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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Nov 20, 2014 - 08:54am PT
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I like how he gets published in the NY Times. Clif couldn't do that with their side, nor could the sum of all their other forgettable athletes doing forgettable things. Clif couldn't send him a role of TP. Hilarious.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 20, 2014 - 08:55am PT
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Werner, it ain't a job, it's welfare for the entitled. As a shareholder I don't want to see my
investment frittered away on useless sh!t.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 20, 2014 - 08:58am PT
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Not in the context I refer to. Some people think Clif Bar is doing the responsible things, others will just feel familiar with the label when they see it. Most of advertising works on a subliminal level.
Don 't get me wrong, i don't use their product and i don't like what they did.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 20, 2014 - 09:07am PT
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Reilly
Like Donini says " Most of advertising works on a subliminal level."
It's still a job.
I know how it is having been around and worked with several sponsored climbers in the past.
You can get easily get killed if you don't have your head screwed on right by being a sponsored climber.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Aurora Colorado
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Nov 20, 2014 - 09:23am PT
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I would have thought this was a fringe issue involving some oddballs, but there it is in the NYT. Jim's right, the publicity will be good for clif bar. Most of their customers aren't climbers, but still have opinions on risk. In general, the more climbing is popularized, the more it will transform into sport climbing and bouldering as more people get into it. That's counterbalanced, though, by Honnold's extreme style.
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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Nov 20, 2014 - 09:29am PT
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David D. and c wilmot, crown bearers of this thread.
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Chris Wegener
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Nov 20, 2014 - 10:50am PT
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But the point everyone seems to be overlooking is Alex *isn't* doing it for himself. He is doing it for the people that are filming it so that others can see him doing it.
I appreciate that when he is climbing he is in his own world, as we all are but he is still doing the soloing for public consumption because it gets him money.
I have no problem with climbers who solo, though I personally find it fool hardy because to the ultimate finality of any mistakes, but it is a personal choice.
However free soloing for the camera is a public performance and has no greater value than anyone else going to work.
Regards,
Chris
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Nov 20, 2014 - 11:22am PT
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But the point everyone seems to be overlooking is Alex *isn't* doing it for himself. He is doing it for the people that are filming it so that others can see him doing it.
I appreciate that when he is climbing he is in his own world, as we all are but he is still doing the soloing for public consumption because it gets him money.
I have no problem with climbers who solo, though I personally find it fool hardy because to the ultimate finality of any mistakes, but it is a personal choice.
However free soloing for the camera is a public performance and has no greater value than anyone else going to work.
Regards,
Chris
That's the conundrum. I sure hope that Alex is doing what he does for himself, with the cameras along for the ride when it suits him. And not the other way round.
Soloing requires ruthless self-honesty and self-awareness. Alex himself is keenly aware of this issue and he surely deals with it every time he stands at the base of a climb, camera crew at the ready.
Perhaps it's impossible to ignore the presence of cameras all the time, but Alex, I think, is way ahead of most of us in his ability to decide what he is comfortable with regardless of outside interests.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Nov 20, 2014 - 11:27am PT
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That's his choice, to free solo for money.
Just like its Clif Bar company's choice, to pay him or not?
DMT
Yup.
Just the New York Times' choice to have Alex write for their Opinion pages.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Nov 20, 2014 - 11:31am PT
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Wow, that was a lot of prime OpEd real estate to essentially say nothing.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Nov 20, 2014 - 12:23pm PT
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Thanks good article I like him.
"I draw the lines for myself; sponsors don't have any bearing on my choices"
"Clif bars decision to fire the five of us may limit that freedom."
"If sponsors back away from risky behaviors, it may slowly mold climbing into a safer, more sterile version of what it is today."
Hard to put it all together. He isn't affected by whether or not they sponsor him - it has no bearing on his choices - but it may limit his options (the effect on him is that he has fewer choices) and it may affect other people and mold climbing into something safer.
We do the best we can to create beliefs that explain our behaviors. When we fall short we try not to notice. What else can we do - we're only humans! Praise Jesus! (Clif Bar sucks) Woof!
