could, close everything up tight and it would smoulder pretty much all night.
|
|
BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2014 - 06:30pm PT
|
Wow what an old dinosaur! Fire-view? They definitely dont make em like that anymore!
For mongrel, perhaps I didnt communicate myself well, I never have thought that woodburning units were cleaner than gas and such. I assume thats what Im wrong about? I do however dont always like electricity as a source of power since its rarely 'clean' either, and as a truckeeite you know how often we can lose power, sometimes rapid fire like today in TD. I certainly cant give up my stove at this point in time, im just glad that I already have a modern type stove thats about as clean as woods gonna be and that I can burn good wood and so on. People dont acknowledge the impact of where things like electricity comes from and what it takes to manufacture their hybrid car, etc the impact isnt visible on the everyday, it makes that guilt less visible.
That said, sometimes that smoke settles in and when the conditions are right and theres lots of people burning, like around xmas, its like the summer when its was choked with widfire smoke. Ive aborted a daily run after a half mile because it felt like bejing out there.
Somewhere along the way in this thread, I hope the OP got his stove setup fixed.....
|
|
mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2014 - 08:14pm PT
|
Sounds like we're exactly on the same page then, Buddha. If you're going to burn wood, definitely have the best device, use it well, and so on.
Just for quantitative completeness of the thread, though, even "EPA certified" whoop de doo stoves emit an enormous amount of PM2.5, the worst stuff. And the chemical composition of wood stove PM2.5 (vs. dust PM2.5) is particularly harmful. If you look at the most current EPA certified list (Nov 2014), you see that efficiencies (I guess heating efficiency) are mostly in the range of 63-72 percent, and emissions are in the range of about 1.5 to 6 GRAMS per hour, probably an average for all certified stoves of about 3 or higher. A whole gram of wood smoke particles is a LOT of particles, and that's every hour, for maybe 6-8 months in Truckee for example, and doesn't even count the giant slug of emissions when you light it or when it's not burning perfectly. That's like 35 pounds of wood smoke particles every year, from the best stoves operating perfectly. No wonder we get smoked out when there's an inversion!
I do like the aesthetics of a nice wood fire, it is beautiful and mystical and very primal. But we're long past time to allow wood burning facilities in any new residential construction, period, except on parcels of a minimum or 20 or 100 acres, where it doesn't affect anyone else so much. If you gotta have flame, go gas. A go play outdoors! You don't need to heat the house much when you're out getting some.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!