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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Nov 27, 2014 - 12:13pm PT
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Chief, using the founding fathers to make a point is stupid. They were not a uniform group that held universal values. They were diverse and many hated each other.
They were human beings. The pic you posted contains both anti-federalists and federalists. Polar opposites.
You are simply perpetuating the myth of American Exceptionalism.
Why do you republicans deify these men???
And I dont know where you learned American History, but the painting of the 2nd Continental Congress that you posted is flat out false. Talk about artistic liberty....
At no point during the years of the revolution did all the members of the congress, 'Our Founding Fathers', meet at the same time in the same place. For much of the revolution, these men had to meet in the dead of night and in secret. Where did that armed militia outside the door of the meetings comment come from??
EDIT:
I have heard many people blame parents.
For a variety of reasons, many people cannot properly raise a child. Since so many of these people suck at raising kids, shouldn't Uncle Sam step in and start regulating who can have a child???
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Nov 27, 2014 - 12:25pm PT
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CLEVELAND, Ohio – Cleveland police waited four minutes to deliver first aid to Tamir Rice after a rookie officer shot the 12-year-old boy Saturday outside a recreation center, police said.
Patrolman Timothy Loehmann shot Rice twice at point-blank range immediately after the officer sprung from the passenger seat of a moving police cruiser that skid to a stop just feet from the boy, surveillance video shows.
Rice lay on the snow-covered grass beside the cruiser's passenger side for four minutes as Loehmann, 26, took cover behind the trunk and Patrolman Frank Garmback, the driver, positioned himself opposite his partner near Rice's body.
Rice wasn't given first aid until a medically trained FBI agent on duty in the area arrived at the scene -- Cudell Recreation Center on the city's West Side.
One of the police officers then helped the agent administer first aid, Deputy Police Chief Edward Tomba said at a Wednesday press briefing. An emergency medical crew arrived three minutes later, Tomba said.
Rice was struck in the abdomen. He died while being treated at MetroHealth Medical Center.
Police were sent to the recreation center after a man called 9-1-1 to report a "guy with a pistol" who was "pointing it at everybody."
Surveillance videos shows Rice waving a gun, which turned out to be an airsoft-type gun with the orange safety tip removed, and pointing it off camera. He also took a moment to play with the snow and lob a snowball onto the sidewalk.
The man who called 9-1-1 told a dispatcher the gun may not be real and the person who carried it was "probably a juvenile."
That information was not given to the officers.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Nov 27, 2014 - 01:13pm PT
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Why do you republicans deify these men???
Good question. The conservatives of 1776 wanted to hang those men.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Nov 27, 2014 - 04:23pm PT
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Is there any male out there who did not play 'war' or 'cops and robbers' or 'soldiers' or whatever as a little kid???
The environment and attitudes of 1960 are vastly different than today, and to compare 1960 to 2014 is ignorant.
I am scared for my life. Wave a gun around in public? I say that, in 2014, the police should shoot first and ask questions later.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Aurora Colorado
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Nov 27, 2014 - 04:29pm PT
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Nov 27, 2014 - 04:41pm PT
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The environment and attitudes of 1960 are vastly different than today, and to compare 1960 to 2014 is ignorant.
I am scared for my life. Wave a gun around in public? I say that, in 2014, the police should shoot first and ask questions later.
I am 30 years old. I was waving fake guns around my upscale neighborhood with other white kids in the 1990's.
Not sure who compared anything to 1960's...
You are scared for your life??? I suggest you get a CC permit then...Better yet, just dont leave your house
EDIT: Shoot first, and THEN ask questions and reflect on the appropriateness of that shooting later...all I can say is WOW
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Nov 27, 2014 - 04:44pm PT
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Ron posted Nope, it IS true. Our govt has slowly been turning tyrannical. And when the American public senses some freedom will disappear, they WILL go in droves to see that they obtain said freedom.
This is the kind of post I find the most disturbing. People like Ron enjoy enormous privilege in this country and act like it. They say that things are going south and that "some day" "the people" will "rise up." In the meantime, people who have actually been suffering tyranny ARE rising up and he dismisses, marginalizes and denounces them as doing it the "wrong way." This is exactly the story of racism in this country and it happens over and over again.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 27, 2014 - 07:25pm PT
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shouldn't Uncle Sam step in and start regulating who can have a child???
Interesting idea. In fact the crime rate has dropped significantly over the last 3 decades, it is direct correlation with the effects of Roe v. Wade on the availability of abortion. A fact the right wing would rather avoid.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujň de la Playa
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Nov 27, 2014 - 08:00pm PT
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How many Hell's Angels have been shot by the police?
Nobody seems to know.
Vagos? Mongols?
They did get a few of the Angel's dogs.
“A California county will pay nearly $1 million to settle a lawsuit brought by the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club after police shot and killed three guard dogs during raids of the group’s headquarters and suspected members’ homes.” Santa Clara County supervisors okayed the $990,000 settlement
How much will the Brown and Rice families get?
