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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 27, 2014 - 06:44am PT
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Perhaps the toy guns should purposefully be made to look unmistakably like toys, or come with a warning of the many lethal instances where they were mistaken for the real McCoy.
I would also suggest that the cops have a few less heavy weapons and armored vehicles lest they mistake their surroundings as a war zone where many mistakes are made in the heat of battle.
This case raises genuine issues, the Ferguson didn't as lethal force was absolutely justified.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 27, 2014 - 07:14am PT
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Mr Breedlove writes:
"Ohio has an open carry gun law."
He wasn't shot for carrying a gun. He was shot for brandishing a gun. Don't ever do that when cops are around.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Nov 27, 2014 - 07:18am PT
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I disagree Chaz, the dead people appeared to be armed and brandishing a weapon. In fact, none were armed. In the cases I cite, I think the police were trigger happy. They are armed, trained, and as far as I know wearing bullet proof vests, capable of protecting themselves, and in these cases capable of protecting the public.
Their supervisors should train them to take a deep breath. With an open carry law, they need to take two deep breaths.
As to your advice, police in a civilized society should be held to high level of restraint, not the other way around. Lots of local police, state police and certainty the military, show restraint. They view it as part of their job and take pride in doing so. Look at the difference between the initial response of the Ferguson local police and the state troopers the Governor called in.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Nov 27, 2014 - 07:50am PT
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^^^
Amen.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Nov 27, 2014 - 08:29am PT
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I'm seeing myself as a twelve-year-old and having running "gun battles" with the others in the hood.
And the cops pull up and it's a mass execution.
"Cap pistols, officers!"
"My new Mattel Fanner Fifty, sir!"
"Peacemaker, Sgt. Friday!"
And we all go down together...
and then there was the shooting in Sonora last Saturday night.
http://www.kcra.com/news/witness-gunshots-flew-by-windows-during-sonora-shootout/29913922
A really large difference in the police response, where the last police shooting was years ago.
Who lives in Sonora? Lots of people with access to hunting, therefore many rifles.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Nov 27, 2014 - 08:39am PT
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Is there any male out there who did not play 'war' or 'cops and robbers' or 'soldiers' or whatever as a little kid???
In my upscale suburban white neighborhood, kids played with fake guns (both real looking and super fake looking) in the middle of the streets. We took cover behind neighbors hedges, we ran around screaming, we 'brandished'.
No neighbor ever called the cops on us. Even though at times there were 8-10 kids running around with fake guns. Some of the kids were not even from the neighborhood. All however were white....
Is this data driven evidence? No, but most of you probably have similar stories.
Edit
Hell we played these games at local parks where there were people there who did not know us!
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 27, 2014 - 09:28am PT
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I have seen kids (teens) running around the neighborhood plinking each other with those airsoft rifles. Of course they were white so they were safe from getting capped by a cop, and I mean that seriously. It always makes me nervous that there will be a "mistake" with law enforcement. I talk to my son about it. He love toy guns, it is in little boys DNA I think.
I am really glad to see young people get riled up about a social issue, even if it clogs the freeways. I hope they now get out and vote.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Nov 27, 2014 - 09:34am PT
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He love toy guns, it is in little boys DNA I think.
In a 'American' boys DNA maybe. When you grow up in a pro gun culture, you like to play with them.
EDIT: I wonder what young males do in Europe where there are relatively few guns, and the pro gun culture is absent. Do they play cops and robbers and use fake guns? Serious question.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Nov 27, 2014 - 09:35am PT
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Sorry Jon,, but OBAMA IS the gun salesman of the millennium. I know,, its my job
You say this alot, but is never true.
It is the scare tatics of the Republicans that is leading to the increased sales. They're still using the 'they want to take all our guns away' fear mongering mantra.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 27, 2014 - 09:57am PT
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It ain't the first time, and it probably won't be the last...
TEEN DEATH SPARKS DEBATE OVER BB GUN FLUORESCENT MARKING MANDATE
by MICHELLE MOONS 30 Aug 2014
"The accidental shooting death of Santa Rosa teen Andy Lopez, has been cited by Democrat legislators as the catalyst in the creation of Senate Bill 199. SB199 is a new piece of California Legislation that would require specific types of airsoft guns to display “fluorescent coloration over the entire trigger guard and a fluorescent adhesive band on the airsoft gun prior to sale to a customer, as specified.”
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-California/2014/08/30/Teen-Death-In-Passing-BB-Gun-Fluorescent-Marking-Law
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crankster
Trad climber
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Nov 27, 2014 - 10:00am PT
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. Our govt has slowly been turning tyrannical.
And now we have the skinhead militia view. Thanks.
Now, back to the tragedy in Cleveland.
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okie
Trad climber
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Nov 27, 2014 - 10:17am PT
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The cops claim that they told him to put his hands up but if you watch the video and try to say that sentence in the amount of time between the patrol car's arrival and the shot being fired I don't think you can.
The kid does appear to be attempting to draw his "weapon." The rookie cop actually panicked. He shot and then recoiled towards the back of the car and fell down. Then he cowered behind the car while his partner dealt with the situation.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 27, 2014 - 10:31am PT
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Yeah, well, the terrorist organization you belong to (NRA) has been fighting it, using the rationale that criminals could simply paint their AK's pink or blue to fool the cops.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Nov 27, 2014 - 10:49am PT
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Nope, it IS true. Our govt has slowly been turning tyrannical.
Yes, more fear.
Thanks for cementing my point.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 27, 2014 - 10:54am PT
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Yeah, well, I am not anti-gun, by any stretch of the definition.
It's hard to find a more 'tyrannical' influence on American politics than the NRA.
And how the f*#k does neon-bb guns equate to substituting legislation for parenting?
Don't give me that sorry-ass slippery slope bullsh#t, either.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 27, 2014 - 11:16am PT
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"BUT, by legislating action against these, all you end up doing is usurping parental guidance. "
That's bullsh#t. By the same argument, there should be no legislation against kids driving cars. Or drinking. Etc.
If you aren't an NRA member, then you sure as f*#k sound like one.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Nov 27, 2014 - 11:44am PT
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Using the framers of the constitution to defend the killing of a kid by a trigger happy cop.
The souless mind of the extreme right on constant display.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 27, 2014 - 12:00pm PT
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Automatically blaming the parents is a great way to deflect attention from the real problem. Really weak sauce, but par for the course
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John M
climber
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Nov 27, 2014 - 12:02pm PT
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I still say the video is not shot at regular speed. Its too hurky jerky..
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 27, 2014 - 12:09pm PT
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What a bunch of fooking bullllshittt.
The 2d amendment is there because back in the day, we had no standing army, and "needed" armed citizens to slaughter Indians and keep the British from re-invading.
Do those conditions exist today?
(Big hint--NO.)
So grow the f*#k up. You don't have some "God-Given" right (newsflash--uzis aren't mentioned in the Bible) to possess whatever firearm makes your midget wiener stand up.
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