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Nov 20, 2014 - 12:29pm PT
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THere is something to the "performance for money" perspective. As a society, we have attempted to put limits on what companies can ask us to do for moeny. Putting aside how practical or how effective these measures may be, we certainly have stemmed a lot of bloodshed in the riskier occupations through such regulation. As a society, we struggle with what we ask our professional athletes to do and the risks they take - the concussion flurry right now, the DEA inspections of NFL locker rooms, etc. Money distorts the perception of risk and reward.
I have conflicting thoughts about the risk and reward balance in climbing. I like making the decision for myself about how much risk I am willing to take, and its damn small. I don't need to impose my equation on others. Y'all may not think of this as on the same planet. But compared to the vast pajroity in this country, they find it unfathomable and insane.
But there is a very mistaken notion that the only risk is personal. I have seen too many climbing areas shut down and regulations imposed because someone got hurt or died. I don't want to ruin the opportunity for others to climb because I wanted to explore my boundaries. It may not be convenient, but pusing boundaries may be best done where it doesn't imperil access to climbing for others.
Alex has talent and doesn't have a wife and kids to take care of. His calculus may change if his life's circumstances change. I won't think less of him if he chooses a different path later in life.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Aurora Colorado
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Nov 20, 2014 - 12:42pm PT
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If you're going to risk your life for money, do something useful and go to Africa to work in an Ebola clinic. Although I think that's too simple, and the money is probably not a big factor. I'd guess the fame and respect is a much more powerful draw. The only good reason, as many have said, you could call spiritual or personal development.
I remember an interview with a rock guitarist, can't remember who it was, who said he felt like a circus clown on stage. It was creative and amazing at first, then he realized his job was not entirely fulfilling. When that happens, its never too late to start something new.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Nov 20, 2014 - 12:48pm PT
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If sponsors back away from risky behaviors, it may well slowly mold climbing into a safer, more sterile version of what it is today. But I tend to think that whether sponsors support such behavior or not shouldn’t really have any bearing on our motivations.
+1. If you solo (or even climb in the first place) to impress the sponsors or the public, you should think about it a few more times.
I wonder how much $ was actually awarded to these athletes? Or was it all you can eat Clif bars and no check?
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Nov 20, 2014 - 01:54pm PT
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I thought it was a well written piece. Not sure why some thought it somewhat vacuous. In short, he was simply affirming Clif Bars right to withdraw his sponsorship, but remind others that he climbed what and how he did for personal reasons, not because he was paid to. What the big deal?
Like others have pointed out, I found the comments interesting, like the person who dismissed it as "stunt" climbing or the guy from Texas who criticized him because, to paragraph, mountaineers pick the best "rout" to the top, not the hardest. Remarkable how people are happy to voice their opinions about matters they know absolutely nothing about.
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Slabby D
Trad climber
B'ham WA
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Nov 20, 2014 - 02:20pm PT
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Nice article, though it certainly could have been condensed to "It's all good..."
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dugillian
Trad climber
Vancouver
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Nov 20, 2014 - 02:24pm PT
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Whoopy dee doo.....Climbers selling crap...The World does not need more crap to eat or buy....NY Times must be desperate for real news stories? If they need filler like this they may as well become FOX News.
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Peter
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Nov 20, 2014 - 02:26pm PT
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There's another way of looking at it than Clif giving Honnold a paycheck to climb/take risks.
Like Honnold says, he would climb/solo anyway.
Clif used images of Honnold and Honnold's image for marketing purposes, and pays Honnold for the privilege.
Now Clif has calculated that associating the brand with (risky) climbing is a poor (marketing) decision, which is up to them.
Just like they keep making the same decision not to pay me to associate themselves with my image.
And, Alex keeps on climbing.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Nov 20, 2014 - 03:03pm PT
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Nice writing, Alex! See you on the bridge in the spring, eh?
Cheers, mate
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 20, 2014 - 03:28pm PT
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It's a double-edge sword and Dean gets it exactly right - you simply can't merchandise climbing as just another risk-free, pop-suburban entertainment option which generates revenue streams without dragging the whole of it down to a lowest-common-denominator perception of '[socially] acceptable risk' inherent in that unsavory bargain. You can't have it both ways. It's like selling your virginity and hoping against hope that you'll still be a virgin in the morning. Duh...
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