That would be Santa Clara County in case you're wondering.
the San Jose police officers failed to do anything to find a non-lethal way of incapacitating the animals, the courts said
We still wave old glory down at the courthouse!
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Nov 28, 2014 - 05:20am PT
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Not in my town.
You forgot about the part of the 911 caller saying the gun was probably a toy and the person a juvenile.
You also forgot about the part of the kid playing in the snow and lobbing a snow ball on to the sidewalk during the time he was waving his gun around.
And, you forgot about the part of the police pulling their car to within feet of the kid, the officer jumping out of the still moving cruiser, telling the kid to show his hands and getting off two rounds all within two seconds (according to the police).
And, you forgot about the police not giving medical aid to the kid until an FBI agent in the area arrived and did so, four minutes later, at which point the none-shooting officer helped the FBI agent.
A kid is dead, and you are glib.
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Nov 28, 2014 - 05:38am PT
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Someone asked if kids (boys) in Europe play with toy guns. The answer is no, based upon 15 years of observation of my son and his friends. They do however love video games with shooting. But pointing a PS3 controller at people is non-threatening.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Nov 28, 2014 - 06:24am PT
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CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Former New York police detective Frank Serpico – famously portrayed by Al Pacino in the 1973 movie "Serpico" – believes the use of excessive force by police officers is a growing problem.
For those who don't know, Serpico, who retired in 1972, tried to blow the whistle on corrupt NYPD cops but was shunned by his fellow officers. At the age of 78, cops and police unions continue to vilify him and he continues to speak out.
His latest observation? Serpico sees the use of excessive force as the new corruption.
"But an even more serious problem — police violence — has probably grown worse, and it's out of control for the same reason that graft once was: a lack of accountability," Serpico writes in an October essay published by Politico Magazine that has received wide attention.
In his essay, Serpico never mentions Cleveland. But he could easily be talking about our city, which is facing scrutiny from the U.S. Justice Department, the media and the public because of the police department's controversial history of using – and excusing - force on suspects.
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"Today the combination of an excess of deadly force and near-total lack of accountability is more dangerous than ever: Most cops today can pull out their weapons and fire without fear that anything will happen to them, even if they shoot someone wrongfully. All a police officer has to say is that he believes his life was in danger, and he's typically absolved. What do you think that does to their psychology as they patrol the streets—this sense of invulnerability?"
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This is the line I found most chilling: "In the NYPD, it used to be you'd fire two shots and then you would assess the situation. You didn't go off like a madman and empty your magazine and reload."
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Nov 28, 2014 - 09:47am PT
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The Chief posted Fking NRA... it is all their fault that all them damn bastards below [Founding Fathers] were allowed all them guns.
Things the Founding Fathers allowed:
-Slavery of African Americans
-Slavery of women in all but name
-Duels
-Child labor
-Genocide
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Nov 28, 2014 - 11:46am PT
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This thread was getting tedious.
The name-calling started and now it's getting even more tedious.
I'm heading over to dark town and any of you other old whey-faced white guys wanna come?
I'm only gonna check out the website for black climbers, though...so be warned, it could be tedious, also.
"Mutha."
"Yo mama."
"Mutha-in-law."
"Yo sistah."
"Yo, mutha, sup?"
"Gun sh#t, again."
"Aw, sh#t, boring. Fie-nine, les' go to de cawfee shop."
"The one on Madison?"
"Lincoln."
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujň de la Playa
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Nov 28, 2014 - 02:23pm PT
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Exactamundo Roger. It's [not] funny how folks overlook important details when drawing their unwarranted conclusions.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Nov 28, 2014 - 03:20pm PT
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This week sucked. I'm feeling bad and afraid to have my child leave my sight. It's hard to keep it in perspective. Hope you all are feeling better than me!
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Nov 28, 2014 - 08:54pm PT
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You forgot about the part of the 911 caller saying the gun was probably a toy and the person a juvenile.
That information was not forwarded to the police.
The police were told that someone was pointing a gun at people.
The kid went for his gun when then police arrived.
BOOM!
End of story.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Nov 28, 2014 - 09:16pm PT
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Unfortunate series of events with clear mistakes on all sides. We could argue about those all day.
But ultimately the root cause lies with the 12 year old making the choice to point a firearm (fake or otherwise) at people and/or things in a public place.
Same thing would have happened had he pointed that firearm at an armed citizen who felt threatened.
Hug your own kids and teach them well...
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Nov 28, 2014 - 09:33pm PT
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But ultimately the root cause lies with the 12 year old making the choice to point a firearm (fake or otherwise) at people and/or things in a public place. Bullsh#t. Your picking a place in time and deciding on your own that's the root cause. I could just as easily say the root cause is that we have firearms in our society, and be just as, or more correct.
The fact is the police acted too quickly. They're saying they said 3 times to show his hands. Does anyone watching the video believe the police said that three times before shooting?
I'm not saying the police were racially motivated.
I'm not saying the police acted out of malice or hatred.
I am saying they are responsible for an honest mistake and hope they admit to it and make changes to their protocol that others will follow.
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